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Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this?

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Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this? Psi 5/30/16 7:19 AM
RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this? Pål 5/30/16 8:41 AM
RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this? Psi 5/30/16 10:36 AM
RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this? Nicky 5/30/16 5:07 PM
RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this? Noah 5/30/16 12:57 PM
RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this? bernd the broter 5/30/16 1:16 PM
RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this? Noah 5/30/16 1:33 PM
RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this? Jehanne S Peacock 5/31/16 2:29 AM
RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this? Chuck Kasmire 6/2/16 4:45 PM
RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this? Noah 6/2/16 5:48 PM
RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this? Nicky 6/3/16 1:44 AM
RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this? Nicky 6/3/16 1:10 AM
RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this? Noah 6/3/16 1:35 AM
RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this? Nicky 6/3/16 1:41 AM
RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this? Noah 6/3/16 3:33 AM
RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this? Nicky 5/30/16 2:39 PM
RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this? Psi 5/30/16 2:37 PM
RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this? Psi 5/30/16 7:46 PM
RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this? Nicky 5/30/16 11:40 PM
RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this? Nicky 5/30/16 10:27 PM
RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this? Psi 5/30/16 7:51 PM
RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this? Nicky 5/30/16 10:26 PM
RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this? Robert 5/31/16 12:42 AM
RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this? Psi 5/31/16 11:26 AM
RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this? Nicky 5/31/16 2:08 PM
RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this? This Good Self 5/31/16 3:45 AM
RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this? Robert 5/31/16 4:21 AM
RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this? Nicky 5/31/16 1:35 PM
RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this? Nicky 5/31/16 1:36 PM
RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this? neko 5/31/16 5:26 AM
RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this? Chuck Kasmire 6/2/16 4:36 PM
RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this? Nicky 6/3/16 12:59 AM
This post is in the Dharma Battleground section, didn't really know where else to put it.  So, be forewarned, lol.

Questions:

Did the Buddha teach reincarnation?

Did the Buddha teach rebirth, as in a rebirth as an actual animal, deva, or Mahasiddhi?

What about Anatta?  If one sees and knows Anatta, doesn't then all reincarnation beliefs become seen only as mental formations?  i.e. Delusions?

I guess that is enough to start off.  I am not stating that I know one way or the other.  I can only say that having visionary experiences of "previous lives" in other times and places , for me is not enough of a proof, as they are not me, not mine, and not myself.

And, as a side question, Does believing in Reincarnation really help one towards Nibbana, would not the Clinging to such ideas be a hindrance, in other words, a wormy way for the mind/ego to wish for higher realms??  Another delusion?

Right now, and of course things may change, Reincarnation and Rebirth seems like nonsense talk.  Excepting that the Mind and Body are "reborn" moment to moment, the Ego Formation likes to believe it is solid, and ignores that it is just a continual wheel like process, ephemeral , at best.  So, delusion and ignorance may like to be "reborn".

Though I do understand that we, whatever "we" are, as these unseperable temporary formations are made up of the Universe, and therefore "we" , as elements, or energy, or whatever "stuff" , are as old as the Universe itself.  Well, assuming that Time is not also just another illusion, lol.

Nothing lasts, but nothing is lost.  William Blake

Energy can neither be created nor destroyed; rather, it transforms from one form to another.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_energy


And, I do not know who said it, but it is comforting, I saw someone write somewhere, 

"You can't fall out of the Universe."

Main point


So, the main point of this thread, if there is a possible conclusion here, haha.

IF
the Buddha did not teach reincarnation, then why teach reincarnation under the Buddha's umbrella?

So, my main question is , Did the Buddha teach reincarntation??  Or not?

My vote is that the Buddha taught Anatta, and did not teach Reincarnation, or Rebirth.  


Psi

RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this?
Answer
5/30/16 8:41 AM as a reply to Psi.
It's different "levels" of the dhamma. Apparently at least, he did teach rebirth.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn15/sn15.014.than.html

https://suttacentral.net/en/an8.64

RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this?
Answer
5/30/16 10:36 AM as a reply to Pål.
Pål:
It's different "levels" of the dhamma. Apparently at least, he did teach rebirth.
Oh, but are you sure of this.  Does this hold up under Investigation?  This is what is being questioned.

And, even so, Perhaps the level of Understanding and Teaching of Reincarntation was for the lower levels of Wisdom, not the Higher, as you seem to be implying... emoticon 

Perhaps, some need to cling to the idea of higher and lower realms to spur and goad them in the right direction, at least at first.  So, it may not be all bad...

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn15/sn15.014.than.html
(14) Mata - Mother1. I heard thus. At one time the Blessed One was living in the monastery offered by Anāthapiṇḍika in Jeta's grove in Sāvatthi.From there the Blessed One addressed the monks:2. “Monks, without an end is the train of existence, a beginning cannot be pointed out of beings enveloped in ignorance and bound by craving, running from one existence to another.3. “Monks, you could not find a being who was not your mother in the past, in this long train of existences.4. “What is the reason? Monks, without an end is the train of existence, a beginning cannot be pointed out, of beings enveloped in ignorance and bound by craving, running from one existence to another.“Monks, it is suitable that you should turn away from all determinations, fade and be released from them.”

http://awake.kiev.ua/dhamma/tipitaka/2Sutta-Pitaka/3Samyutta-Nikaya/Samyutta2/14-Anamatagga-Samyutta/02-Duggatavaggo-e.html

So, in bold, it is said it is best to turn away from such all determinations, (teachings).

And , in a modern view it is indeed not possible to not find related DNA in any form of living being.  This could be "Mother"  , or "Father", so in that sense of DNA, yes, that does indeed seem to be the case.  But, not as in someone is the reincarnation of a Mommy, but rather that the X chromosome is present.

https://suttacentral.net/en/an8.64
And yes, but at the end of this little Sutta, the Buddha realized all this, and Purified his Mind of all this, he went beyond such Mental Formations.
But when the eightfold series of knowledge and vision of the higher devas was fully purified in me, then, monks, I realized as one wholly awakened to the highest awakening, unsurpassed in the world of devas, with its Māras and its Brahmās, or in the world of mankind with its recluses and godly men, devas and men.
It is my understanding that knowledge and vision of higher devas is a Mental Formation, this is understood to be as a defilement, of which the Buddha fully purifies.  No more value than an ephemeral dream.  And, if one contemplates upon it, if  a Deva were to be listened to, it would be a sidetrack, because a Deva would be a being that was not fully Enlightened, so they could not teach full path anyway, they could only teach how to be caught and ensnared in the Deva Realm, and could teach no farther.  emoticon

Then knowledge and vision arose in me, and I knew:
Sure is my heart's release; this is my last birth; there is now no more becoming for me.’

