Seeds (thig le) in Tibetan perception theory vs. MCTB formations

neko, modified 8 Years ago at 1/7/16 9:26 AM
Created 8 Years ago at 1/7/16 9:26 AM

Seeds (thig le) in Tibetan perception theory vs. MCTB formations

Posts: 762 Join Date: 11/26/14 Recent Posts
I am reading Daniel Brown's Pointing Out the Great Way and I have come across this definition of a "seed" which reminds me very closely of Daniel's definition of formations / sankharas in MCTB

Seeds (thig le) are the most common type of aggregated simple appearance used in concentration training. A seed is a highly condensed perceptual event. In its simplest absorbed (bsdu ba'i thig le) form a seed is largely undifferentiated. A seed no longer pertains to a single sense modality like a visual form, but has "condensed the six sense  systems into one" (Rangjung Dorje, the Third Karmapa. A Practical Manual forthe Simultaneous School of Mahamudra). A seed is the pool of sensory information occurring prior to the occurrence of a specific perception. A seed condenses all potential phenomena of samsara and nirvana within it. If it were thoroughly analyzed, the practitioner would find the seed ultimately to be the essential nature (rang bzhin) of all phenomena, namely space. Yet, just as something seems to arise from nothing, specific appearances come forth from a seed.

There seems to be a crucial difference, however, seeds seem to be kind of a blob of "undifferentiated" proto-perceptions before they are "interpreted" by the mind into actual perceptions, whereas an MCTB formation is a "fully formed" event in which coarse-level perceptions are merged into one synaesthetic whole. So it looks like a seed is the raw version of a formation, before it is elaborated by the mind into something "intelligible", so to speak.

(Or, rather, referring to the Tibetan classification of the mind in "coarse, subtle, very subtle" layers, a seed might be the subtle layer equivalent of formations, which might be coarse layer.)

It is also interesting that they are discussed in the context of shamatha and not of vipashyana.

Any thoughts on this?
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tom moylan, modified 8 Years ago at 1/8/16 7:40 AM
Created 8 Years ago at 1/8/16 7:40 AM

RE: Seeds (thig le) in Tibetan perception theory vs. MCTB formations

Posts: 896 Join Date: 3/7/11 Recent Posts
hey neko,
excellent.  i don't see any problematic differences between the MCTB descriptions of formations and this thig-le description and believe they are pointing to the same pre-perceptual phenomena.

i got to this post by following the other discussion you are currently having with pawel.

following with bated breath.

tom

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