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Tibetan fun Rednaxela 4/5/17 3:36 PM
RE: Kadampa disaster - Spritual flame Nicky 5/11/16 6:24 AM
RE: Kadampa disaster - Spritual flame svmonk 5/11/16 2:43 PM
RE: Kadampa disaster - Spritual flame bernd the broter 5/12/16 3:37 AM
RE: Kadampa disaster - Spritual flame tom moylan 5/12/16 9:05 AM
RE: Kadampa disaster - Spritual flame Robert 5/13/16 12:46 AM
RE: Kadampa disaster - Spritual flame Robert 5/13/16 2:31 AM
RE: Kadampa disaster - Spritual flame Robert 5/14/16 11:59 AM
RE: Kadampa disaster - Spritual flame Robert 5/14/16 12:05 PM
RE: Kadampa disaster - Spritual flame Matthew 9/7/16 9:37 AM
RE: Kadampa disaster - Spritual flame bernd the broter 9/23/16 5:20 AM
RE: Kadampa disaster - Spritual flame bernd the broter 3/9/17 7:45 AM
RE: Kadampa disaster - Spritual flame Rednaxela 10/12/16 2:30 PM
RE: Kadampa disaster - Spritual flame Rednaxela 12/5/16 8:01 AM
RE: Kadampa disaster - Spritual flame Rednaxela 11/7/16 7:50 AM
RE: Kadampa disaster - Spritual flame Matthew 11/29/16 8:40 PM
RE: Kadampa disaster - Spritual flame Rednaxela 11/30/16 8:44 AM
RE: Kadampa disaster - Spritual flame Supreme Maharishi Bhumi 1000 1/10/17 7:55 AM
RE: Kadampa disaster - Spritual flame Rednaxela 12/5/16 7:58 AM
RE: Kadampa disaster - Spritual flame Rednaxela 3/29/17 3:41 PM
RE: Kadampa disaster - Spritual flame Daniel M. Ingram 4/4/17 12:35 AM
RE: Kadampa disaster - Spritual flame Rednaxela 4/5/17 3:34 PM
RE: Kadampa disaster - Spritual flame Gunnar Johansson 4/4/17 10:04 AM
RE: Kadampa disaster - Spritual flame Rednaxela 4/5/17 3:16 PM
RE: Kadampa disaster - Spritual flame Monsoon Frog 4/20/17 11:04 PM
RE: Kadampa disaster - Spritual flame Rednaxela 4/24/17 9:21 AM
Tibetan fun
4/5/17 3:36 PM
My wife experienced overpowering emotions at a Giving & Taking retreat at the Kadampa Meditation Center Canada in Toronto in early May which led to a confused state of attachment. The Centre provided insufficient support to us in the ensuing drama and refused to acknowledge that a charismatic teacher could be implicated. We had previously both been customers of the Centre, attending a number of its Sunday talks with our young daughters in the winter and spring of 2016.

my wife mostly denied any physical infidelity though has said things like "i was never unfaithful before i met xxx," and there was definitely emotional betrayal. The retreat finished at 11am on a Sunday morning and thought the centre is no more than approx. 1hr. from the centre, she was out of contact until 6pm when i found her sitting in a car in the driveway, holding her head in her hands. I asked how the retreat ended and she said, "badly."
That night, as I was driving my mother home ~30miles to the opposite of the city, she called frantically: " I know, [he's] my child from a former lifetime." She was much too excited and called me again as i took the return drive from my mother's place then later, as we talked about the story and wondered if she's acheived some state of awakening. Hours later she was desperate to leave me and our girls and reunite with the good-looking teacher.

I was initially accepting of her fantasies and ideas then realized that the family was being torn apart. So i told her not to go, got jealous and a tad upset. In the following weeks she continued to want to leave us to be with him, her true love. we have been intimated four times since May and she told me she felt like she was cheating on the teacher in questions. After two of the occasions, my wife screamed that it would never happen again. One occasion, four days after the retreat, after speacking to my Zen teacher and believeing Kadampa was a cult, she fled the next day with our young daughers and was missing for three days. On the four occasion in August, she seemed accepting however we seemed to be bonding on the idea that we were looking to buy a cottage together. My wife has descirbed feelings of revulsion to the idea of being dirty by being with me and untrue to her new love. Ugh.

to make matters worse, i have had email communications with this teacher's ex who describes him an a narcissitic psychopath. she is said to have lived with him for a year and suffered from emotional and psychological abuse from which it was difficult to pull herself. friends of hers (related to a band called the Operators) have a post on their facebook page, warning of this teacher. the ex-girlfiend says he has an intense workout regime of "250s", whereby he rusn an hour a day and does 250 pushups, situps, etc. she seems a legitimate person who writes poetry and has a large following on her blogpost. she also has legitimate loving family (i accidentally friended her father and facebook then had conversation with him).

