Proved Celibacy Method - Discussion
tom moylan:
to be celibate the willpower to do so is paramount and to generate that willpower one would normally have to have a good reason to become celibate.
It takes wisdom & compassion rather than will power or intention.
Pablo M+H
IME, 90% of sexual desire comes out of frustration or boredom. Note it every time it happens, and move on.
IME, 90% of sexual desire comes out of frustration or boredom. Note it every time it happens, and move on.
Well said.
Chris Chris Chris:
Can anyone share proved celibacy method whick works? Whatever methods (be mantras, qigong or whatever else)
Have been (joyfully) celibate since 22yo, which was before I discovered Buddhism or any religion. The only method I know is to view sex outside of marrriage as something that is not in the best interests of women.
If you are unable to have such an insight then it probably won't be easy, particularly if desperate feral women & feminists persuade you otherwise. Of course, if you think marriage, children, etc, would be a good thing then that is probably your destiny.
It was an amazing feeling when, through insight, the weight, burden & deluded expectations about sex & women fell off my shoulders at 22yo.
Kind regards
Unchastity is the taint in a woman...Dhammapada 242
'Come now, monks: with regard to women who are old enough to be your mother, establish the attitude you would have toward your mother. With regard to women who are old enough to be your sister, establish the attitude you'd have toward a sister. With regard to women who are young enough to be your daughter, establish the attitude you'd have toward a daughter.' This is one reason, this is one cause, great king, why young monks — black-haired, endowed with the blessings of youth in the first stage of life — without having played with sensual pleasures nevertheless follow the lifelong chaste life, perfect & pure and make it last their entire lives.
Continues with more methods, here: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn35/sn35.127.than.html
Continues with more methods, here: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn35/sn35.127.than.html
Bhikkhus, these two bright principles protect the world. What are the two? Shame and fear of wrongdoing. If, bhikkhus, these two bright principles did not protect the world, there would not be discerned respect for mother or maternal aunt or maternal uncle's wife or a teacher's wife or the wives of other honored persons, and the world would have fallen into promiscuity, as with goats, sheep, chickens, pigs, dogs, and jackals.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an02/an02.009.irel.html
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an02/an02.009.irel.html
: ladyfrog ::
Nicky, we appreciate your concern, but we're cool... you just do you.
-ladyfrog (feminist, wife, mother and oh so desparate feral woman).
-ladyfrog (feminist, wife, mother and oh so desparate feral woman).
Couldn't keep away from the liberated male domain, could you?
Sounds like being: (1) a feminist; (2) a wife; (3) a mother &; (4) a desparate feral woman isn't enough for you?
The Buddha taught cravings can be endless.
Maybe also become: (5) a New Buddha & have multitudes of male disciples depend on & bow down to you.
Chris Chris Chris:
Laurel Carrington:
Ignorance + misogyny + incomprehensible nonsense aplenty in this brief thread. How about regarding the female half of the species as human, avoiding ridiculous generalizations, and figuring out how to live an authentic life, with integrity. That's my advice.
shargrol:
Chris Chris Chris:
...but do women truly want sex? No.
!?
smbc guy clears up your confusion:
http://smbc-comics.com/index.php?id=4015Unchastity is the taint in a woman...Dhammapada 242 |
Noah:
I vote for the
moderators to step in here. The sexist stuff in this thread has gotten a
little absurd over the past few hours. This message board has
progressed quite a bit over the past year in terms of cleaning up some
of this sort of content, and we should do our best to maintain this.
I vote for the
moderators to step in here. The sexist stuff in this thread has gotten a
little absurd over the past few hours. This message board has
progressed quite a bit over the past year in terms of cleaning up some
of this sort of content, and we should do our best to maintain this.
Now excuse me, gotta go find some feral desperate women (:
bernd the broter:
Apart from Nicky's unexplained assertion that extramarital sex is somehow not in women's best interest, I see nothing that should be a cause of worry.
Every spiritual leader, be they Moses, Buddha, Jesus or Muhammad, did not encourage or praise extramarital sex.
That is why they were free, including free from worry.
