Requirements to reach meditation goal

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B Lejon, modified 7 Years ago at 11/29/16 2:58 AM
Created 7 Years ago at 11/28/16 6:47 AM

Requirements to reach meditation goal

Posts: 29 Join Date: 11/27/16 Recent Posts
Hi everyone!

I'm in need of help with a practice 'schedule/routine'.

I meditate everyday and that is what I wish to do for the rest of my life and my goals are very good concentration and mindfulness. I would like to attain jhana at least once everyday and then do some insight meditation as well. Preferably I would like to start everyday like this then go on with my relations and duties for the rest of the day. If I can do this I would be very pleased.

At least this is my first goal, who knows what that would lead me to next.

Do you guys think this is a reasonable, achievable and realistic goal.

I do not wish to be fully enlightened, at least not now, but sotapanna would be very nice from what I know. My main goal though is having a well developed and trained mind/brain i.e good concentration and mindfulness. I want to be aware of this life and of my actions and no longer waste my life away in unawareness.

I do not care what path/practice that will lead me there, I'm open for both samatha and vipassana even though I until now almost only done concentration meditation and that is the technique I'm familiar with.

I have a lot of time for meditation everyday though sometimes I work more and have less time to meditate. I can at least meditate 3-4 hours a day without problem, 6 or more hours most days.

The reason I come here is because I do not have a teacher and it is very hard to find one. I'm also tired of all the information on the internet that only leads me in circles, confusion or nowhere. It is a jungle and I need some guidance and when I search for information I often end up at dharmaoverground.org. I therefore registered today to see if your combined knowledge and experience can help me reach my goal.

Right now I'm on my way to build up my sitting duration to 2 hours and at the moment I can sit 30 minutes about 5-6 times a day without any problems and will increase the time to 40 minutes tomorrow. I think that by the end of the year I will sit for more than an hour every sitting and about 4-5 sittings per day, this is a comfortable schedule for me.

But I'm willing to put all my routines, knowledge end experience a side and listen to what you guys have to say that can lead me to my goal.

If you need to know anything else please just ask!

I really appreciate all the help and pointers I can get because the internet is full of information that will have me running in circles a good while.
pamojja, modified 7 Years ago at 11/28/16 6:57 AM
Created 7 Years ago at 11/28/16 6:57 AM

RE: Meditation practice/routine

Posts: 20 Join Date: 11/18/16 Recent Posts
B Lejon:
I really appreciate all the help and pointers I can get because the internet is full of information that will have me running in circles a good while.

What helped me in the beginning is having done a serious 10-day vipassana retreat. After that you know how to practice in and out, though that wont spare you from running in cycles ;-). At least not in your head, and with serious practice in place, progress will naturaly follow in it's own time. A teacher can't do that for you.

Best luck.
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B Lejon, modified 7 Years ago at 11/28/16 8:07 AM
Created 7 Years ago at 11/28/16 8:03 AM

RE: Meditation practice/routine

Posts: 29 Join Date: 11/27/16 Recent Posts
Thanks pamojja!

I think I got the techniques down pretty good. What I'm looking/asking for is more of a schedule of how much meditation is required for my goals and what kind of meditation to reach my goals.

Sorry for confusing post/question. I did not know how much info to add to the post.

Basically what I ask is for a routine/schedule with minimum time requirements to build up enough concentration to have the ability to attain jhana at will everyday.

I read on the internet everything from 20 minutes a day up to 3 sittings of 3 hours per day...I would like to know I little bit more specific of what really is enough. How many hours maximum between sittings would also be nice to know, how fast concentration drains and stuff.

This kind of stuff takes years to try and figure out by myself.

What is the requirements to build up enough concentration to be able to attain jhana everyday at will?
That is my question when everything else is cut out.

Sorry for all confusing information I drowned my question in.
pamojja, modified 7 Years ago at 11/28/16 8:52 AM
Created 7 Years ago at 11/28/16 8:52 AM

RE: Meditation practice/routine

Posts: 20 Join Date: 11/18/16 Recent Posts
B Lejon:
What is the requirements to build up enough concentration to be able to attain jhana everyday at will?
That is my question when everything else is cut out.


Ok. Now I understand. Sorry, but my answer still wont be satisfying to you. I practiced 2 years Anapana Sati at Pha-Auk forest meditation monastery. Under these retreat circumstances and with qualified teachers teaching jhanas I observed every posibility. Some had it in rather a short time, like a couple of weeks, some still count their breath up to 10 each round after 20 years of practice.