My wife told me about feelings of "unconditional" love toward the teacher, that they had talked many times over the retreat. He had alternated between being loving and nasty, upseting her emotional well-being. My wife researched this and discovered that this mirrors a seductive technique called fractionation.

Teacher Christine Reeves said she appreciated a question I put to her on a Sunday in mid-May, days after being initially separated from my family and unclear of their whereabouts. "Just thank them," she counselled.

The Centre's Administrative Director Kelly Loeffelman later sent me an email asking that I not return to the KMCC as i had brought up "marital problems in a public class."

RE: Kadampa disaster - Spritual flame
5/11/16 6:24 AM as a reply to Rednaxela.
Heavy & frightening situation. 

Visit the centre to speak to the resident monk and the culprit. 

NKT do have a reputation & obviously the methods for recruiting spiritually immature people into their leadership ranks, which is why, in England, two consecutive Western heirs to Geshe La were involved in sex scandals. 

Wishing you, your wife, your children & family the best. 


RE: Kadampa disaster - Spritual flame
5/11/16 2:43 PM as a reply to Rednaxela.
Hi Alex,

It may be that after a month or so, the intense emotions coming out of the retreat will fade and she will realize that her desire to leave you and take up with her teacher is a delusion. However, I think you could help things along by encouraging her to see a psychotherapist alone, and you both might want to arrange some sessions of joint marriage counsuling, preferably both with therapists that have some experience with meditation. If she has a good friend that she trusts, you might encourage her to spend some time with her friend. Also, you can try to show your appreciation for her, though depending on how strong her emotions are, she may or may not notice. You could also suggest to her that she might want to wait 6 months or so before making any drastic changes in her life, this is advice that I've heard from many teachers I respect about how to handle the after effects of a particularly intense retreat. I don't know how good your relationship was before she went on the retreat, so it is hard to say whether she would respond to any of these suggestions.

Since I don't know the teacher, I can't say whether or not he encouraged your wife to develop these feelings, and whether he would respond to your attempts to communicate with him.

Hope things work out.

RE: Kadampa disaster - Spritual flame
5/12/16 3:37 AM as a reply to Rednaxela.
I hesitate to sound all red-pill, but in this case it may be appropriate:

Prepare for the worst.
1) It sounds like your wife just went full retard. It wouldn't be the first case of a woman running away for someone she perceives as higher status and more fun.
2) You heard from two different sources that this place is a cult. You contact them over a very serious issue that might break up your family and they don't respond? Seriously?

You want to do the following in any case:
Record your conversations. Document her behaviour. Collect evidence about your good relations with your daughters.
In the worst case you may not be able to prevent her from leaving and trying to take your kids/money with her.
You should be prepared.

RE: Kadampa disaster - Spritual flame
5/12/16 9:05 AM as a reply to bernd the broter.
Seriously solid advice Bernd.

RE: Kadampa disaster - Spritual flame
5/13/16 12:46 AM as a reply to tom moylan.
Alex L:

Can someone help me by talking some sense into me?

I have no affiliation with the center or with any of those people so this is not coming from a biased view. Anyway, your real problem seems to be the tendency for the apparent mind to project a lot of stuff to feed the deluded fears, and then feel righteous about it. This is one way how the ego maintains its sense of solidity. That's what the mind does; invents stuff and then believes its own imagination (only apparently though, the ego is just a robotic mechanistic functioning in a way). You should deal with yourself first and foremost and start questioning whether clinging to the thought made hell has any actual benefit in it. And in the end the reality of that thought made world should be questioned too. That is if there is the willingness to drop the unnecessary suffering and if there's the openess and willingness to be truthful about the real situation here, which is that "These thoughts might not serve me at all, they might actually keep the state of suffering up and are creating havoc around me, mainly in social life but also healthwise probably..  And they might not be anyone's thoughts in the first place. And who is the one having all these apparent problems anyway?".

