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Stream Entry

How does feeling special fit into stream entry

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Hello,

in MCTB 16 - Review Daniel writes "After attaining a path, particularly the early one, the feeling that one is special is common". Now how does this fit into the traditional notion of stream entry that a sotapanna frees himself from the fetter of self-view?

Thanks for your help!

RE: How does feeling special fit into stream entry
Answer
11/7/16 2:07 PM as a reply to Andreas Thef.
RE: How does feeling special fit into stream entry.

My experience: after 'MCTB'ish SE experience, a dramatric decline in defensive reactions.  A dramatic decline in selfish orientation with respet to the needs of all the people party to an interaction.  A significant decline in monkey-mind out-of-touch'ness with things *around* me.  These symptoms, to me, meet an operational definition of 'free from the fetter of self-view'.

Now, I totally grant that I may have experienced a watered down version of 'stream entry', but I do feel like I've experienced at least that.  All that said, I see this work, these transient experiences, these longer-term results are worthwhile and I surely want to share that with the rest of the world.

So in an operational sense, I think I'm special.  And in the statistical sense, a sotapanna surely is special in some way.  But I don't see having and recognizing and 'selling' an impactful journey as inconsistent with loss of self view.

RE: How does feeling special fit into stream entry
Answer
11/7/16 2:37 PM as a reply to Andreas Thef.
There isn't any contradiction. Anatta does not mean that thoughts about oneself do not form anymore. Stream entry does not prevent one from knowing what their name is, where they live, how tall they are, what colour their hair is, or having opinions about whether they are healthy, smart, musically talented, and so on. A person who is incapable of forming thoughts like those has some kind of brain damage.

Imagine someone who really sucks at singing. This guy knows he has a horrible voice and is tone-deaf. Then he hits stream entry, he breaks the fetter of self-view, and presto!, he forgets how bad his singing skills are, and tortures his wife with opera singing? emoticon 

RE: How does feeling special fit into stream entry
Answer
11/7/16 7:30 PM as a reply to Andreas Thef.
Andreas Thef:
Hello,

in MCTB 16 - Review Daniel writes "After attaining a path, particularly the early one, the feeling that one is special is common". Now how does this fit into the traditional notion of stream entry that a sotapanna frees himself from the fetter of self-view?

Thanks for your help!

Feeling special = maana = fetter #8 does not disappear until arahant 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetter_(Buddhism)#Sutta_Pitaka.27s_list_of_ten_fetters

RE: How does feeling special fit into stream entry
Answer
11/8/16 2:28 AM as a reply to Derek2.
Those are all very helpful comments for me. Thanks for sharing your experience and view.

RE: How does feeling special fit into stream entry
Answer
11/8/16 3:56 AM as a reply to Andreas Thef.
Bigbird:
Stream entry that the Buddha was talking about = MCTB 4th path, is one possibility.

If so how would you posit/map the rest of the paths?

RE: How does feeling special fit into stream entry
Answer
11/8/16 2:58 PM as a reply to Kim Katami.
Bigbird:
Of all the progress of insight descriptions, i find Daniels to be the best. The maps are very accurate in my experience, and when Daniel talks of a percepual shift that still stands to this day. I agree. I get it.
Over the years quite a few on the DHO and elsewhere have also had these experiences. The perceptual shift seems fairly consistent across the board. The level of freedom it gives seems to vary alot. Like a movie, where some think its the best ever, some think its great, others really good, and the odd one thinks its over rated.   
One thing that stands out, is that over time many realise there is more to do, and move on in their practice. This is a pattern. I dont know where they go.
Its my experience that after the progress of insight, which is a pretty wild ride, the next stage begins. Maps, pragmatism, strong resolutions and such, dont work so well and are best left behind.
Things like precepts, energy, devotion, solitude, letting go of worldly affairs, and most but not all of what is considered part of the mushroom culture, become priceless. 
If you ask me to choose a model, its the fetters.
A map, its a long time. Maybe even longer.emoticon 

My observation of the people that I work with is the same reg. "the level of freedom it gives seems to vary...", though I wouldn't coontinue to say " a lot". But it's the same here, for me personally it was the best ever (for about 10 months) while to some of my friends at OH it's really overrated. Yes, there really is more to go. A lot more. MCTB 4th path isn't buddhahood but to me at least a nice stop on the way emoticon

I've thought about the same thing, that, "One thing that stands out, is that over time many realise there is more to do, and move on in their practice. This is a pattern. I dont know where they go." I've tried to find this out and have offered help in this regard but other than one person who got to MCTB 4th path, no other 4th path ever contacted me. I've been hoping for DhO to be developed beyond MCTB 4th path but I am not seeing indications of that. On the other hand, what's wonderful about DhO is that the force is strong in it reg. MCTB 1st-4th paths emoticon

RE: How does feeling special fit into stream entry
Answer
11/10/16 4:21 PM as a reply to Kim Katami.
Paweł K:
Kim Katami:
I've thought about the same thing, that, "One thing that stands out, is that over time many realise there is more to do, and move on in their practice. This is a pattern. I dont know where they go." I've tried to find this out and have offered help in this regard but other than one person who got to MCTB 4th path, no other 4th path ever contacted me. I've been hoping for DhO to be developed beyond MCTB 4th path but I am not seeing indications of that. On the other hand, what's wonderful about DhO is that the force is strong in it reg. MCTB 1st-4th paths emoticon
You cannot develop DhO into anything when you do not post any dharma and only try to use DhO as advertising platform.

OH:
R's 6th bhumi/4th path, filmed 6/2016
R's 7th bhumi, filmed 7/2016
R's 8th bhumi, filmed 8/2016
R's 9th bhumi, filmed 9/2016

Really?
Lol. That's hilarious.

Reg. Visiting, opening and perfecting of bhumis. Someone else posted this piece of mine here before but I couldn't find it, so reposting.

Visiting mahasiddha/high bhumis... (can be done in various ways, taking/chanting Three or Four refuges is one of those).

Opening of bhumi means that the disc/plate/bhumi gets a permanent hole to it. Like a small hole in the center of a plate. From here there is rest of the plate to be perfected. Opening of bhumis is like deepening of insight/vipashyana. You get to see brand new panoramas with each bhumi.

All videos I've posted are about opening of bhumis.

Perfection of bhumis. This means that ones experience covers the whole plate, not just a small hole or a bigger hole in the center...

Visiting can be done succesfully by anyone with mindfulness skills and technique. Opening bhumis requires further know-how. And opening them gets slower after the 6th in general but not necessarily. With a proper method bhumis 1-10 can be opened relatively quickly, in several cases I know in a few years time and in a couple of cases in 6-7 months but perfecting them takes relatively longer. Perfecting bhumis as opening of them seems to be related to ones motivation.

Addition: Btw. The mentioned gentleman R is going to film a video of himself going through the jhanic arc which I'll then map into bhumis, as mentioned above about visiting bhumis.