I read the above succintly as the end of the "I, me and mine"  delusion.  But, do not understand the words as a reincarnation type of statement.

Psi

RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this?
Answer
5/30/16 12:57 PM as a reply to Psi.
My teacher has an interesting stance on this.  He says a lot of the dogma is actually a spoof of Hinduism.  In other words, the entirety of the teaching on Kamma & Rebirth are 'inside jokes' in the sense of; lmao, how could anyone actually believe this stuff?  Specifically, these concepts all arise out of the 3 Watches of the Night, in which the Buddha has an impossibly large number of visions in a short time.  The humain brain can't process that fast, period.  Kamma is based on the idea of a 'store and forward mechanism' (his words), and not direct, cause and effect.  What the Buddha taught in earnest was direct cause and effect.  

My personal opinion is that these questions are imponderables for me.  Meaning, the very process of asking them is a blockage to progress.  To riff off of Jay-Z, "I got 99 problems but understanding Karma ain't one."

RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this?
Answer
5/30/16 1:16 PM as a reply to Noah.
Il Matto:
a lot of the dogma is actually a spoof of Hinduism.  In other words, the entirety of the teaching on Kamma & Rebirth are 'inside jokes' in the sense of; lmao, how could anyone actually believe this stuff?
I don't have any meaningful opinion on this, but I should definitely keep this view in mind.
It sounds like a highly potent weapon for The Trolling Of Die-Hard Buddhist Believers, and thus should get its firm place in the bread supply cabinet.


 Specifically, these concepts all arise out of the 3 Watches of the Night, in which the Buddha has an impossibly large number of visions in a short time.  The humain brain can't process that fast, period.  Kamma is based on the idea of a 'store and forward mechanism' (his words), and not direct, cause and effect.  What the Buddha taught in earnest was direct cause and effect.  
What are these 3 Watches of the Night? How are they related with the Buddha not taking stuff serious? I don't get the relation.

RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this?
Answer
5/30/16 1:33 PM as a reply to bernd the broter.
bernd:

It sounds like a highly potent weapon for The Trolling Of Die-Hard Buddhist Believers, and thus should get its firm place in the bread supply cabinet.


Lol can you imagine going over to Dharmawheel and touting these ideas?

What are these 3 Watches of the Night? 


It's the story of the Buddha's enlightenment.  The watches are just fancy words for separating night time into thirds.  During the first part he sees all of his previous lives and how Karma led to them.  During the second he sees all beings previous lives.  During the third he experiences fruition-cessation, and realizes the 4 Noble Truths.  

How are they related with the Buddha not taking stuff serious? 


Its related because the idea of seeing every previous life, of every being, ever, within 3 or 4 hours is absurd.


RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this?
Answer
5/30/16 2:39 PM as a reply to Psi.
My opinion:

The word 'jati' or 'birth' in Dependent Origination is defined as the generation of the 'idea' of 'beings' ('satta'). Please read the defintion carefully & also the explanations of the word 'satta' in the Satta Sutta (SN 23.2) & SN 5.10.

Therefore, there is certainly 'rebirth' or 'birthing again' for unenlightened minds since the generation of the idea or delusion of 'beings' or 'self' continues to reappear.

For example, to believe 'Thanissaro', 'Bhikkhu Bodhi' or 'Analayo' are actually 'beings' (rather than mere empty elements or sunnata dhatu) is 'rebirth' (particularly given SN 5.10 states there is 'no beings to be found' & to think otherwise is the view of Mara).

As for reincarnation, it is obvious the Lord Buddha did not teach this (despite a few dodgy suttas here & there).

Since the Buddha taught there can be no arising of consciousness independent of sense organs (MN 38) & aggregates (SN 22.53), how can there be a 're-linking' consciousness after the ending of the physical body?

So why teach 'reincarnation' under a Buddha umbrella?

It is attractive to 'beings' that delight in or crave for life; it can promote morality; & it can keep the donations coming to the monks. MN 117 states the 'defiled kamma obsession' sides with morality. 

In MN 26, the term 'alaya' (clinging) is discussed, how 'beings' (fettered by ignorance & craving) cling to life thus cannot penentrate the reality of Dependent Origination. Such 'beings' construe Dependent Origination to occur over 3 lifetimes via a reincarnation of a re-linking consciousness. 

emoticon

 

RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this?
Answer
5/30/16 2:37 PM as a reply to Psi.
Psi:


Did the Buddha teach reincarnation?
The Buddha with Sati the Fisherman, 

The Blessed One then asked him:
“Sāti, is it true that the following pernicious view has arisen in you: ‘As I understand the Dhamma taught by the Blessed One, it is this same consciousness that runs and wanders through the round of rebirths, not another’?”

“Exactly so, venerable sir. As I understand the Dhamma taught by the Blessed One, it is this same consciousness that runs and wanders through the round of rebirths, not another.”

“What is that consciousness, Sāti?”“Venerable sir, it is that which speaks and feels and experiences here and there the result of good and bad actions.”

“Misguided man, to whom have you ever known me to teach the Dhamma in that way? Misguided man, have I not stated in many ways consciousness to be dependently arisen, since without a condition there is no origination of consciousness? But you, misguided man, have misrepresented us by your wrong grasp and injured yourself and stored up much demerit; for this will lead to your harm and suffering for a long time.”
https://suttacentral.net/en/mn38

So, from the above excerpt, it seems that not only thinking reincarnation is the way things are,  and that the consciousness carries on into next lives is misguided, but also that to teach such ideas is at the least, ingenuous.

At least in this Sutta, the Buddha flat out denies the teaching of Reincarnation, ever.