I didn't address your wife's situation because it's none of my business to get involved with other people's business when they are not asking for it. I shouldn't get involved from a personal standpoint, nor would I want to.

RE: Kadampa disaster - Spritual flame
5/13/16 2:31 AM as a reply to Robert.
Alex L:
thank you Robert!  Lying awake scenario spinning, that's exactly what I needed!  I may have invited that with title NKT disaster 

now I just have to figure how to get the fam back

You might not get the family back together. And if the family gets back together it probably won't be within the timespan that you'd like, and not in your terms necessarily even. And that's fine (but not to the apparent egoic self). The best thing at this point is not to fight but to just relax to the best of your ability (lie down, sit and enjoy, take walks, work but without unnecessary thinking, talk with the family without trying to influence them if they are willing to talk etc.). And to let thoughts go, they can just appear without there being any reactivity in the body to the thoughts.. Personal opinions about "how things should be now and in the future" will only create action that will harm the situation. This is how I see it anyway. I too have personal experience of thoughts creating painful and unhealthy circumstances within the apparent body and the apparent world when the thoughts are being believed somehow. Just to relax and start noticing the thoughts as just thoughts. Keyword being "relaxation" here, and not relaxation with alcohol or something btw.

And there will be reactivity to thoughts in the body in the beginning but if the longing and orientation for truth and real health is there, then there will be a gradual calming down of the thinking mind with apparent ups and downs. And eventually the real joy and wellbeing will start to shine everywhere and also in the apparent body as a felt "sense". And that will be the indicator of a real state of health being the case. That can be instantly evident and felt but usually takes multiple years to start being predominantly evident "most of the time" so to speak. But it requires the absolute commitment to truth and freedom... Anyway, health is all pervading peace and refreshing alive joy, and other apparent people will be benefited from that. They won't be benefited from a personal fight. Unconditional love doesn't want to grasp anything for itself, love just wants good for others without getting anything back. And that has never gone away, only overlooked due to focusing on thoughts and believing them.


Forgot to mention that intense emotions will arise and they can be felt without going in any kind of opinions about them. Not to construct any story that will create a future to be feared or a story that creates a past that is lamented or longed back. Fear of death and madness will come too in forms of panic attacks but those can just be felt too without thoughts. To just let the panic attack kill you or to dissolve you into insanity, that will be the eventual attitude towards it. Not an attitude in confrontative sense but just losing interest in the whole thing. Not fearing the fear. After that the mental health issues will also diminish most probably. It won't be easy to meet the deepest pain though, but if the pain grows large enough the only way to deal with it is to let everything go. And that will happen in its own time. Talking with a therapist wouldn't hurt either.

Btw. don't try to force yourself through a panic attack. When they happen a good mantra would be "It's ok". The panic attack will come again and again and eventually there can be the total disinterest in the mind's stories about it. Btw. experiencing a panic attack with a good therapist could help the situation. That is if it is an issue already, not otherwise. No need to produce them out of thin air.

RE: Kadampa disaster - Spritual flame
5/14/16 11:59 AM as a reply to Robert.
I know that agonising feeling very well, have had some similar situations with women. I can't give any solid advice there. I can only say that sometimes these intense emotions and feelings need to burn and there's not much anything that can be done about them. Not much to do to relieve the emotional pain, just to burn and be in pain for a time. The emotions seem to arise in waves btw. So it most probably won't be intense all the time. There will be periods of calm when the thoughts aren't spinning really fast. And then the mind starts again and spins for a time. The intensity will gradually decrease when there is the intention for consistency in being aware of the thoughts/stories that keep the emotions up and when there's not buying into the thoughts. Talking with someone can help (friend, therapist, wife's mom like you mentioned etc.).

RE: Kadampa disaster - Spritual flame
5/14/16 12:05 PM as a reply to Robert.
And there are some speakers that you might want to listen to. A few that come to mind, whose videos can be found on youtube for example, are Eckhart Tolle, Jeff Foster and Byron Katie. Byron Katie's "The Work" can be effective for the situation. It's freely available online. And there are lots of videos around it.

