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5-MeO-DMT, reversal?

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5-MeO-DMT, reversal?
Answer
2/20/17 8:27 AM
Hello everyone, this is my first post here, as I need assistance and opinions. 
I had been seeking for about a year, combining meditative practices with insightful psychedelic use. However, I mistakenly took a blotter of 5MeO with an MAOI, thinking it was LSD like always. That was about a month ago. Even though I realized it was not LSD at the time it hit, I completely surrendered as there was no way back. Everything I had been compiling from the previous year of seeking fell into place ( I had built a model out of the whole experience), to the point were I discarded it all and just merged with no self. I thought that just like any other psychedelic experience, I would return back to my normal life and integrate what I had learned into myself, but no self returned. Now a month later, I am still experiencing life in that nondualistic manner. My perception is purely outwards, without any presence of an internal self or an inner space in which I exist in. I have lost all movie like qualities to my life, and all imaginative and role playing traits I used to have. 
I am here to ask for help, help to reverse what I thought would be in my interest. I understand the truthful nature of this experience, with the absence of role plays, identities, movies, and what not. But I am only 20 years old, and I feel like my entire life has been stripped away from me, my ambitions, dreams, motives, fears, drives, expectations, personality, you name it. I am left with my true self, and the true world, and a miniscule ego that is momentary and only able to pursue what it is doing in the moment, like pleading for help on this forum, but I am in complete rejection, and I really need assistance on reversing back to how I was. I have been in complete identification with this ego ever since the experience, simply because I want it as my identity again. Are there any medical procedures, any medications, any practices, literally anything I can do to just retrieve what I have lost, even if what I have lost was not even there to begin with, even if it was only an illusion. Would my continual identification with my ego gradually plunge me back into it? I don't intend to forget, nor intend to deny the truth. I only intend to live my life the way I know how to live it, and I do not know how to live like this nor want to live like this. All suggestions are appreciated, Thank you for your time. 

RE: 5-MeO-DMT, reversal?
Answer
2/20/17 11:18 AM as a reply to Ahmad John Khalif.
hey Ahmad!
Wow what a fascinating circumstance....although I appreciate that's probably not the light you are experiencing it with currently.

I cant speak to medications etc

A couple of things might interest you though is
1. If it is permanent (I dont think necessarily a month is enough time to determine that, which I'll get to) I heard of a similar case of a woman in Paris I think who got sick, and just one of those things, she recovered her health but found herself in a permanent non-dual state. This upset her tremendously, but fortunately for her someone recognised her condition and got in contact with some enlightened dudes (I think Christopher Titmus was one of them) and they kind of taught her how to live it, and as far as memory serves it was a positive outcome. Probably others may remember this better than me.

2. I had a similar experience after a zen kensho. Everything was out there. I didnt know what 'non-dual' was at the time, but from the few details you give, it probably wasnt as 'clean' as yours. Nevertheless it wasnt until over a month later I had the distinct feeling of the world getting sucked back into my head. I was terribly disappointed by this in contrast. What I speculated at the time was the cause of this was immersion in dualist culture and people. A self is inferred by EVERYTHING in the cultural world, and the brain kind of synced up with the dominant cultural paradigm subconsciously and automatically, so perhaps a means of accelerating 're-membering' your 'self' would be to immerse yourself in books, films, the social world, any diaries, people from your past as much as possible. Think neuro-plasticity!

Lastly, chances are you'll get lots of questions from people here who currently live more or less in non-dual worlds, to gauge whether your experience syncs up with their experience...so to speed things up I hope you might answer a few questions:

How do you recognise this 'small ego'?
You write "all imaginative and role playing traits" have disappeared...can you give an example of what you could do before but not now?
You write "my entire life has been stripped away from me, my ambitions, dreams, motives, fears, drives, expectations, personality", so what do you do now day to day?
Do you have an inner voice?
Do you feel fear, tenderness, concern etc?

hope some of that was useful...

btw where are you roughly geographically?

