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flow chart
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6/6/16 8:36 AM
Is there an enlightenment flow chart ?

RE: flow chart
Answer
6/6/16 9:48 AM as a reply to Stick Man.

RE: flow chart
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6/6/16 1:15 PM as a reply to neko.
As a Cockney would say - cor blimey guv!

So, I imagine you could start doing things with that - like writing instructions on the lines, and adding things like - "LSD takes you here or here", "Sex takes you here", "Jesus got to here", "Physics looks like this here, but like this here, and disappears here." ??

RE: flow chart
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6/6/16 7:33 PM as a reply to neko.
What are you using as Nirodha Criteria?

RE: flow chart
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6/6/16 10:21 PM as a reply to neko.
Hi neko,

Cool!

Could you explain the fork between "Three Doors" and "Change of Lineage"? This seems like two ways to get to the path moment.

Thanx!

RE: flow chart
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6/7/16 5:16 AM as a reply to svmonk.
Hey all!

This map is not mine, it is Daniel's!

Sorry for the misunderstanding! emoticon 


http://integrateddaniel.info/mind-maps-full-size/

RE: flow chart
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6/7/16 5:17 AM as a reply to svmonk.
svmonk:
Could you explain the fork between "Three Doors" and "Change of Lineage"? This seems like two ways to get to the path moment.

Again - not my map, but, according to Daniel, that is the difference between a repeat fruition and a path-grade fruition.

(I agree with him, it describes by experience adequately.)

RE: flow chart
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6/7/16 5:19 AM as a reply to Derek.
Derek:
What are you using as Nirodha Criteria?


From MCTB: Traditionally, anagamihood. Also, rising thriugh the jhanas/nanas with a balance of vipassana and samatha - basically through the midline of the graph.

RE: flow chart
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6/7/16 5:20 AM as a reply to Stick Man.
John:
As a Cockney would say - cor blimey guv!

So, I imagine you could start doing things with that - like writing instructions on the lines, and adding things like - "LSD takes you here or here", "Sex takes you here", "Jesus got to here", "Physics looks like this here, but like this here, and disappears here." ??


Yes, that is what Daniel does in MCTB. Haven't you read it?

RE: flow chart
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6/7/16 5:21 AM as a reply to svmonk.
This is Daniel's chart from his site: http://integrateddaniel.info/mind-maps/

This is a recording of Daniel explaining the chart:  https://vimeo.com/69475208

svmonk:
Could you explain the fork between "Three Doors" and "Change of Lineage"? This seems like two ways to get to the path moment. 

I wouldn't presume to know more about this than you, I'm moreso checking my knowledge here against other people's understandings.

My understanding is that the fruition will manifest through one of the 3 doors, regardless of whether it is a review fruition, or a path fruition.  The path fruition only happens once per major shift, whereas the review fruition repeats multiple times after that, until review matures.  Nanas 12, 13 & 14 are 'Conformity,' 'Change of Lineage,' and 'Path,' and only occur before the path fruition.  In a review fruition, it simply jumps from Nana 11 to Nana 15 & 16.

Practically, how this pans out is that there are those weird energetic effects and micro-moments where the baseline shift/rewiring occurs in path fruition.  These little trippy details are absent in the reveiw fruitions.

I think Daniel labelled that box 'Three doors' just for the sake of distinction.  

Derek:
What are you using as Nirodha Criteria?

Once again, just sharing thoughts, not trying to lecture at all.

Daniel put the 'Nirodha Lite' option out there to accomodate the variety of pragmatic dharma people, including myself, who have experienced some form of it.  I'm strongly convinced that the full NS is incredibly rare... like maybe 5 people in the greater pragmatic dharma community, ever.  And even within that, no one can repeat it reliably outside of retreat.

RE: flow chart
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6/7/16 5:25 AM as a reply to neko.
I've been nibbling at it on and off for the last few years, it's making a bit more sense to me lately.
I'm very impressed by the charts. Did the ancients ever draw anything as straightforward ?

RE: flow chart
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6/7/16 9:52 PM as a reply to Stick Man.
Hi John,

I don't think a flow chart but there's a text out there, the Abhidhamma, that describes the mind states leading up to the path moment. It's the 3rd "basket" in the Pali Canon. Some of the rest I think can be found in the Visuddhimagga, the 5th century meditation manual written by Buddhaghosa, a Sri Lankan monk. I don't know whether Daniel drew on those sources or more recent ones such as Mahsi Saydaw's Manual of Insight. Clearly, though, he's gone beyond these sources and incorporated his experience over the years.

RE: flow chart
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6/7/16 10:35 PM as a reply to Noah.
Ah, okay, so it is Daniel's Nirodha Criteria, as derived from Visuddhimagga paragraphs XXIII.31 et seq.