RE: Kadampa disaster - Spritual flame
9/7/16 9:37 AM as a reply to Rednaxela.
I strongly recommend that you 1) document your wife's behavior including dates and details of what has happened, 2) document how you've responded (e.g. helping them move) and 3) get in touch with a good divorce lawyer. Do not tell your wife that you are doing any of these things.

Given what you've described, it's very possible that your wife will go after your money: you could lose your possessions and end up on the hook for years of alimony payments. You could even lose custody of your children. It isn't un-Buddhist to set reasonable boundaries and protect yourself. It might be hard to do these things when you're struggling with the possibility that the relationship could end, but these steps could save you massive amounts of trouble down the road. 

Also, you might want to look on Yelp for a top-rated therapist or relationship counselor in your area to give you one-on-one advice and help you get some perspective.

RE: Kadampa disaster - Spritual flame
9/23/16 5:20 AM as a reply to Matthew.
person L:
Matthew, this was great advice.  

despite my relative short mariage, my younger wife is going after max. setllement.  seems she planned this and why she agreed to let an older finance guy hang out for a few years.
Welcome to reality. Sounds like you're slowly waking up.
However, she didn't necessarily plan it out like that from the get-go.
It's simply that many (perhaps most?) women get bored by marriage after a few years, and if they lucked out to be with a richer guy, are affected by greed, hate and delusion (sound familiar?) and have the law on their side, what would you expect? Seriously, this stuff is not that complicated. (Feminists, MRA-types and people who enthusiastically mix up the domains of the 3 trainings and get all spiritual elevationist will tell you otherwise. Note how they're all out of their minds.)

she said yest she regrets having our daughters.  does that mean i get custody?
Before, you said that your wife ran away for some weeks and took your daughters with her.
It seems that maybe her words and actions don't align here.

in Canada, divorce is no-fault so even if i prove infidelity it does not matter.  I have to trust in Karma.
Stop thinking that this is somehow a spiritual matter. Stop mixing up the 3 Trainings. Most of this thread is really painful to read. You are a case of really bad boundaries. Matthew is spot on. Get help from a professional. You don't want to lose your daughters, and if you fuck up badly now, this might happen. Some strangers on an internet forum most likely won't be able to help you with this.
 it seem justifiable to attack a religion for seducing its customers, still.
It seems that you conveniently deny that women are not agendaless passive beings without a free will.

RE: Kadampa disaster - Spritual flame
3/9/17 7:45 AM as a reply to bernd the broter.
person L:

Seriously, this stuff is not that complicated. (Feminists, MRA-types and people who enthusiastically mix up the domains of the 3 trainings and get all spiritual elevationist will tell you otherwise. Note how they're all out of their minds.)

Can you upack this?  What are MRA-types?  What are the domains of the three trainings?  Can i fit that into the wikipedia definition, incuding Virtue (speech, lively hood and action), mind (effort, concentration, mindfulness) and Wisdom (view, intention).
People have all sorts of weird ideas. Feminists will blame patriarchy (whatever) for anything. Men's Right Activists (look up the red pill on reddit for a realistic and over-the-top example) will blame women or women's rights for anything. Both of those groups can only maintain their beliefs by blocking out large parts of (obvious!) reality.

The 3 trainings are morality, concentration and wisdom.
The notion that you have to separate them is a highly valuable concept from MCTB.
People who do not understand it will say things like "We can kill people because there is no self anyway" (Some Zen Masters in World War 2) or "Your situation is not bad at all. The real problem is your ego" (Robert some posts above) or "This situation really sucks. I guess the most important thing now is to look at my own greed" (you said something like this before editing your posts). As the old joke goes (which I may have made up), if you walk up to your Vipassana teacher and say "I have a problem with my girlfriend, what should I do?" they will probably say "Just note 'girlfriend angry, girlfriend angry', she will be gone soon enough."

Of course we do hope that spiritual practice helps us to cope better with everything, and it usually does.
Still, if we fail to conceptually separate those trainings, it often results in complete bullshit.

Btw I don't know anything about your personal practice, so this is probably misguided:
But if you have a problem with anger at the moment (wouldn't be surprising) then the Theravadan answer would usually be to practice Metta, or more general, the Brahmaviharas. Some people report that this allows them to sleep better. Of course, this is still very hard to do. This stuff should be taught in kindergarten, not only when we actually need it, because then the challenge can be too much.