RE: 5-MeO-DMT, reversal?
Answer
2/20/17 11:32 AM as a reply to supaluqi.
1) I recognize it as a voice that I hold onto constantly in hopes of not drifting away into complete non duality anymore.
2) I could be in a social context, and simply be the role that I assume I am, either the intelligent guy, or the awesome guy, or whatever role I assume to be myself and that serves my situation. Now I am just completely naked, as I am. I would also be driving for example, with the skyline of the city in front of me, and would go into my imagination of how the world has become, how we as a humanity have developed so far, and compare it to historical times, then to renaissance times, all inside my head using my imagination. Now it is as if that inner space is gone, and there is just the world. 
3) What I do now day to day is live like the creature that I am, when I eat I eat, when I feel tired I lay down, when I am nostalgic to myself I listen to music I used to like, when I go into panic mode to fix the situation I am in I go into forums like I just did and plead for help. 
4) I am only cycling between emotions of concern for myself, depression, regret for what I have done, and complete panic mainly due to the very different perception I have now. 
Now that I look into it, it definitely was not 5MeODMT as it was on a blotter. I am in Beirut. 

RE: 5-MeO-DMT, reversal?
Answer
2/20/17 12:05 PM as a reply to Ahmad John Khalif.
IMHO, since this was drug-induced, don't be surprised if this non-dual reality slips away (reverts) on its own, over time. Psychedelics can really shake a person up, and I've had psychedelic-induced experiences that, at the time, convinced me 100% how I perceived reality had changed forever, but if I reflect back on those experiences after many years have passed, I can say that they seemed much bigger, permanent, and life-changing at the time. The insights were true and genuine, extraordinary palpable for a very long time, and surely changed how I think about the world and what's possible, but with years of hindsight, it's clear they only allowed me to "peak behind the curtain," not tear it off the wall.

RE: 5-MeO-DMT, reversal?
Answer
2/20/17 12:06 PM as a reply to Ahmad John Khalif.
Given that this is a drug induced non-duality experience, it is most likely at some point to reverse by itself. At least that's the pattern I have seen around me, and what I have heard from teachers. (one teacher told me that it reverses often just around the time that the person starts to enjoy it, after the initial freakout)

You could also try grounding exercises, like eating fatty food, exercise, lifting heavy things, etc.

Alternatively, find an enlightened teacher that can help guide you with this new way of perceiving.

This video by Shinzen Young on DP/DR might be useful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zIKQCwDXsA

RE: 5-MeO-DMT, reversal?
Answer
2/20/17 3:24 PM as a reply to Ahmad John Khalif.
I agree with the other posters that think this is probably not a permanent situation. What looks sort of non-dual is missing a number of components I don't hear you mentioning, and much of the life-changing surety that such an understanding would lend you.

As someone who has experimented with psychoactive chemicals myself with both good and bad effects, I'd also encourage you to remember that these are teaching substances, and teaching isn't always enjoyable. Consider this a temporary condition, but not one without some opportunities for exploration and understanding. Every part of this pattern is a result of previous and future conditions.

RE: 5-MeO-DMT, reversal?
Answer
2/21/17 7:31 AM as a reply to Ahmad John Khalif.
So to summarise:
It seems what you're experiencing has non-dual characteristics, but probably is not a full non-dual experience and that the likelihood is that things will change.
IF, as seems to be the majority view on this forum, that psychedelics can induce A&P experiences, and your experience is more like an A&P, currently you may be sliding into 'Dark Night' territory (read MCTB ) . If this is the case, 'you're on the ride' and should read:

http://www.dharmaoverground.org/discussion/-/message_boards/message/6023417

Which contains excellent advice (esp. Wing and Richard Zen's posts).

Lastly, just to note, after my Kensho/a&p experience, not knowing what was going on and before resources such as this website were available, I barely avoided being hospitalised in a mental institution, and did end up in jail for one night! However, I seriously doubt that will happen to you, as you've been sensible enough to reach out to others...these kinds of experiences need to be grounded in communities who at least in part have shared your experience, this mitigates 'the stranger in a strange land' aspect.

hope that helps emoticon

RE: 5-MeO-DMT, reversal?
Answer
2/21/17 5:35 AM as a reply to Ahmad John Khalif.
I definitely relate to the sense of panic. I was using MCTB inspired meditation practices and one shift definitely took me into territory where I wondered about my ability to function.