Psi

RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this?
Answer
5/30/16 5:07 PM as a reply to Psi.
Psi

(14) Mata - Mother1. I heard thus. At one time the Blessed One was living in the monastery offered by Anāthapiṇḍika in Jeta's grove in Sāvatthi.From there the Blessed One addressed the monks: “Monks, without an end is the train of existence, a beginning cannot be pointed out of beings enveloped in ignorance and bound by craving, running from one existence to another. “Monks, you could not find a being who was not your mother in the past, in this long train of existences. “What is the reason? Monks, without an end is the train of existence, a beginning cannot be pointed out, of beings enveloped in ignorance and bound by craving, running from one existence to another.“Monks, it is suitable that you should turn away from all determinations, fade and be released from them.”

http://awake.kiev.ua/dhamma/tipitaka/2Sutta-Pitaka/3Samyutta-Nikaya/Samyutta2/14-Anamatagga-Samyutta/02-Duggatavaggo-e.html

You have (with discernment) highlighted the important part of this teaching. 

This also castes doubt upon the translation because the beginning of the passage should generate dispassion rather than passion.

For example, if Bhikkhu Bodhi, Thanissaro or Analayo were actually my mother, father, brother, sister, son or daughter in a past life, I would have passion (love) for those 'beings' rather than dispassion. The Dhammapada would not state to: "kill the mother & father". 

Are we sure the Pali includes the word "your"? For example, in SN 15.1, the personal pronouns are clear: "ayaṃ me mātā" (this is my mother; but SN 15.1 is not inferring reincarnation; it is simply counting back the family generations).

Also, the word 'bhuta' does not necessarily mean physically 'existed'. It can mean 'comes to be', in terms of psychological 'becoming'. 

We must keep in mind how the Satta Sutta defines the term 'satta' psychologically (rather than meta-physically). 

So the sutta may actually say: "could you find a state of being that has not come to be [with the pain & suffering associated with identifying] as a mother, father, son, etc". 

Regardless, not all suttas are words of the Buddha. emoticon

????

Na (not) so (you) bhikkhave (monks), satto (being) sulabharūpo (could find) yo (who ???) na (not) mātā (mother) bhūtapubbo (existed before) imina (for this) dīghena (long) addhunā (stretch).

RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this?
Answer
5/30/16 7:46 PM as a reply to Psi.
[quote=
]Did the Buddha teach rebirth, as in a rebirth as an actual animal, deva, or Mahasiddhi?
And then there is this, 

Generally, Buddhists believe that there is no beginning to birth and that once we achieve liberation from the cycle of existence by overcoming our karma and destructive emotions, we will not be reborn under the sway of these conditions. Therefore, Buddhists believe that there is an end to being reborn as a result of karma and destructive emotions, but most Buddhist philosophical schools do not accept that the mind-stream comes to an end. To reject past and future rebirth would contradict the Buddhist concept of the ground, path and result, which must be explained on the basis of the disciplined or undisciplined mind. If we accept this argument, logically, we would also have to accept that the world and its inhabitants come about without causes and conditions. Therefore, as long as you are a Buddhist, it is necessary to accept past and future rebirth.



For those who remember their past lives, rebirth is a clear experience. However, most ordinary beings forget their past lives as they go through the process of death, intermediate state and rebirth. As past and future rebirths are slightly obscure to them, we need to use evidence-based logic to prove past and future rebirths to them.
 


http://www.dalailama.com/messages/statement-of-his-holiness-the-fourteenth-dalai-lama-tenzin-gyatso-on-the-issue-of-his-reincarnation


RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this?
Answer
5/30/16 7:51 PM as a reply to Psi.
Psi:

Questions:

Did the Buddha teach reincarnation?
And this view...

In the Ghatikara Sutta the Buddha relates to the Venerable Ananda that he was born as Jotipala, in the time of the Buddha Kassapa, his immediate predecessor. The Anathapindikovada Sutta describes a nocturnal visit of Anathapindika to the Buddha, immediately after his rebirth as a Deva. In the Anguttara Nikaya,' the Buddha alludes to a past birth as Pacetana the wheelwright. In the samyutta Nikaya the Buddha cites the names of some Buddha's who preceded him. An unusual direct reference to departed ones appears in the Parinibbana Sutta. The Venerable Ananda desired to know from the Buddha the future state of several persons who had died in a particular village. The Buddha patiently described their destinies. Such instances could easily be multiplied from the Tipitaka to show that the Buddha did expound the doctrine of rebirth as a verifiable truth." Following the Buddha's instructions, his disciples also developed this retro-cognitive knowledge and were able to read a limited, though vast, number of their past lives.

So, if anyone says there is no such thing as reincarnation, they are basically calling Buddha a liar.

http://reluctant-messenger.com/reincarnation-buddha.htm


RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this?
Answer
5/30/16 11:40 PM as a reply to Psi.

To reject past and future rebirth would contradict the Buddhist concept of the ground, path and result, which must be explained on the basis of the disciplined or undisciplined mind. If we accept this argument, logically, we would also have to accept that the world and its inhabitants come about without causes and conditions. Therefore, as long as you are a Buddhist, it is necessary to accept past and future rebirth.




The world and its inhabitants come about through the forces, impacts, chemicals, etc, of biological reproduction. The law of kamma is about psychology rather than biology. 

emoticon

There are many different logical arguments given in the words of the Buddha and subsequent commentaries to prove the existence of past and future lives. In brief, they come down to four points: the logic that things are preceded by things of a similar type, the logic that things are preceded by a substantial cause, the logic that the mind has gained familiarity with things in the past, and the logic of having gained experience of things in the past.




In DN 16, it is reported the Buddha said his true disciples,
when adverse opinions arise, they shall be able to refute them thoroughly and well, and to preach this convincing and liberating Dhamma. 

Also, in AN 2.23, it is reported the Buddha described as 'slander' as 'what was not said or spoken by the Tathagata as said or spoken by the Tathagata'.

Also, in AN 3.65, it is said 'logic' is not to be used for a ground of belief. 

It follows the Buddha never said all 
things are preceded by things of a similar type & all things are preceded by a substantial cause.

There is the famous verse by Asajji to Upatissa (Sariputta), that said:

"Of all those things that from a cause arise,
Tathagata the cause thereof has told;


Therefore, all things do not arise from a cause. Only certain things arise from a cause.

About consciousness, for example, the Buddha said it only exists based on condition (paccaya) and not cause (hetu). 