Keep in mind, this thread is about proven methods.
bernd the broter
In "Arahattamagga", Ajahn Maha Boowa describes his path to complete celibacy, (as in: no sexual desire any more at all) based on body contemplation. That seems to be pretty much the only method that the Buddhist tradition has preserved for this purpose.
In "Arahattamagga", Ajahn Maha Boowa describes his path to complete celibacy, (as in: no sexual desire any more at all) based on body contemplation. That seems to be pretty much the only method that the Buddhist tradition has preserved for this purpose.
I already quoted the scriptures. The Buddha prescribed at least 3 methods, including viewing all women as 'mothers'. Body contemplation is the 2nd or backup method. Those with appropriate wisdom & compassion do not require it.
Since I suddenly became celibate, I have never not been surrounded by women. Just returned from an evening with two women. No sweat. No body contemplation required.
Btw, I was once informed that in the Buddhist scripture or commentaries, there is a story about a monk who was meditating upon a corpse and sexual lust arose towards the corpse.
The quote below shows Ajahn Buddhadasa did not share the same view as Ajahn Maha Boowa.
Often people teach to way to remove lust is to contemplate repulsive, ugly and loathsome things. So it is often advised to people with a lot of lust to go to a cremation ground or mortuary to contemplate the corpses or the remains of corpses. To contemplate these various quite unattractive and repulsive things are traditional techniques for lessening lust.
That is right in its own way, it is correct, it can help, but the most efficient and powerful way to remove lust is to remove selfishness.
However even going to the cremation ground or mortuary, if that includes any selfishness, still there will be kinds of lust, there will be some lust remaining.
So the best way to eliminate lust is to eliminate selfishness.
If you want to contemplate corpses or other unattractive and repulsive things to help to removing of selfishness that would be a good idea, bit the essential thing is to remove selfishness. By removing selfishness there is nothing upon which lust can stand. Selfishness is the basis or the foundation of lust. If we take away that basis there can be no lust .
This is the best way to be free of lust. To be free of selfishness.
Bhikkhu Buddhadasa 5 September 1987
That is right in its own way, it is correct, it can help, but the most efficient and powerful way to remove lust is to remove selfishness.
However even going to the cremation ground or mortuary, if that includes any selfishness, still there will be kinds of lust, there will be some lust remaining.
So the best way to eliminate lust is to eliminate selfishness.
If you want to contemplate corpses or other unattractive and repulsive things to help to removing of selfishness that would be a good idea, bit the essential thing is to remove selfishness. By removing selfishness there is nothing upon which lust can stand. Selfishness is the basis or the foundation of lust. If we take away that basis there can be no lust .
This is the best way to be free of lust. To be free of selfishness.
Bhikkhu Buddhadasa 5 September 1987
neko:
Nicky:
Every spiritual leader, be they Moses, Buddha, Jesus or Muhammad, did not encourage or praise extramarital sex.
Muhammad had sex slaves and permitted, even encouraged, his followers to do the same.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_views_on_slavery
The Koran states when there a widows from (enemy) men killed in war, Muslim men should consider marrying them. That said, I doubt Islam can help much with celibacy, since Islam does not encourage celibacy.
If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.
And whoever among you has not within his power ampleness of means to marry free believing women, then (he may marry) of those whom your right hands possess from among your believing maidens; and Allah knows best your faith: you are (sprung) the one from the other;
...give them of the wealth of Allah which He has given you; and do not compel your slave girls to prostitution, when they desire to keep chaste
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma_malakat_aymanukum
And whoever among you has not within his power ampleness of means to marry free believing women, then (he may marry) of those whom your right hands possess from among your believing maidens; and Allah knows best your faith: you are (sprung) the one from the other;
...give them of the wealth of Allah which He has given you; and do not compel your slave girls to prostitution, when they desire to keep chaste
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma_malakat_aymanukum
Nicky:
I doubt Islam can help much with celibacy, since Islam does not encourage celibacy.
