Pawel's Relief as observed through the 5 hindrances

Carlos, modified 7 Years ago at 11/25/16 6:17 PM
Created 7 Years ago at 11/25/16 6:17 PM

Pawel's Relief as observed through the 5 hindrances

Posts: 5 Join Date: 2/11/15 Recent Posts
Hello everyone, long time lurker, recent poster.

My practice consists of using a lose-the-5-hindrances aproach for kickstarting jhana-like states. Recently, I realized an issue with my meditation practice stems from an involuntary will/intention to 'close-and-go' or 'finish'. My issue was that instructions for Jhanas would only work for me when trying them for the first time. Soon after, they stopped working and I found myself dissapointed and without a clue of what to do then. These feelings (vicikiccha) would discourage me from using the instructions in the future prompting me to find new ones restarting the cycle.

The insight:

kamachanda: In following instructions one seeks a perfect combo that will induce a finished state.
thina-middha: In following instructions one seeks a fool-proof recipe that frees you from having to maintain a creative improvisation mindset.

Going through the threads I observed that Pawel W proposed this idea already in a recent post (Relief is dukkha). He mentions "Not giving in to it (relief) and operating completely without it is in my humble opinion key practice". Pawel's position on relief provides an alternate solution for the classic advice for the above: "maintain a begginers mind"(thina-middha), "do not strive for jhana"(kamachanda).

kamachanda: In following instructions one seeks a perfect combo that will induce a (relief) state.
thina-middha: In following instructions one seeks a fool-proof recipe that (relief) frees you from having to maintain a creative improvisation mindset.

It seems that Jhana absorption is not constrained by instructions and instead benefits from context-dependent strategies that are not reproducible in the scientific sense.
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Noah D, modified 7 Years ago at 11/26/16 12:26 AM
Created 7 Years ago at 11/26/16 12:25 AM

RE: Pawel's Relief as observed through the 5 hindrances

Posts: 1211 Join Date: 9/1/16 Recent Posts
Hi Carlos,

This is an interesting topic.  I suspect that Pawel is operating at a very refined level of awareness (which can be hard to understand) and that he has used the perception of synesthesia to get there (which can be hard to understand).  So I wouldn't necessarily put all my eggs in that basket.  That being said, he says really interesting things, and if they inspire you, or if you resonate with them at a deeper level, use that!

In general (general is the keyword), there are two Theravadan camps on how to deal with the hindrances while purposely doing samatha-vipassana.  The Burmese camp tends to advise the cultivation of nonreactive equanimity to the hindrances by using the breath as an anchor and noting any other major objects as they arise.  The Thai camp tends to advise a much more purposeful countering, minimzing or otherwise treating of the hindrances, believing that there is a naturally joyful & clean citta which will eventually be uncovered through this process.  

Of central import in all yogically-oriented schools of Buddhism is the notion that your psychological conditioning, behavioral habituation, and emotional regulation processes must be purposely cultivated outside of meditation to optimize the mind for meditation.  There are lots of ways to deal with the hindrances off-cushion.  Here are a few that I have found useful:

1 - Counter with a negative opposite (love for anger, disgust for gluttony & lust, gladness for restlessness)
2 - Practice optimism, gratitude and appreciation (inner storylines, narratives, affirmations, observations, etc.)
3 - Be mindful throughout the day as much as possible (focus on breath)
4 - Change your interpersonal behavior (purposely smile & ask others about themselves, etc.)

The effort to reduce the hindrances is just one peice of the puzzle.  Being choiceless aware of them is the other side.  Pawel is talking about being choiceless aware of everything at the same time, which ultimately results in resonating at a higher frequency (that of the field itself).  When the knowingness is completely synched up with the field, the objects within it are no problem - thus the idea that 'relief' is dukkha.  But to get there yourself, I'd advise taking some purposeful action against imbalances.  
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Supreme Maharishi Bhumi 1000, modified 7 Years ago at 1/10/17 8:08 AM
Created 7 Years ago at 11/27/16 10:19 AM

RE: Pawel's Relief as observed through the 5 hindrances

Posts: 55 Join Date: 10/14/16 Recent Posts
Carlos, modified 7 Years ago at 11/29/16 3:58 AM
Created 7 Years ago at 11/29/16 3:58 AM

RE: Pawel's Relief as observed through the 5 hindrances

Posts: 5 Join Date: 2/11/15 Recent Posts
Hi Noah:

Thanks for your response. I was not aware that Pawel was operating from this perspective (synesthesia), but I definitely resonated with some conclusions emoticon . Now that you mention the off the cussion practice, I have also observed that my way of thinking spillovers into the practice (Maybe thats why I meditate better on the weekends and mornings).

Reading your tips,
I also think affirmations are very important off the cussion. From the 5-hindrances POV I came to the same conclusion because explicitly specifying in your mind what you(r) expect(possition is) is a vicikiccha preventive measure. Otherwise I may get into a (Dont know where your going does not matter which street you take) when aiming for a (Know which turns not to do take to get myself out of the confusing-cluttered city center).
*I prevent anger differently, I have to be very certain about something to hate it. But as long as I remember that most things are very ill-defined I cannot really be mad about something.

I think all the in-cussion buisness is very difficult to describe, no wonder there are multiple interpretations (Burmese, Thai) for the hindrances. Personally, I dont think there is much room to maneuver these concepts in-cussion without limiting the depth of the meditation.
Nevertheless, the 5-hindrances do resonate with me when reviewing my in-cussion findings/insights/feelings/experience. I think, taking decisions now off-cussion that prevent hindrance-triggers later (in and off) is the best option at this point.

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