'Apart from a requisite condition, there is no coming-into-play of consciousness' (aññatra paccayā natthi viññāṇassa sambhavo)


Similarly, about ignorance, the Buddha said it exits due to nutrient (ahara) but not due a cause (hetu). 

(AN 10.61 ) "A first beginning of ignorance cannot be conceived, (of which it can be said), 'Before that, there was no ignorance and it came to be after that.' Though this is so, monks, yet a specific condition of ignorance can be conceived. Ignorance, too, has its nutriment, I declare; and it is not without a nutriment. And what is the nutriment of ignorance? 'The five hindrances,' should be the answer.

 
The difference between a 'cause' (hetu) & a 'condition' (paccaya) or 'nutriment' (ahara) is a cause is a preceding condition (example, the cause of decay is bacteria or the cause of craving is feeling) where as a condition or nutriment can act in assocation with the something. 

In Dependent Origination, for example, the Buddha used the word 'paccaya' since ignorance & sankhara do not create  or cause consciousness (in the way batteries cause light in a torch) but, instead ignorance & sankhara condition or influence consciousness to be in a certain way (such as preoccupied, unclear or agitated). 

Therefore, the Buddha never explained what the causes of consciousness, ignorance, craving for existence, Nibbana, the four great elements, etc, were because these are unknowable. 

In MN 64, the Buddha taught a new born child has an underlying tendency for defilements but not a 'familiarity' towards things. For example, why certain disciples were attracted to certain arahant teachers the Buddha attributed solely 'elements' (SN 15.14). 

In MN 12, the Buddha said: 

13. (4) "Again, the Tathagata understands as it actually is the world with its many and different elements. That too is a Tathagata's power...

14. (5) "Again, the Tathagata understands as it actually is how beings have different inclinations. That too is a Tathagata's power..


In AN 1.49, it is said clarity is clouded by defilements and illuminated by the ending of defilements. It is not said clarity comes from clarity. 

In Thailand, there was a famous monk named Ajahn Chah, reputed to have psychic powers & be an arahant. Yet in old age, Ajahn Chah developed dementia (or similar) and became unconscious. In other words, the mind no longer had clarity & awareness (at least externally). 

Therefore, it appears obvious, just as electricity or fire powers light, the electrical neurons of the brain (or some other physical cause) powers the light of consciousness and, when the brain malfunctions or ages, so does clarity. 

In MN 18 and elsewhere, the Buddha explained the arising of clarity & awareness (aka 'consciousness') is dependent on sense organs & sense objects. For example, in the cessation of perception & feeling, because consciousness no longer has any sense objects (namely, perception & feeling), it becomes unconscious. 

That is why in SN 22.53 it is said for there to be the arising of consciousness without the other aggregates is impossible. 

In DN 16, it is reported the Buddha said his true disciples, 
when adverse opinions arise, they shall be able to refute them thoroughly and well, and to preach this convincing and liberating Dhamma. 


Ultimately all these arguments are based on the idea that the nature of the mind, its clarity and awareness, must have clarity and awareness as its substantial cause. It cannot have any other entity such as an inanimate object as its substantial cause. This is self-evident. Through logical analysis we infer that a new stream of clarity and awareness cannot come about without causes or from unrelated causes. While we observe that mind cannot be produced in a laboratory, we also infer that nothing can eliminate the continuity of subtle clarity and awareness


RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this?
Answer
5/30/16 10:26 PM as a reply to Psi.
Not all of the suttas are words of the Buddha. The Four Great References state words in suttas must be checked against the core teachings. 

The Ghatikara Sutta states: "Ananda, it might occur to you. ‘Did this young man Jotipala attain perfection then?’. ‘It should not be thought in that manner. I was Jotipala at that time.’

Yet the 
Khajjaniya Sutta states: "Any brahmans or contemplatives who recollect their manifold past abodes all recollect the five clung to aggregates, or one among them. Which five? When recollecting, 'I was one with such a form in the past,' one is recollecting just form. Or when recollecting, 'I was one with such a feeling in the past,' one is recollecting just feeling. Or when recollecting, 'I was one with such a perception in the past,' one is recollecting just perception. Or when recollecting, 'I was one with such mental fabrications in the past,' one is recollecting just mental fabrications. Or when recollecting, 'I was one with such a consciousness in the past,' one is recollecting just consciousness. Any aggreggates whatsoever that is past, future, or present; internal or external; blatant or subtle; common or sublime; far or near: every consciousness is to be seen as it actually is with right discernment as: 'This is not mine. This is not my self. This is not what I am.'

Similarly, MN 123 states as soon as the Bodhisatta was born from his mother's womb, he stood up firmly & declared: "I am the highest in the world". 

Yet MN 64 states a new born child has no idea of self-view (due to their immaturity). 

MN 143 states Anathapindika had never heard a teaching about non-attachment before & returned after death to visit Sariputta. 

Yet somewhere in the SN it is stated 
Anathapindika was a stream-enterer thus Anathapindika must have understood non-attachment. 

What is important is to go beyond doubt because every entertainment of reincarnation is a 'becoming' & contrary to the noble path. 

It is also important to understand Buddhism became extinct in India because monks polluted the Buddha's teachings. 


emoticon




RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this?
Answer
5/30/16 10:27 PM as a reply to Psi.
Psi:
Did the Buddha teach rebirth, as in a rebirth as an actual animal, deva, or Mahasiddhi?

SN 56.123 states some animals pass away from the animal realm and are born into the human realm via realising the four noble truths. Are these actual animals, such as dogs, cats, horse, caterpillers, worms, etc, realising the four noble truths? 

MN 122 and the Vinaya state monks should not engage in 'animal talk'. Does this mean behaving like Dr Doolittle? 


emoticon

RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this?
Answer
5/31/16 12:42 AM as a reply to Psi.
Psi:

So, my main question is , Did the Buddha teach reincarntation??  Or not?

My vote is that the Buddha taught Anatta, and did not teach Reincarnation, or Rebirth.  


Psi

If you think that there is actually a past where there was a Buddha who taught these things then that implies that there is reincarnation going on right now. If there is not the experience of being an experiencer located in a body in time and space, then to think anything about reincarnation is totally meaningless. Thinking might seemingly happen but there's no thinker producing the thoughts and as such the thoughts are totally empty of any meaning. The concepts lose their meaning when they're seen to not speak to anyone. The thoughts have not seen the one they claim to speak to or speak about. It's an empty narrative.

RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this?
Answer
5/31/16 2:29 AM as a reply to Noah.
Il Matto:


How are they related with the Buddha not taking stuff serious? 


Its related because the idea of seeing every previous life, of every being, ever, within 3 or 4 hours is absurd.


Hmm... To me this doesn't seem absurd.

RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this?
Answer
5/31/16 3:45 AM as a reply to Psi.
Nisagardatta seems to know something.  He is so 'on point' with everything else he says, that I tend to trust this:

Q:  If I am that, then what causes me to be born?

N:  The memory of the past unfulfilled desires traps energy, which manifests itself as a person.
When its charge gets exhausted, the person dies. Unfulfilled desires are carried over into the next
birth. Self-identification with the body creates ever fresh desires and there is no end to them, unless
this mechanism of bondage is clearly seen. It is clarity that is liberating, for you cannot abandon
desire, unless its causes and effects are clearly seen. I do not say that the same person is reborn. It
dies and dies for good. But its memories remain and their desires and fears. They supply the
energy for a new person.
The real takes no part in it, but makes it possible by giving it the light.

RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this?
Answer
5/31/16 4:21 AM as a reply to This Good Self.
He has also said this:

Question: You told me that I can be considered under three aspects: the personal , the super-personal and the Impersonal . The Avyakta is the Universal and real pure "I"; the vyakta is its reflection in consciousness as "I am"; the vyakti is the totality of physical and vital processes.

Within the narrow confines of the present moment, the super-personal is aware of the person, both in space and time; not only one person, but the long series of persons strung together on the thread of karma. It is essentially the witness as well as the residue of the accumulated experiences, the seat of memory, the connecting link . It is man's character which life builds and shapes from birth to birth. The universal is beyond all name and shape, beyond consciousness and character, pure unselfconscious being. Did I put down your views rightly?

Nisargadatta: On the level of the mind, yes. Beyond the mental level, not a word applies.


But he has some great pointers for sure.

RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this?
Answer
5/31/16 1:35 PM as a reply to This Good Self.
Imo, Theravada-Mahayana-proto-Hindu ideas of storehouse & reinlinking consciousness are contrary to life experience & meditative experience. 

Simple life experience tells us desires are connected to the physical body, even though they are immaterial in nature. 

The simple fact that physical hunger pains cause mental desires show desires are related to the physical body. 

The simple fact that most children have few sexual desires but as they mature into teenage puberty develop strong sexual & personality desires (due to new chemical hormones & physical development) shows desires are related to the physical body.

Many people, when their bodies get old, experience a reduction in sexual desires. When people are emotionally depressed, psychiatrists prescribed chemical medicines, which affect the brain and result in an emotional uplift. 

Simple life experience tells us desires are connected to the physical body, even though they are immaterial in nature. That is why both innate & thought stimulated desires are an energy in the physical body that can cause physical changes, such as the erection of physical sex organs. 

I recall a friend telling me after she had given birth to her child, she was in a shopping centre and heard a baby cry & her breasts automatically burst milk, wetting her clothing in public. 

Meditation experience tells us when consciousness is fully aware of desires, consciousness calms & dissolves desires. It is like consciousness is like acid and desires are like specs of matter. Thus, consciousness cannot 'store' & 'transfer' desires since desires are related to the physical body. 

That is why in hard core jhana, the desires stored in the body have been calmed away, the body has also been calmed and the mind experiences the expansiveness, clarity & unburdened freedom of jhana, where desires have ceased. 

Consciousness & desires are contrary things. Consciousness cannot store & carry desires, just as acid cannot carry & store material particles. Consciousness is only sense awareness; that is all. 

The old scriptures say: "Kamma is the field, consciousness the seed and craving the moisture". Yet the reincarnation theories appear to infer that kamma is the moisture, consciousness is the field (in which the seed is planted) and craving the seed (carried by the field & watered by kamma).  

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RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this?
Answer
5/31/16 1:36 PM as a reply to This Good Self.
C C C:
I do not say that the same person is reborn. It dies and dies for good. But its memories remain and their desires and fears. They supply the energy for a new person. 

Imo, it is morally wrong to teach the above because the only reason a Buddha would ever infer there was reincarnation was to promote morality (non-harmful behaviours) amongst reincarnation believers. 

This is why in the original Buddhist scriptures those teachings that infer there may be rebirth or reincarnation state the same person is reborn. MN 60 states (contrary to the higher teachings) that the ordinary householder has right view if they have the view of continued existence (i.e., 'eternalism'). 

People will not have any incentive to do good (apart from altruism) if they believe they are not the personal future recipients of their past personal karma. 

For the Buddha, any inference of 'rebirth' is a moral teaching related to kammic inheritence. I have never read Buddha teachings about kammic inheritance & not-self in the same discourse. This is because the old scriptures state the realisation of not-self ends/eradicates karma (AN 6.63). 

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With regard to this, an observant person considers thus: 'If there is the other world, then this venerable person — on the breakup of the body, after death — will reappear in a good destination, a heavenly world. Even if we didn't speak of the other world, and there weren't the true statement of those venerable contemplatives & brahmans, this venerable person is still praised in the here-&-now by the observant as a person of good habits & right view: one who holds to a doctrine of existence.' MN 60



Just this noble eightfold path — right view, right resolve, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration — is the path of practice leading to the cessation of kamma. AN 6.63

RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this?
Answer
5/31/16 5:26 AM as a reply to Psi.
My opinion, which will probably not sit well with some people (apologies in advance, I do not mean to offend, but to empower all points of view on this matter).

The Buddha is a collective pseudonym adopted by hundreds of meditation masters over the centuries. There probably (certainly?) was a historic Buddha who originated it all*, but after his death it was a common practice to retcon the Buddha's teachings by attributing one's own innovations to the Buddha. Feel free to think of him as Nicolas Bourbaki or [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luther_Blissett_(nom_de_plume)]Luther Blisset or Jesus Christ. If you do not want to believe in reincarnation / rebirth, and would like the Buddha to not have believed in it either, you are free to do so and claim that it was the Buddha's idea all along. It is the most philological and traditional way to practice Buddhism in my opinion.

______________________

* Although tradition says that the Buddha himself had meditation teachers. So the collective pseudonym probably stretches back to before the Buddha himself.

RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this?
Answer
5/31/16 11:26 AM as a reply to Robert.
Robert:
Psi:

So, my main question is , Did the Buddha teach reincarntation??  Or not?

My vote is that the Buddha taught Anatta, and did not teach Reincarnation, or Rebirth.  


Psi

If you think that there is actually a past where there was a Buddha who taught these things then that implies that there is reincarnation going on right now. If there is not the experience of being an experiencer located in a body in time and space, then to think anything about reincarnation is totally meaningless. Thinking might seemingly happen but there's no thinker producing the thoughts and as such the thoughts are totally empty of any meaning. The concepts lose their meaning when they're seen to not speak to anyone. The thoughts have not seen the one they claim to speak to or speak about. It's an empty narrative.
Mu  

Edit, 

Nicky, Yes and thank you for pointing out the above phenomenon.  Admittedly, there are still times when the mind gets caught in the web of views.  But, when Investigated the truth of the matter becomes apparent.  The delusion of Self can be readily Investigated internally, but it is true also externally, that other forms are Anatta also. Though, internal and external are understood to be conventional terms. It does seem that once one sees the process of Dependent Origination, it can be seen all around, in people , animals, all that.  Seeing how Craving arises, its cause, the cessation.

There always does , at times , seem to be a problem when using Language, it seems to be based upon a conventional view, and does not always lend well to Dhamma.  

Still learning here, still Investigating, and it is all still really Interesting...

Guess that is a form of Craving...  emoticon

Psi

RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this?
Answer
5/31/16 2:08 PM as a reply to Psi.
You're welcome. I specifically intended to give 'you' a lesson in how to refute reincarnation.

That said, having 'right view' is not part of the web of views. The mind will vacilliate between being (bhava) & non-being (vibhava) if adhering to the view that Nibbana is non-conceptuality. The scriptures compare this to a dog chasing their tail. They explain Nibbana is the destruction of craving rather than the destruction of thought concepts (sankhara) & state each of the five aggregates are 'not-self' (anatta), which includes the sankhara khandha. The idea of 'concept & reality' is the same as the Brahministic idea of 'nama-rupa' (which the Buddha redefined). The scriptures use the words 'internal' & 'external' quite freely to represent ultimate truth (without vacillating papanca). Languge is only a problem when there is attachment & aversion to it. Void language is void. Mere words. 

With metta emoticonemoticon

RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this?
Answer
6/2/16 4:36 PM as a reply to Psi.
Psi: I can only say that having visionary experiences of "previous lives" in other times and places , for me is not enough of a proof, as they are not me, not mine, and not myself.

I am not aware that Buddha at any point asks anyone to hold some blind belief in rebirth. In the suttas it is presented in (using terminology from this site) a pragmatic fashion - here is what I did and here is what I experienced. If you were on a forum for hobbyist wood workers, would you reject some teaching from a master wood worker on what was possible simply because you had not yet acquired the skills stated to be necessary to carry out such a task? It is clear from the early texts that these things were to be known for yourself.

What about Anatta? If one sees and knows Anatta, doesn't then all reincarnation beliefs become seen only as mental formations? i.e. Delusions?

Sure, reincarnation beliefs - like any view - should not be tightly held. Views should be held as working hypotheses. Rebirth as a description for a specific process is different from rebirth as a belief or concept. If you tell me about your job - then I will form a mental concept or belief about what your job is like. But I should not  rigidly hold that this is in fact what your job is like. If I go to where you work and see what goes on myself - that is quite a different thing. This is not about beliefs - it’s about practice and the result of practice.

Does believing in Reincarnation really help one towards Nibbana.

Does believing in the dark night really help one do noting?

"You can't fall out of the Universe."

Not sure about that. If not, it sure can seem that way.

"Monks, you could not find a being who was not your mother in the past, in this long train of existences.4. “What is the reason? Monks, without an end is the train of existence, a beginning cannot be pointed out, of beings enveloped in ignorance and bound by craving, running from one existence to another.“Monks, it is suitable that you should turn away from all determinations, fade and be released from them.”

So, in bold, it is said it is best to turn away from such all determinations, (teachings).

First off, doesn’t the part underlined sort of in some small way indicate we are talking about rebirth - the whole mom thing? In the same sutta he also talks about dad, bro, sis, son and daughters as well. in the sutta prior to this you find many more similar examples. For instance:

“Monks, without an end is the train of existence, a beginning cannot be pointed out of beings enveloped in ignorance and bound by craving, running from one existence to another.

4. “A man who would collect all the grass, sticks and branches in the peninsula of India would make them into four inch pieces to represent his train of mothers, a piece for his mother, another for his mother's mother and so on. Very soon the collection of grass, sticks and branches cut into four inch bits would diminish and finish but not the representation of the mothers. ...

6. “Thus, monks, you have suffered sharp unpleasantness, severe destruction and filled up cemeteries.

mothers, mother’s mothers, cemeteries? - there are not just a few suttas speaking about rebirth in these ways - also about oceans of blood and tears, mountains of bones, mothers wombs, etc. It could be 100‘s.

What is the basis for equating determinations with thinking? I believe it has more to do with focus of intention, obsession, that kind of thing. Here referring more to infatuation with becoming, the endless round of rebirths - samsara.

“Exactly so, venerable sir. As I understand the Dhamma taught by the Blessed One, it is this same consciousness that runs and wanders through the round of rebirths, not another.”

“What is that consciousness, Sāti?”“Venerable sir, it is that which speaks and feels and experiences here and there the result of good and bad actions.”

“Misguided man, to whom have you ever known me to teach the Dhamma in that way? Misguided man, have I not stated in many ways consciousness to be dependently arisen, since without a condition there is no origination of consciousness? But you, misguided man, have misrepresented us by your wrong grasp and injured yourself and stored up much demerit; for this will lead to your harm and suffering for a long time.”

Psi: So, from the above excerpt, it seems that not only thinking reincarnation is the way things are,  and that the consciousness carries on into next lives is misguided, but also that to teach such ideas is at the least, ingenuous.

At least in this Sutta, the Buddha flat out denies the teaching of Reincarnation, ever.

