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Enlightenment
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1/7/16 11:35 PM
What is after illumination? To dead?

What will be the purpose of life if it's all an illusion?

become vampire?

RE: Enlightenment
Answer
1/8/16 4:14 AM as a reply to Sebastian Rocha.
Sebastian Rocha:
What will be the purpose of life if it's all an illusion?

Who says that all of life is an illusion? 



Sebastian Rocha:
What is after illumination? 

Meditate and see for yourself.

RE: Enlightenment
Answer
1/8/16 10:07 AM as a reply to neko.
What's real in a dream?

RE: Enlightenment
Answer
1/8/16 10:31 AM as a reply to Sebastian Rocha.
Sebastian Rocha:
What's real in a dream?
There is a common assumption that dreams have no use or value, that little can be learned from them, and that they aren't 'real.'  IMO, dreams and physical experience are indicative and symbolic of current mental and energetic processing, activities which ARE real.  Even a hologram exists as a side effect of various processes and a hologram also influences people.  When people say a hologram is not real, they are more accurately saying it is not what it might appear to be on the surface.  To say something is not 'real,' IMO is not accurate, if you perceive something, it has some reality in some way.  More accurately, we might say that we probably hold many false assumptions about the nature and stability of both dreams and conscious waking reality and that IMO they are more similar than most people tend to assume. 
-Eva

RE: Enlightenment
Answer
1/8/16 11:25 AM as a reply to Sebastian Rocha.
Sebastian Rocha:
What's real in a dream?
To get to work in the morning, do you walk out of the front door, or through the window on the second floor?

RE: Enlightenment
Answer
1/9/16 12:30 AM as a reply to neko.
neko:
Sebastian Rocha:
What's real in a dream?
To get to work in the morning, do you walk out of the front door, or through the window on the second floor?

In lots of dreams, i walk out the front door, because I don't realize it is a dream and I think I am confined to the rules and assumptions that I carry in my mind at the time.  In such a dream, as long as I hold such assumptions, I will not fly but instead I will walk.  In order to do something, at some level you must understand that you are capable of it, that holds true in dreams as well.  You can only do the novel new things when you realize that they are possible. 

However, to add to the argument, many believe that Earth life is in part like a dream but in part like a video game in that there are pre agreed on limitations and rules to the game and that manifestations will usually align with the assumptions and beliefs of those around you which create limitations of what can manifest, along also with the hefty beast known as self doubt which will follow you even when no one else is looking.  Such that you may not be able to fly out the window but you may get a hoverboard soon that will allow it after all.  Ironically I just saw an article about using magnetic fields to creat antigrav.  ;-P 
-Eva

RE: Enlightenment
Answer
1/9/16 3:55 AM as a reply to Eva Nie.
So as you say, the mind when sleeping think is real and send signal to the body being unconscious of that, then only conscience is "real" being relative because it has no time or place.

The mind depends on conscience and it's only a interpretation of external factors as the body senses meaning only external is the real, is it what it's outside of me the real me?

RE: Enlightenment
Answer
1/9/16 4:00 AM as a reply to neko.
So you say the "work" is real? Work meaning as what? Physical entity ? It's not that is just a concept 

RE: Enlightenment
Answer
1/9/16 4:09 AM as a reply to Eva Nie.
Well it's relative as you say, what we think is true it depends on how you want to see in our convenience, yes maybe flying personal devices will be available soon and keeps the concept of flying as false, what happened when the believe was that earth was flat, that was the true in that time so nothing has been true since then and before

that's the main question, what's true? 

Laws are not, not even physicals, a lot of information available in quantum physics 
Human laws? We already know the answer

RE: Enlightenment
Answer
1/9/16 7:04 AM as a reply to Sebastian Rocha.
Sebastian Rocha:
So you say the "work" is real? Work meaning as what? Physical entity ? It's not that is just a concept 


Sebastian, the notions of emptiness, impermanence, no-self and so on are epistemic, not ontological. This means: They provide a description of how our senses and minds work, not of how things actually are. Your mistake will lead you on a road of bad philosophy and poor meditation.

RE: Enlightenment
Answer
1/9/16 9:14 AM as a reply to neko.
Perhaps I have read the other side of philosophy the one who wants the answers of identity or being and not the definitions of the external factors. My question was leading to the fact of defining reality since there are external causes that senses interpreted in his own way. All things arise always dependently not by their own, but by depending on conditions leading to their coming into existence, as opposed to being. 

RE: Enlightenment
Answer
1/9/16 3:59 PM as a reply to Sebastian Rocha.
[quote=
]A person who likes to read may read several books at once, maybe one to their child, maybe one for work, maybe one for pleasure, maybe an article in a magazine might also get read in between.  The mind can easily set a book down, read something else, then come back and pick up right where it left off such that in the book, no time passes between putting it down and picking it back up, you are still in the same place and time in the story that you left off.  Each story book has rules as to what is 'real' in that book.  To the characters in one book, they probably can't easily imagine that any other books or characters outside their book are real. 

When we are here 'awake' (to whatever degree we happen to be awake), it seems like only here is real and the dreams are barely remembered, but when we dream, the dream seems real and here is forgotten.  Some dreams seem even more real then here with more intense colors more detailed vision, more amazing scenery, and more intense experiences.  So how to know what is 'real' for sure and what isn't?  Your current beliefs on reality were probably mostly or all due to what your current society taught you but not because your senses have any ability to distingish reality from dreams, whatever current experience is happening is taken as real no matter what that experience is.  Even scientists can't crack it, quantum physics, on which all or perceived reality is apparently built of, is totally wackdoodle and illogical to the extreme, making even dreamlife seem tame in comparison.      
[quote=
Sebastian Rocha]So as you say, the mind when sleeping think is real and send signal to the body being unconscious of that, then only conscience is "real" being relative because it has no time or place.

The mind depends on conscience and it's only a interpretation of external factors as the body senses meaning only external is the real, is it what it's outside of me the real me?

RE: Enlightenment
Answer
1/9/16 4:23 PM as a reply to neko.
neko:


Sebastian, the notions of emptiness, impermanence, no-self and so on are epistemic, not ontological. This means: They provide a description of how our senses and minds work, not of how things actually are. Your mistake will lead you on a road of bad philosophy and poor meditation.

LMAO such dire predictions!  But not all the enlightened agree with any one interpretation of how things are.  The only thing that is agreed on is that the path seems to lead to lessening of suffering eventually.  but people  have used different versions of interpretations to reach enlightenment, it's not like any one group clarly corners the market on efficiency getting there. 

RE: Enlightenment
Answer
1/14/16 7:06 PM as a reply to Eva Nie.
I do totally agree with you, everything becomes a story and it doesn't matter about the perception since you don't really know what's happening, it's just like watching everything going in the case of "life" you play but not involve in that, like tao says Wei wu wei. 

Its really interesting that all the stories has their own rules so you believe in each one.

RE: Enlightenment
Answer
1/14/16 7:13 PM as a reply to Eva Nie.
Well yes, no one can explain what it has no words, by the enlightened guys I have read is way to different from one to the other so any path it helps in his own way, is a inner path that no matter how long it takes at one point you will be enlightened, it's an deniable destiny. Even to choose any path it's not really effective, because the change its inside of us, the real truth is already in front of us and it's just to open the eyes and find the answers.