RE: Kadampa disaster - Spritual flame
10/12/16 2:30 PM as a reply to bernd the broter.
sorry for deleting prior posts.  i became worried of legal ramifications at some point.

Anyway, thanks for the reminder on the three trainings Bernd.  I remember that concentration needed for wisdom and nothing possible without morality.  I'm big into Metta and agree that it helps.  I'm probably most into Theravada and going on sixth year, lately into Shinzen Young and jhanna pratice too.  i've been an intense meditator at times but have found myself being less regimented about morning sits since i tore my meniscus a year and half ago.

Reading Rational Male which has introduced me to these red pill ideas and i'm enjoying it.  This relationship fell apart when i did everything she wanted, let her control the finances and most everything while i tried not to complain.  But it was never enough nor was i.  i was always told to man up and how weak of a man i was--trust me that most would say i'm far from weak.  Maybe too much of a nice guy.  Have to face her sexual hypergamy and denial of any agency.  

i Hope to not pay too much for this lesson and emerge stronger.  I plan to fight for as much custody as i can but balance that vs. a future single life.  Was praying for an improvement but now copying my lawyer on emails and have just about given up.  looks like i have to be more alpha when the next situation presents itself.

very best,

RE: Kadampa disaster - Spritual flame
12/5/16 8:01 AM as a reply to Rednaxela.
My family has been torn apart.  I continue to be in battle with the organisation.  I am grateful to anyone who can like my google review which is critical of it.,-41.7142614,4z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m3!8m2!3m1!1e1


RE: Kadampa disaster - Spritual flame
11/7/16 7:50 AM as a reply to Rednaxela.
so my wife moved out in September.  We have regulat contact throughout Sept and Oct but last weekend she invited me to sleep on the living room floor so i could be closer to our yound daughers.  The youngest is 2 so she is not allowed to do sleepovers yet.  

it seemed ok but i became more than a bit frustrated on saturday night as i thought about the injustice of the situation.  i laid on the floor and let out a frustruated cry.  from upstairs, i received a text from my wife, saying that it would be bad if the police came.

Anyway, i slept a bit on Saturday night and had somce cusion time Sunday morning.  Feeling ok but completely infatuated with my younger and attractive wife.  unfortunately she has moved on, emotionally at least.  She is aloof, ready to split and receive (generous) spousal support.

i texted her far too much for someone who is in a custody battle and doesn't want to look crazy.

she texts that there is no other guy, that there was no infidelity.  i believe these are both lies.  She has lied to me several times, notably inviting my to live with her before my large dividend cheques are paid out then kicking me out soon after.

i must sound like such a mess.  partly because i am.  I am 46 and fit, able to get another GF, etc.  I work as an investment analyst for a global money manager and currently live with my mother.


RE: Kadampa disaster - Spritual flame
11/29/16 8:40 PM as a reply to Rednaxela.
I'm really sorry to hear about this. It sounds like you've got more of a handle on the situation, but of course it's still painful. Talking to a therapist could be really helpful for dealing with the trauma. 

RE: Kadampa disaster - Spritual flame
11/30/16 8:44 AM as a reply to Matthew.
Thank you Matthew.  I appreciate the empathy.  It's been six months since this all started and threee months since my wife took the girls and moved out.   Going to see lawyer today to finalize financial statements and (probably) start paying child support.  Not that she needs it, she made off with bank accounts that were meant for a house.  She says it is not about her feelings for this meditiation teacher but i no longer believe what she says.

Anyway, since i'm sharing my miserable outcome, i'd like to share that i haven't given up on the meditation practice.  I did experiment with some non denomimantional Christianity for a bit (Harvest) which i found uplifting, mostly because it provide me with good things and surrounded me with positive happy people.  

But am coming back at meditation with renewed vigour and more time.  Committed to spending more time with young people here in Toronto who are committed to the practice.  I've completed in depth courses, spent a day with Shinzen and a course with Harsh Prakesh  Kalsa who works with his system.  

I was in Singapore last week where i found lots of real meditation.  Enjoyed walking through the city, noting me experience.  Felt a lot of clarity using Shinzen-style noting and really soaking into experience, feeling awareness move from my feet, to my ears, to my eyes.  Through an interpreter my first day i talked to Kumarra, a burmese monk trained in Mahasi noting.  He was agreeing that MBMC is a good place to retreat.  That sounds like a plan sometime soon.