Sati, in this case is equating consciousness with self. As everyone knows, consciousness (as one of the aggregates - should be regarded as not-self (because it’s inconstant). Consciousness here refers to consciousness bound up with name and form - circling around each other like a whirlpool - bound together by craving. Basically, Sati sees consciousness as a ‘thing’ a self - and this is the error Buddha is correcting. He is denying reincarnation - the idea that there is some perceivable individual  or self that continues through many lives but he is not denying rebirth.

The main focus of my post is that this teaching is to be experienced for yourself (or not - depending on your interest). To reject something out of hand without doing the experiment for yourself is not very pragmatic. I think the pragmatic approach would be simply not passing judgment - if one cares not to do develop the needed skills to carry out the experiment.

RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this?
Answer
6/2/16 4:45 PM as a reply to Noah.
Il Matto:
My teacher has an interesting stance on this.  He says a lot of the dogma is actually a spoof of Hinduism.  In other words, the entirety of the teaching on Kamma & Rebirth are 'inside jokes' in the sense of; lmao, how could anyone actually believe this stuff?  Specifically, these concepts all arise out of the 3 Watches of the Night, in which the Buddha has an impossibly large number of visions in a short time.  The humain brain can't process that fast, period.  Kamma is based on the idea of a 'store and forward mechanism' (his words), and not direct, cause and effect.  What the Buddha taught in earnest was direct cause and effect.  

My personal opinion is that these questions are imponderables for me.  Meaning, the very process of asking them is a blockage to progress.  To riff off of Jay-Z, "I got 99 problems but understanding Karma ain't one."
I agree with the whole impnerable thing but that being said:

As a bit of an aside: Hinduism is not considered to have come into existance prior to the time of the Buddha. It is a later synthesis that incorporated many ideas - including from Buddhism. Buddha lived in the Vedic culture which predates Hinduism.

It would be interesting to know what your teacher is basing this on. As far as I know, all we really know about the culture of the time is from the three Vedas that existed at that time, the suttas, and some other odds and ends - such as from the Jains.

Hinduism's Rigveda makes references to reincarnation in the Brahmanas layer. These early textual layers of the Vedas, from 2nd millennium BCE, mention and anticipate the doctrine of Karma and rebirth, however states Stephen Laumakis, the idea is not fully developed. It is in the early Upanishads, which are pre-Buddha and pre-Mahavira, where these ideas are more fully developed, but there too the discussion does not provide specific mechanistic details. The detailed doctrines flower with unique characteristics, starting around the mid 1st millennium BCE, in diverse traditions such as in Buddhism, Jainism and various schools of Hindu philosophy. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reincarnation#Origins

From what I have read, these first three vedas may or may not say anything about rebirth/reincarnation. The writing is cryptic and you can say it means pretty much anything with a little imagination. We are just so far from this culture and its symbolism. In any case, there is no clear obvious presentation of rebirth to be found there as is found in Buddhism, Jainism, and Hinduism later on. The suttas teach that there were many different views in existence at the time - rebirth and its various derivatives just being some of them - this seems consistent with the Vedas in the sense that there does seem to be a vedic reference to only one clan having rebirth teaching. I think it is a real stretch to make the joke claim but like I say, I am interested in what his sources are.

Another aspect of this is that all the suttas were sort of packaged up after Buddha died. The suttas were provided with a sort of preamble to provide context and kind of wrapper text at this time. If the ‘joke’ was commonly understood at the time of his teaching, certainly it was known at the time of his death and continuing on in at least the memory of those monks that were alive at the time of the Buddha and onward for some time. Buddhism quickly expanded out to other cultures - it seems likely that the monastic community would have at an early time seen it necessary to let people (of different cultural backgrounds) in on the joke so they would not be mislead on such an important topic. To the best of my knowledge - there is nothing to indicate this at all in any of the schools.

Information in non-physical reality is not thought-based or intellectual - it is grocked - kind of an experiential blob - Robert Monroe called this phenomena ‘thought balls’ - that then have to be ‘unpacked’ - a process that can take a long time. Immense amounts of information can transfer essentially instantaneously. I have experienced this kind of phenomena for myself and there are a number of people that discuss this. One may certainly question the validity of such information but the ‘high speed data transfer’ experience is known.

Personally, I think if it looks, sounds, and poops like a duck - it probably is one - and probably has been at some time the mother of every other duck out there.

RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this?
Answer
6/2/16 5:48 PM as a reply to Chuck Kasmire.
Chuck:
As a bit of an aside: Hinduism is not considered to have come into existance prior to the time of the Buddha. It is a later synthesis that incorporated many ideas - including from Buddhism. Buddha lived in the Vedic culture which predates Hinduism.

Understood.  I was being sloppy with my terminology.  I don't remember whether my teacher used the term 'Hinduism' or 'Vedism,' etc. 
From what I have read, these first three vedas may or may not say anything about rebirth/reincarnation. 

The main thing he does stress is that reincarnation reinforced the social caste system of the time, in particular favoring the Brahmin caste.  Whether or not it was in the religions of the time, it certainly was in the social system.
I think it is a real stretch to make the joke claim but like I say, I am interested in what his sources are.

For me, the joke thing is more like a form of Upaya towards a certain hermeneutic strategy, rather than an attempt to state with absolute certainty, what the Buddha taught.

I don't know what his sources are, but if I remember to ask him, I will post here later.  I will say that the primary influence for his interpretation of the Pali Canon is from studying directly under Ajahn Buddhadasa.  He has also had prolonged contact with Ajahn Po, and has verified (with these people) the usefulness of various interpretations he teaches.  
Buddhism quickly expanded out to other cultures - it seems likely that the monastic community would have at an early time seen it necessary to let people (of different cultural backgrounds) in on the joke so they would not be mislead on such an important topic

A couple thoughts:  One is that the primary purpose of the monastic community is to reinforce the economy of gifts, so that the Dhamma can continue.  Inherently built into this, is the need for various dogmas which reinforce people's motivation to be involved in the economy of gifts.  Rebirth and Kamma teachings are two of these dogmas.  In short, the supramundane path becoming widespread would NOT be good for the monkhood.  

Another tought: Ajahn Buddhadasa was apparently one of the leaders of a movement in Thailand (I think starting in the 60's ??) called "Ante-Ashoka."  It basically posited that King Ashoka was responsible for various changes to the suttas, the monastic system, the dogma, etc., which made Buddhism into what it is today.  They claim that before that, the Dhamma was basically a means of cultivating happiness as a skill.