So it depends. Personally I would advise to experiment with different shedules to see which fits you best at different times
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B Lejon, modified 7 Years ago at 11/28/16 9:31 AM
Created 7 Years ago at 11/28/16 9:31 AM

RE: Requirements to reach meditation goal

Posts: 29 Join Date: 11/27/16 Recent Posts
Maybe your answer would satisfy me more if you let me know what you think the requirements would be for you personally and that would give me an example and if many did the same maybe I would get a very good average starting point. Now it's like I have to do all that trial and error by myself and as I said that can take years and that is what I hope dharmaoverground maybe could help me shorten quite a bit.

I appreciate you reading my thread and helping me out.
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Malte, modified 7 Years ago at 11/28/16 10:05 AM
Created 7 Years ago at 11/28/16 10:05 AM

RE: Requirements to reach meditation goal

Posts: 38 Join Date: 4/24/15 Recent Posts
I read parts of this thread and I think your goals are fine. I would recommend as a teacher Tucker Peck, www.meditatewithtucker.com, and his eSangha, that's who I use as teacher. Also Culadasas book The Mind Illuminated is a great practical guide which complements for example Ingrams MCTB I think which among other sources will aid you in your strivings (which seems to be similar to my own strivings). Good luck, mate!
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synelg, modified 7 Years ago at 11/28/16 12:54 PM
Created 7 Years ago at 11/28/16 12:53 PM

RE: Requirements to reach meditation goal

Posts: 63 Join Date: 9/26/16 Recent Posts
Hi B Legon

I've only been meditating 4 months, so please take that into account with my answer.  

I don't believe you'll get a definitive answer to 'how long to meditate'.   The reason you find different answers all over the net is that it differs for everyone.   Also, some techniques seem to be faster than others etc etc.

I have been reading of one person who has only done 45 minutes a day for 200 days who seems to have reached what you call 'sotopana'.   Others practice for hours and years not achieving.   I feel I'm making good progress with between 45 minutes and 2 or 3 hours a day following Culadasa.   It all depends....  how long is a piece of string?...

I'm sorry, I know your looking for a more absolute answer, but I don't think there is one.  Good luck.
pamojja, modified 7 Years ago at 11/28/16 1:17 PM
Created 7 Years ago at 11/28/16 1:17 PM

RE: Requirements to reach meditation goal

Posts: 20 Join Date: 11/18/16 Recent Posts
B Lejon:
Maybe your answer would satisfy me more if you let me know what you think the requirements would be for you personally and that would give me an example and if many did the same maybe I would get a very good average starting point.

I would do it from rising to going asleep. Not everyone has that much time. And to some it would build up too much strain instead of the ease neccessary.
Matt, modified 7 Years ago at 11/28/16 2:19 PM
Created 7 Years ago at 11/28/16 1:43 PM

RE: Requirements to reach meditation goal

Posts: 316 Join Date: 1/14/14 Recent Posts
B Lejon:
...

I meditate everyday and that is what I wish to do for the rest of my life and my goals are very good concentration and mindfulness. I would like to attain jhana at least once everyday and then do some insight meditation as well. Preferably I would like to start everyday like this then go on with my relations and duties for the rest of the day. If I can do this I would be very pleased.

...
I do not wish to be fully enlightened, at least not now, but sotapanna would be very nice from what I know. My main goal though is having a well developed and trained mind/brain i.e good concentration and mindfulness. I want to be aware of this life and of my actions and no longer waste my life away in unawareness.

I do not care what path/practice that will lead me there, I'm open for both samatha and vipassana even though I until now almost only done concentration meditation and that is the technique I'm familiar with.

I have a lot of time for meditation everyday though sometimes I work more and have less time to meditate. I can at least meditate 3-4 hours a day without problem, 6 or more hours most days.
...


Here's a very hip-shot response.  I personally think an hour twice a day is enough to make great strides towards your stated goals.  You may achieve them much sooner than you think possible.  Finding time to do a 10 day retreat will jump you dramatically closer, or *way* beyond your stated goals.  I believe sitting for an hour twice a day is worth *much* more than sitting for 30 minutes 4 times per day.

