holding the mind on the object vs letting it

vic, modified 7 Years ago at 6/4/16 4:33 AM
Created 7 Years ago at 6/4/16 4:22 AM

holding the mind on the object vs letting it

Posts: 27 Join Date: 1/15/15 Recent Posts
Which should you do? should you try to hold your attention on the object without letting the mind wander? or should you focus on the object and let it wander and then return it?
Some usually say to let it wander and return while others disagree and say you should try your hardest to keep your attention there without it slipping. Im confused on what to do.
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Psi, modified 7 Years ago at 6/4/16 11:00 AM
Created 7 Years ago at 6/4/16 9:53 AM

RE: holding the mind on the object vs letting it

Posts: 1099 Join Date: 11/22/13 Recent Posts
vic:
Which should you do? should you try to hold your attention on the object without letting the mind wander? or should you focus on the object and let it wander and then return it?
Some usually say to let it wander and return while others disagree and say you should try your hardest to keep your attention there without it slipping. Im confused on what to do.
Hi vic, 

I like to look at it this way.

First Assumption:

Basically the mind can only do one thing at time, but , since there are so many mind moments in even one second, it seems like the mind is able to do things simultaneously.

So, place the mind upon your object of meditaion, i.e. the breath sensation, rising and fallling of the abdomen, a candle, a word, peripheral awareness, whatever.

Then when the mind wanders to another object, thoughts and other sensations , whatevever phenomenon, and only then , gently place the mind back upon the object of meditation.

So, by meditating in this fashion, one both lets go of the distraction, and "holds" on to the object of meditation.  Though, thinking of it as the mind "resting" upon the object of meditation may be more apt.  "Holding" the mind, you will find requires an added level of unnecessary physical and mental stress, that can be noticed as physical and mental tension and tightness.  

Rest the mind on the object, like a golf ball on a tee.  The golf ball is "held" there, yet there is no holder...

Edit: Or think of it like an egg in the nest.  Or a Lotus on the Pond.

Practicing in this manner, in formal meditation, will also train the mind to "let go" in daily living, and place the mind back upon wholesome states.  In this way the meditation has more of a direct and beneficial effect upon our daily moment to moment lives.  

Fruits, here and now.

Perhaps, if needed, this could be explained from another angle, by another practioner, or by myself later, if needed.

With peace,

Psi
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Noah, modified 7 Years ago at 6/4/16 12:13 PM
Created 7 Years ago at 6/4/16 12:13 PM

RE: holding the mind on the object vs letting it

Posts: 1467 Join Date: 7/6/13 Recent Posts
The gentle return strategy has worked better than the hold-the-line tightness.  With the gentle return, I can keep my atmosphere of joy going in my mind, and continuously give myself positive feedback ("aha, I caught you", or "never mind, start again", or "good job buddy").  

As an aside, this doesn't get me past first jhana usually, but it has helped my mind become quiet enough that I can go higher if I incline it upwards.
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Psi, modified 7 Years ago at 6/4/16 7:57 PM
Created 7 Years ago at 6/4/16 7:51 PM

RE: holding the mind on the object vs letting it

Posts: 1099 Join Date: 11/22/13 Recent Posts
vic:


neko, modified 7 Years ago at 6/6/16 4:37 AM
Created 7 Years ago at 6/6/16 4:36 AM

RE: holding the mind on the object vs letting it

Posts: 762 Join Date: 11/26/14 Recent Posts
Both.

If you are feeling drowsy, a bit too easily distracted, unfocused: tighten up an hold your mind on the object. 

If you feel agitated, nervous, overly energetic: relax, ease up, let your mind go and gently bring it back without forcing yourself. 

As you get better at understanding which you need to be doing moment to moment, find the sweet spot between the two extremes and stay there. 
Banned For waht?, modified 7 Years ago at 6/6/16 7:28 AM
Created 7 Years ago at 6/6/16 7:28 AM

RE: holding the mind on the object vs letting it

Posts: 500 Join Date: 7/14/13 Recent Posts
When you start watching the object then you need to do nothing but wait till the dust or aftereffects subside from the past doing then there will awareness move and lock itself into a centerpoint and then you clearly see that "you are doing the practice" and from that point onwards you should deal with the self or that level meditation.

Same way when you go to walking and after the dust disappear from "the going to walk" then you will get bored because you clearly become aware that you are walking, usually then some start to cry, decide to go back home or some start to make jokes over something... or whatever is ones karma.

Listeing someone talk, then after 40 min or so i lose any ability to make sense what one is talking..

Breadcrumb

(Part Two) 22. The Monk Who Tried Too Hard

Sona was the son of a rich businessman. He liked most of all to listen to lute music and to play the instrument. He had been raised in wealth and luxury, so his skin was very delicate and soft. It was even said that hair grew out of the skin of his soles. The rumour was so strong that Sona was once brought before King Bimbisara, who wanted to see the unusual feet he had heard so much about.Sona lived near the Vultures' Peak Rock in Rajagaha, where the Buddha stayed during some rainy seasons. One day,

Sona went to the Vultures' Peak Rock to listen to the Buddha's discourse, which was about the happiness experienced from non-attachment to worldly desires. As he wanted to experience this happiness, Sona asked to be ordained as a monk.

After becoming a monk, he was taught to be constantly mindful, even when walking. Sona was very enthusiastic. Every day he walked to and fro in meditation in the monastery until one day his feet developed blisters and bled.

But even after all his efforts Sona did not experience happiness, only pain and disappointment. Thoughts of craving for worldly things still came to his mind. "It is no use," Sona said to himself. "I have tried so very hard, but have still not achieved what I wished for. It is better for me to return to lay life and enjoy the happiness I used to experience by performing charity.

"When the Buddha heard about this he went to see Sona. "Sona," he said, "I have heard that you are not getting good results from your practice of mindfulness and want to return to the lay life. Suppose I explain why you did not get good results, would you stay on as a monk and try again?"

"Yes I would, Lord," replied Sona.

"Sona, you were a musician and you used to play the lute. Tell me, Sona, did you produce good music when the lute string was well tuned, neither too tight nor too loose?"

"I was able to produce good music, Lord," replied Sona.

"What happened when the strings were too tightly wound up?"

"I could not produce any music, Lord," said Sona."What happened when the strings were too slack?"

"I could not produce any music at all, Lord," replied Sona

"Sona, do you now see why you did not experience the happiness of renouncing worldly craving? You have been straining too hard in your meditation. Do it in a relaxed way, but without being slack. Try it again and you will experience the good result."

Sona understood and stayed on in the monastery as a monk and soon attained sainthood.


http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/buddhism/lifebuddha/2_22lbud.htm