I Hope i'm not setting myself up for more future misery but the women in Singapore seem so nice.  there is rampant prostitution but i found most women non promiscuous (with me, anyway).  Of course, my feelings are tinged with some desperation and hope that my wife changes her mind.

And yes, the therapist has been great.  Seeing him weekly and realizing how much i need his guidance.

RE: Kadampa disaster - Spritual flame
1/10/17 7:55 AM as a reply to Rednaxela.
RE: Kadampa disaster - Spritual flame

RE: Kadampa disaster - Spritual flame
12/5/16 7:58 AM as a reply to Supreme Maharishi Bhumi 1000.
Supreme Maharishi Bhumi 1000:
... There is a reason this happened, and you contributed 50% to the situation. GET IT DONE. She plays you like an instrument, and so will everyone else who perceives your weaknesses, as it is not one thing that's wrong, it's many. Whatever it takes, do it.

SMB, I agree and I continue to reconsider how i contributed to the situation.  I am seing a great therapist every Monday.  I am experimenting with many contemplative practices.  Thinking of a Mahasi retreat in Asia but also connected to many great mostly Shinzen-styled groups in Canada.  

As for my weakness, am at a loss to identify save the obvious ones.  That i allowed a woman 13yrs younger and a foot shorter to control seems shameful on the surface, but i do not believe i should be controlled by shame.  that i did not stoop to her levels of anger and dillusion seems praiseworthy.  that i continue to want the family intact.   Still love that woman but the family more so and able to move on.   

sure we're not talking about physical weakness but on that note, Intermittent fasting has proved rewarding and i Have hit the gym with improved energy and outcomes.  

i'm not looking to hit some imagined hypermasculine ideal.  But similarly, tired of women controlling my destiny.  i don't see living with my mother as shameful as the Buddha would be the first to acknowledge our responsibility to our parents.  My mom has lived alone for sixteen years and grateful for the company.  she was naturally delighted That i was able to share my daughters for a visit yesterday. 

RE: Kadampa disaster - Spritual flame
3/29/17 3:41 PM as a reply to Rednaxela.
Thanks to the dharma brothers who've helped me with this.  I woud like to let you know that I'm emerging from this experience.
I was cautioned against it but, in January, went to MBMC in Malaysia for eleven days.  I finished incredibly happy and look forward to returning to Asia in 2018. I'd been doing about two hours of daily Mahasi noting since then on good days.  

I started the Finders Course on Saturday.  It's Jeffery Martin's research based project which promises a high success rate of "persistent non symbolic experience."  I started on the recommendation of my wife (yup) who started a couple months ago and is having a good time. 
She “gave up” spousal support and i initially thought she was giving up a lot.  But it now looks like she’ll get plenty through generous child support and other payouts for 20yrs.  She did ask for custody (my lawyer says its not terribly important).    

Anyway, I never imagined I’d be divorced  and really thought she was the one.  I am learning some unfortunate truths about Canadian family law that i never knew.  Things like the fact that I'm not allowed to retire and that i have to buy life insurance for my future obligations.  That my payments will never change no matter how much her financial situation improves.  Sure it isn’t too different in the US.   


RE: Kadampa disaster - Spritual flame
4/4/17 12:35 AM as a reply to Rednaxela.
If you can ever find the time, consider Panditarama Lumbini for 6 weeks or so.

What a mess the dharma can make of relationships, strangely. Glad you are doing somewhat better.

RE: Kadampa disaster - Spritual flame
4/4/17 10:04 AM as a reply to Rednaxela.
I'm that your doing better. 

You might want to try
A friend of mine tried when she went through a breakup, and said it helped.
How do you find the finders course?

RE: Kadampa disaster - Spritual flame
4/5/17 3:16 PM as a reply to Gunnar Johansson.
thanks for the book suggestion, i just ordered it after noticing all the 5star reviews.

Things are relatively good between my wife and I right now.  That may be because i've given her a good degree of latitude and am not getting angry when she says things like, "i really had no choice, it just happened," when referring to her infidelity.  Yesterday i went to her place to look after my daughters as she felt she was going through a dark night and unable.  She was definitely going through something, and spent 3-4 hrs upstairs while i was with kids, looking not well the first couple times i glimpsed her.  But later she was right as rain with plenty of ego.  i'm wondering how dark a night this was.  To be clear, i have no experience with dark nights and was looking forward to finally see one up close, support her etc.