I don't necessarily 'buy into' any, or all, of this.  All I can say is that the guy's advice has worked well for me in the past six months.  I do find all of this interesting, however.

RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this?
Answer
6/3/16 12:59 AM as a reply to Chuck Kasmire.
Chuck Kasmire:

I am not aware that Buddha at any point asks anyone to hold some blind belief in rebirth. In the suttas it is presented in (using terminology from this site) a pragmatic fashion - here is what I did and here is what I experienced. If you were on a forum for hobbyist wood workers, would you reject some teaching from a master wood worker on what was possible simply because you had not yet acquired the skills stated to be necessary to carry out such a task? It is clear from the early texts that these things were to be known for yourself.



It is pointless to believe 'The Buddha' is supporting one's idiosyncratic point of view when one does not even understand the language of the scriptures. In the scriptures, the word 'birth' ('jati') primarily refers to a mental state rather than 'birth' from a woman. The definition is unambigious. It is appropriate to make references to the language itself to support one's point of view. 

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RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this?
Answer
6/3/16 1:10 AM as a reply to Noah.
Il Matto:
My teacher has an interesting stance on this.  He says a lot of the dogma is actually a spoof of Hinduism.  In other words, the entirety of the teaching on Kamma & Rebirth are 'inside jokes' in the sense of; lmao, how could anyone actually believe this stuff?  Specifically, these concepts all arise out of the 3 Watches of the Night, in which the Buddha has an impossibly large number of visions in a short time.  The humain brain can't process that fast, period.  Kamma is based on the idea of a 'store and forward mechanism' (his words), and not direct, cause and effect.  What the Buddha taught in earnest was direct cause and effect.  


Your teacher does not understand the language of the suttas or kamma. These books may help your teacher:

http://www.theravada-dhamma.org/blog/?p=8185

http://www.buddhismwithoutboundaries.com/Anatta_and_Rebirth.pdf

http://www.mahidol.ac.th/budsir/budsir/handbook/another_kind_of_birth.htm
 

RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this?
Answer
6/3/16 1:35 AM as a reply to Nicky.
Nicky:

Your teacher does not understand the language of the suttas or kamma. 

Hehe, okay.  Well his understanding damn sure has helped mine! emoticon

RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this?
Answer
6/3/16 1:44 AM as a reply to Noah.
Il Matto:

A couple thoughts:  One is that the primary purpose of the monastic community is to reinforce the economy of gifts, so that the Dhamma can continue.  Inherently built into this, is the need for various dogmas which reinforce people's motivation to be involved in the economy of gifts.  Rebirth and Kamma teachings are two of these dogmas.  In short, the supramundane path becoming widespread would NOT be good for the monkhood.  

Another tought: Ajahn Buddhadasa was apparently one of the leaders of a movement in Thailand (I think starting in the 60's ??) called "Ante-Ashoka."  It basically posited that King Ashoka was responsible for various changes to the suttas, the monastic system, the dogma, etc., which made Buddhism into what it is today.  They claim that before that, the Dhamma was basically a means of cultivating happiness as a skill.

I don't necessarily 'buy into' any, or all, of this.  All I can say is that the guy's advice has worked well for me in the past six months.  I do find all of this interesting, however.

The suttas are generally fine, apart from a literal few (from thousands) that teach literal reincarnation (such as) AN 3.15, MN 50, MN 81, MN 143, etc, that teach literal reincarnation and also much of the non-sense in the DN, such as DN 15, 17 & 19.  

Karma & 'rebirth' do occur, such as when the mind (under the ignorant view of 'self') commits an unskilful action then the mind (under the ignorant view of 'self') regrets that action at a later time. Every time self-view arises, this is a new 'birth' or 'taking birth' again. It is not 'rebirth' since the same 'self' is not being 'reborn' but it is new 'birth' or being 'born' again. Each new kammic-birth is 'suffering'. 

One cannot assert kamma & 'rebirth' are some kind of religious joke. They are the reality of the lives of puthujjana (ordinary people). 

Thus, using his psychic powers or divine eye for the 2nd Knowledge, the Buddha observed the 'rise & fall' of 'beings' due to their kamma, such as, for example, the rise & fall of Adolf Hitler or Tiger Woods. 

In the 1st Knowledge, it does not mention the Buddha used his 'divine eye' because all he did here was recollect his past 'ego' or 'self' births, such as when he was 4 years old and truly believed his toy chariot belonged to him. 

So, yes, it is obvious the dodgy suttas, such as AN 3.15, DN 15, etc, and books such as the Jataka Tales were introduced by a clergy trying to attract new followers & keep the donations flowing. 

However, it is not Buddha-like to teach supramundane dhamma to all people. For example, thousands of people listened to Ajahn Buddhadasa speak in his lifetime and what perceptage of those people attained the path? Not many, probably impossible to calculate such a small percentage. 

There is a vey important principle in the commentaries stating the Buddha cannot utter false speech. 

The Awakened One, best of speakers, 
Spoke two kinds of truths: 
The conventional and the ultimate. 
A third truth does not obtain. 

Therein: 
The speech wherewith the world converses is true 
On account of its being agreed upon by the world. 
The speech which describes what is ultimate is also true, 
Through characterizing dhammas as they really are. 

Therefore, being skilled in common usage, 
False speech does not arise in the Teacher, 
Who is Lord of the World, 
When he speaks according to conventions. 

(Mn. i. 95)

RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this?
Answer
6/3/16 1:41 AM as a reply to Noah.
Il Matto:
Nicky:

Your teacher does not understand the language of the suttas or kamma. 

Hehe, okay.  Well his understanding damn sure has helped mine! emoticon

How? emoticon

RE: Rebirth, Reincarnation, Did the Buddha teach this?
Answer
6/3/16 3:33 AM as a reply to Nicky.
Nicky:

How? emoticon

I feel much joy and mindfulness automatically beginning to bloom in my awareness throughout the day.  I act on the desire to spread this joy to others in my interactions with them.  I am able to investigate the range of my emotions, as well as the various conditions of my life, without ever needing to come to a conlusion about them.  I am working on gaining sensory restraint, as well as disciplined action required by the task at hand (and in spite of my craving to not do so).