Pre 'Stream Entry', in a given 'sit', I'd usually hit my bleeding edge at around 30-45 minutes of sitting, then I might move beyond my bleeding edge between 45 and 60 minutes.  So 60 minute sits might move you noticably along the path every day.  Get familiar with your bleeding edge, then try to repeat those conditions as often as possible.

Don't forget 'Sila'.  If your life is in turmoil it will be much harder to achieve your goals on the cushion, so in that case figuring out how to tame the turmoil may be a better way to spend your time than sitting on a cushion.  That said, progress in life and progress on the cushion lead each other onward, so ideally you never stop putting effort in each of those rehlms.

The book 'Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha' covers all this territory very well, and something with that level of detail should be on your priority reading list.  Your level of practice can produce dramatic, confusing and potenitially destabliizing experinces.  Arm your self with knowledge of good practices and potential pitfalls from those practices.  If you have not heard about the potential pitfalls, you are on thin ice now.

A great way to find a teacher is to create a practice thread here on DhO or elsewhere, post every day about your practice and see who/what comes to your aide.  Regular contact with a teacher can be of great, great value to your practice.

Based on everything you've said, I think 'stream entry' should be your goal.  It seems like you have the time to do that.  Why is that not your goal?
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B Lejon, modified 7 Years ago at 11/28/16 6:44 PM
Created 7 Years ago at 11/28/16 6:43 PM

RE: Requirements to reach meditation goal

Posts: 29 Join Date: 11/27/16 Recent Posts
matthew sexton:


Get familiar with your bleeding edge, then try to repeat those conditions as often as possible.

....

Based on everything you've said, I think 'stream entry' should be your goal.  It seems like you have the time to do that.  Why is that not your goal?

'Bleeding edge', what do you mean by that expression.

I would like to attain stream entry but I don't know how to so that's why it's  not my main goal right now. I would love to hear what you have to say about how to attain it though.

Thanks for all answers and reading recommendations, I will check it out.
Matt, modified 7 Years ago at 11/28/16 9:01 PM
Created 7 Years ago at 11/28/16 9:01 PM

RE: Requirements to reach meditation goal

Posts: 316 Join Date: 1/14/14 Recent Posts
B Lejon:
matthew sexton:


Get familiar with your bleeding edge, then try to repeat those conditions as often as possible.

....

Based on everything you've said, I think 'stream entry' should be your goal.  It seems like you have the time to do that.  Why is that not your goal?

'Bleeding edge', what do you mean by that expression.

I would like to attain stream entry but I don't know how to so that's why it's  not my main goal right now. I would love to hear what you have to say about how to attain it though.

Thanks for all answers and reading recommendations, I will check it out.

Disclaimer: I have limited background, all in the 'pragmatic dharma' tradition, as described here and in the book I mentioned.  It's all rooted in the Theravada school of Buddhism.

My understanding of Vipassana practice is to develop concentration and use that to focus on awareness and nature of sensate experience.  Mindfulness is developed along the way.  Insight into the nature of experience is developed.  This path is called the 'progress of insight', it's broken down into 16 levels of advancement.  Ya gotta read the book(s)! emoticon

Your personal 'bleeding edge' is how aware you are of your experience, from annoying monkey mind or simple knee pain at one end of the spectrum, to the impermanent nature of your sense of self at the other end.  How quickly can you notice a change in those sensations, as each comes and goes?  How small a change in those sensations are you aware of?

Here in the 'pragmatic' tradition, it's assumed that someone that has a few weeks here and there for a few retreats, has a few hours a day to practice off-retreat, has a good teacher, has a stable life, this person can dramatically change their experience of the world around them in certain ways, and this is stream entry.  People will argue about whether this is the stream entry of the Pali Cannon, or something kinda made up since then, or pure delusion or bravado.  Lots of arguments there!  But if you can find people who are experienced and optimistic and helpful, avoid the arguments and sit a lot and you're gonna get there, possibly within a year or two.  It has it's ups and downs, so read up, find a teacher and stick with it!
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B Lejon, modified 7 Years ago at 11/29/16 2:57 AM
Created 7 Years ago at 11/29/16 2:57 AM

RE: Requirements to reach meditation goal

Posts: 29 Join Date: 11/27/16 Recent Posts
Thanks for your time and info!

I think I will continue on my samatha path until I have absorption concentration and then I will start with vipassana and then if I find a teacher I will go for stream entry.

In this thread you have given me a lot of new information and I will use it wisely to help my practice as much as possible.

Thanks everybody!

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