On finders Course, i am only on my second of seventeen week course.  i like being in this course as it gets me meditating 2-3hr/day and forces me to meditate when i don't want to.  i like how it incorporates concepts like gratitude and forgiveness that i may have prev. overlooked.  Jeffery is pretty much guaranteeing acheivement of what he calls permanent non symbolic experience.  Jeff mentions that Daniel is one of the people he studied when looking into enlightened people to develop this course.  I wonder: has he ever said anything about it? 

My wife is further along and she believes it contributed to the dark night.  I suggested she seek guidance from the course facilitators but she was reluctant to tell them she is darknighting.

--> and to be clear, the breakup is not terribly upsetting.  I have always been a bit too infatuated with her and perhaps that led me to a place where i allowed her too much control.  In a sense, I'm relieved to free from her.  What does upset me is how the system is set up against men, sure that has been made clear in prior posts.  30-50% of my after tax pay will support her more than it will support our little girls (she says she'll save for her grandchildren).  This is continue for more than twenty years after a marriage of just over five years. and her future pay or remarriage is irrelevant.  Oh, and i got off easy as she says she was in a generous PNSE state in mediation.  When i started this thread i was blissfully unaware of these dangers--does anyone marry thinking about divorce?  I didnt get into the fact that the involvement of her parents was largely to blame.  And i was blissfully unaware of the dangers of divorce but would now argue that my wife is being parented by the legal system .  Sorry to be repetititive ...

RE: Kadampa disaster - Spritual flame
4/5/17 3:34 PM as a reply to Daniel M. Ingram.
Thanks Daniel, i am hoping to go to Burma in the next year or two.  Sure i will come out a new person.  

I suppose marriage and monogamy aren't really natural.  Yet i feel this is all very unfair.

Practicing gratitude, i recognize that i should be grateful for her good deeds.  For one, she introduced Vipassana to me when she invited me on a 10-day retreat.  She was 7months pregrnant so that must have been tough.  She said it was weird.  

RE: Kadampa disaster - Spritual flame
4/20/17 11:04 PM as a reply to Supreme Maharishi Bhumi 1000.
I’ve had reason to recall this thread. I've never been married nor do I have children so I have no practical experience to offer regarding spousal infidelity and/or navigating the minefield of separation and divorce. 

When this drama first unfolded it wasn’t at all clear to me (and still isn’t)  - and I’m not sure if it was clear to you - if there had been an adulterous relationship between your wife and the teacher, or if your wife was experiencing some variation of a one-sided infatuation - or if it was something else altogether. 

I’m also unfamiliar with Tibetan practice and protocols.

However, I was watching this video today on YouTube:
"In the Name of Enlightenment - Sex Scandal in Religion" - About Sogyal Rinpoche"

…and for some reason it reminded me of this thread. Maybe it was the way that you seemed to characterize the center’s response. To be clear, 
I’m not presenting this as a parallel to your situation nor am I imputing any improprieties … but just posting this as a general advisory on the sort of mischief that can potentially go down in spiritual communities, of which I’m sure the list is unnervingly long. 

Wishing you the best. 

PS: from some clues in your posts I believe we may have met very briefly after having sat a jhana retreat together in the summer of 2015 (where you took lifetime precepts)?

RE: Kadampa disaster - Spritual flame
4/24/17 9:21 AM as a reply to Monsoon Frog.
When this drama first unfolded it wasn’t at all clear to me (and still isn’t)  - and I’m not sure if it was clear to you - if there had been an adulterous relationship between your wife and the teacher, or if your wife was experiencing some variation of a one-sided infatuation - or if it was something else altogether. ...PS: from some clues in your posts I believe we may have met very briefly after having sat a jhana retreat together in the summer of 2015 (where you took lifetime precepts)?

My wife has pretty much admitted there was some bad behaviour.  And it's fairly clear that it's not the first time this teacher has preyed on students.  And I am very suspicious of NKT as a whole.

Were we clearing the paths at Bhavanna Society or how else might we have met?  Would love to return there sometime though planning out the next trip to Asia.

Kind regards