Due to being stuck in dark night for years I told myself I didn't want to have anything to do with spirituality.

Visiting this forum after a long haitus has sparked an interest, however.

I'm somewhat familiar with Buddhism but I don't understand the terminology. I had a different path.

I am curious. How does one get stream entry after leaving dark night behind?

Is formal meditation actually required?

Please only respond if you have attained stream entry yourself.

I have no idea what nana, dukkha, or anything of the other words mean.

So please use plain english.

Read MCTB. It is all explained there. It's not like a 400 pages book can be condensed in a forum post. If it could, Daniel would have written a forum post, not a 400 pages book.

Besides, the book is available for free download ---> Direct link to MCTB

* Good news: It is written in plain English. Then you'll know what nana and dukkha actually mean.

* Bad news: You will actually have to make an effort and get informed.

* Good news: Reading a 400 pages book is a good investment for getting out of the dark night, if indeed you are in it.

Also strongly consider checking out Culadasa's The Mind Illuminated

as well as Shinzen Young's stuff

as well as the original Mahasi Sayadaw material, such as Practical Insight Meditation

as well as the ever popular A Path with Heart, by Jack Kornfield, which, while it has its fluffy elements, still is a good foundation for many things, particularly if you pay attention to the technical details

Bhante Gunaratana's Mindfulness in Plain English also is very worth it

as is Sayadaw U Jotika's A Map of the Journey

We all don't emphasize the same things or even agree entirely on all the key points, but that material is all very useful and empowering.

More important than anything is your own repeating of the experiment

Daniel

I got stream entry by going to a meditation retreat center and noting as quickly as I could for 8 straight days.

Noting is just observing where your attention is every moment. So, saying to yourself "rising" for breathing in, "falling" for breathing out, and "touching" for any physical sensation, it looks like "rising rising touching rising falling touching touching", etc.

You can add in other notes like thinking, seeing, hearing, etc.

Thanks to all for the feedback.

I don't do well with books that use eastern language or even books from different teachers.

I get really confused with all that shit.

For the human component I'm going to stick with "The 6 pillars of self-esteem."

That's what got me out of dark night so I know I can trust it.

For the mindfulness component a bare bones simple book will likely suffice.

I resonate with what JC said the most.

I destroyed about 70% of my life while in DN but managed to salvage about 30%.

I attribute that to noting.

It's pretty much just noting, noting, noting, all day long. Retreats are really helpful for that because the effect builds up - noting 10 hours a day for 8 days straight can get you a lot farther than 1 hour a day for 80 days.

A couple of other things i found helpful in getting there:

Make a lot of resolutions to get to stream entry as quickly as possible for the good of all beings.

Try looking at each of the three characteristics in turn, then two at a time, then combine them all. Are you familiar with them at all?

At a certain point you have to stop doing it and just let it happen. Until then, note as fast as you can as much as you can.

Getting in concentration states before noting sessions, or on the first few days of retreat, also helps a lot. Concentration states are where you focus on, say, the flow of your breathing, and just get in the groove of it, letting your attention stay on your breathing. Daniel said at one point that it's like slow sex, which I found helpful.

Thanks for the feedback JC.

This sounds like a massive commitment. Right now I spend my free time surfing, hanging out with friends, and doing yoga. Because I spend most of the day behind a desk staring at a computer, I feel that all these things are necessary to stay healthy and feel like life is worth living. Without these things I get depressed.

Yes, I am familiar with the three characteristics. The question I have is if it's necessary to notice the three characteristics or if it's enough to notice thoughts and sensations and keep returning to the breath.

The other question I have is how can sensations be unsatisfactory? The only thing I can think of is that I get annoyed by sounds when I'm trying to pay attention to the breath. The sound of the refrigerator annoys the living crap out of me ;)

Hi Ivory! My understanding of the "unsatisfactory" nature of sensations, the "dukkha", is this: Sensations (all phenomena?) are experienced as "pleasant," "unpleasant," or "neutral" (neither pleasant nor unpleasant.) If a sensation is pleasant, it's unsatisfying because it's temporary, and/or it could me more pleasant, and/or it leaves you wanting more. We're never really satisfied with pleasant sensations: we crave something from them.

Unpleasant sensations are seemingly straightforward, though, really, when you see the unsatisfactory nature of pleasant sensations it's a lo less obvious what the difference is!

I'm not really 100% clear on the dukkha of neutral sensations: I can't even bring one to mind easily. I guess it might be something along the lines of boredom, craving excitement, something like that.

I hope this helps!

I did almost all the work on two 10-day retreats. Other than that I just meditated 30-60 minutes a few times a week. Surfing sounds like a massive commitment to me, though!



It's not enough to keep returning to the breath. That's concentration meditation, not insight meditation.
What you need to do for stream entry is to look really really closely at your reality to notice something. The three characteristics are the three directions you can approach what you're trying to notice from, so yes, you do have to specifically notice them.



It's not really the sensations that are unsatisfactory. The unsatisfactoriness is kind of an overlay that covers everything. It's a restlessness. It's a yearning. It's a feeling like something needs to be done or fixed.

It's the feeling of "what should I do now?" It's the feeling of imperfection - that something, somewhere, is wrong. It's the feeling that what you have now isn't enough. It's the part of the current moment that you're not totally accepting.

It goes away after 4th path - but even then, the fridge will still annoy you.

So all I have to do is notice any one of the three characteristics? Or all three of them?

The follow up observation+question is that a lot of this stuff becomes apparent when the mind has settled and curiousity about what's happening arises. The it's like, "Huh, what is this wacky shit happening over here? I thought it had more substance than this."

When I meditate I notice that sense objects appear when I put my attention on them. In fact, it's apparent right now. It also appears that hand sensation and foot sensation are the same thing. That the impermanent characteristic right?

Sufing is not so much a commitment. It's hard to beat to beat a fun workout in nature.

Once you catch your first wave your are hooked for life dude! 

Here's a point of view on unsatisfactory: 30 years ago I worked in an ambulance and saw plenty of injuries caused by riding motorcycles.  Since then, whenever I've heard a motorcycle, the sound kicks off a discursive train of thought about motorcycles.  Sometimes I recognize it, sometimes I don't.  After my vipassana practice started kicking in, I had an experience: I heard a motorcycle, a very subtle train of thought about motorcycles fired up, I realized, 'this feels yucky'..... 'oh, this is suffering'.  In that moment, a gap opened up between 'me' and the yucky feeling monkey-brain activities.

My understanding of suffering deepens whenever I realize my mind is in a discursive pattern that is not helpful, I notice that and space between the event and my awareness, and that seems like a good thing.  Sometimes I see/hear/feel/smell/taste/think something and I then notice a kind of pregnant yet empty space in my awareness, and I realzie that I'm *not* experiencing my 'normal' reactions to the event.

About your practice: there's gotta be some kind of practice that you will feel is time well spent.  It might be anywhere.  Try to find it.  Practice leads to change.  Go for it!