So, yeah, we agree that Muhammad is not necessarily the best religious figure to look up to when it comes to celibacy
re: neko (5/11/16 8:19 AM as a reply to neko)
On a lighter note (perhaps)… way back I ran across on some website / discussion group / blog or whatever (paraphrasing):
"Once the Buddha confided to his randy[the source was from in the UK] cousin Ananda: 'You know, Ananda, if there had been another hindrance as difficult as my sexuality, I really don't know if I could have made it .' "
On a lighter note (perhaps)… way back I ran across on some website / discussion group / blog or whatever (paraphrasing):
"Once the Buddha confided to his randy[the source was from in the UK] cousin Ananda: 'You know, Ananda, if there had been another hindrance as difficult as my sexuality, I really don't know if I could have made it .' "
Nicky:
bernd the broter:
Apart from Nicky's unexplained assertion that extramarital sex is somehow not in women's best interest, I see nothing that should be a cause of worry.
Every spiritual leader, be they Moses, Buddha, Jesus or Muhammad, did not encourage or praise extramarital sex.
That is why they were free, including free from worry.
Keep in mind, this thread is about proven methods.
bernd the broter
In "Arahattamagga", Ajahn Maha Boowa describes his path to complete celibacy, (as in: no sexual desire any more at all) based on body contemplation. That seems to be pretty much the only method that the Buddhist tradition has preserved for this purpose.
In "Arahattamagga", Ajahn Maha Boowa describes his path to complete celibacy, (as in: no sexual desire any more at all) based on body contemplation. That seems to be pretty much the only method that the Buddhist tradition has preserved for this purpose.
I already quoted the scriptures. The Buddha prescribed at least 3 methods, including viewing all women as 'mothers'. Body contemplation is the 2nd or backup method. Those with appropriate wisdom & compassion do not require it.
Since I suddenly became celibate, I have never not been surrounded by women. Just returned from an evening with two women. No sweat. No body contemplation required.
The quote below shows Ajahn Buddhadasa did not share the same view as Ajahn Maha Boowa.
@bernd the broter
I cannot speak for Bhikkhu Buddhadasa but my interpretation is there is a significant element of sexual objectification going on with the hindrance of lust. In a sexual fantasy, the mind is generally sexually objectifying another person, without any compassionate regard for their feelings or long-term welfare. This is selfishness.
As for contraception, are you really sure this is bringing sexual Nirvana to the world?
Regards
I cannot speak for Bhikkhu Buddhadasa but my interpretation is there is a significant element of sexual objectification going on with the hindrance of lust. In a sexual fantasy, the mind is generally sexually objectifying another person, without any compassionate regard for their feelings or long-term welfare. This is selfishness.
As for contraception, are you really sure this is bringing sexual Nirvana to the world?
Regards
Sexual objectification is the act of treating a person as an instrument of sexual pleasure. Objectification more broadly means treating a person as a commodity or an object without regard to their personality or dignity.
The concept of sexual objectification and, in particular, the objectification of women, is an important idea in feminist theory and psychological theories derived from feminism. Many feminists regard sexual objectification as deplorable and as playing an important role in gender inequality. However, some social commentators argue that some modern women objectify themselves as an expression of their empowerment.
The concept of sexual objectification and, in particular, the objectification of women, is an important idea in feminist theory and psychological theories derived from feminism. Many feminists regard sexual objectification as deplorable and as playing an important role in gender inequality. However, some social commentators argue that some modern women objectify themselves as an expression of their empowerment.
shargrol:
Using celibacy as a training method can be very helpful, but remember the important thing is the training,
not whether vows are always held 100% perfectly.
Celibacy is not a 'training method'. It is a way of life.
The Buddha used the word 'brahmacharya' for the 'holy life', which in Hinduism refers to celibacy.
shargrol
Yes, but do women truly want sex? No.
Yes, but do women truly want sex? No.
My interpretation of the above statement was women truely want committed relationships, marriage, children, family, etc, rather than mere sex. I found nothing controversial about it, from a spiritual perspective.
In my proven experince, it transforms or matures the sexual (love) instinct into real compassion.
Chris Chris Chris:
Wow, you guys are nuts. It's clearly what topic is about but you trying to pursue your personal crazy-minds agenda here. Obviously that's why genuine spiritual practitioners should stay out the forums so I'm going from this place. You guys have problems with yourself, really - and this kind of discussion will only exaggerate them.
You should work on your anger issues first before tackling the celibacy challenge.