What I learned:

Context helps. Reading about others who were living with other variations of the same experience helped – the forums, books.

Teachers helped. I read and listened to Adyashant – who talks of a similar ”end of your world”. Eventually I went on retreat with him. I worked with Kenneth Folk – noticing impermance – even the parts of this I found distressing changed, also just working on how to live with whatever this is. I also worked with Mukti – Adya’s wife. From her I learned to look at how what was left of me was taking a current experience, where I had noticed I was different then gotten anxious about it then spun it up into panic about the future. In reality the situation had been different and odd but not really dangerous - I was able to function - different but still functioning, Once I saw that the panic ended.

Form and structure help. Suggestion. Don’t abandon the form of your life. Even if the motivation is gone - Keep as much of the form as you can for now. At the very least it will provide structure.

RE: 5-MeO-DMT, reversal?
Answer
2/24/17 5:40 PM as a reply to Ahmad John Khalif.
"There is probably no greater fear man can have than loss of his self-identity – end up with no awareness of himself at all. This is because there is no greater sense of self-security than self-awareness. Without it, man cannot imagine his own existence. In many respects, self-awareness, one’s own identity, locks man in himself, which is why God is the only one that can ever get him out of himself – unlock this door, so to speak."

Bernadette Roberts, The Real Christ, page 283, quoted on http://contemplativedaybook.blogspot.com

RE: 5-MeO-DMT, reversal?
Answer
2/24/17 6:03 PM as a reply to Oochdd.
Oochdd:
Alternatively, find an enlightened teacher that can help guide you with this new way of perceiving.

This video by Shinzen Young on DP/DR might be useful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zIKQCwDXsA
I second this advice. Reach out to Shinzen, he had helped others in your predicament.
The problem of Depersonalization/de-realization is that you shut down parts of the selfing processes but others are still running. This creates dissonence as the processes that are running saying that you have a "you" no longer point to a deeper "you making" process. So usually cleaning up the problem is shutting down the other process so you dont get conflicting messages...

http://www.shinzen.org/contact/

RE: 5-MeO-DMT, reversal?
Answer
2/25/17 12:39 AM as a reply to Dream Walker.
I agree: Shinzen is good for this sort of stuff, has been doing this a long time.

That half-way-in, half-way-out position is a strange one to be in. Grounding also very good advice.

RE: 5-MeO-DMT, reversal?
Answer
2/25/17 12:22 PM as a reply to Ahmad John Khalif.
I would first like to thank you all for your help and assistance, I cannot express my gratitude enough.

However, A lot has changed in just 5 days, ever since I posted here. I had come in contact with a research paper on PNSE and a wonderful german buddhist teacher I found online that day. One section in the research paper dealt with people who rejected the experience and exited it by focusing on ghost emotions and strengthening them. The buddhist teacher also added several components to what I can do, such as holding on and identifying with my ego (as I did already), repaint my life around with all the memories and experiences (objects, places, people...etc), restoring agency to my body by focusing on sensations and looking/imagining the locations at which these sensations are happening. And I can positively say that in just 5 days, I have reacquired a sense of self that is exponentially growing by the second. I'm still a long way off from where and who I was, but such dramatic improvements are unspeakable of, and have sincerely left me in tears. It is the most wonderful thing I have ever seen in my entire life, even more wonderful than the year of understanding that lead me to where I am. It is like all that understanding being relearned but in reverse, like watching th structure of your ego recompile from the inside out. I have no words to describe such insight. 

But all of this really brings me to an important observation. Ever since the experience and my continuous pleading on online forums, 90% of people would always suggest permanency and never going back, writing scary things like "What has been seen cannot be unseen" or some other bullocks that would drive me out of my mind (If I had one to begin with). I speak from my own experience, and I understand that it was drug induced, but I certainly witnessed in front of my very eyes how such an experience can be folded back on itself with simple practices and conscious (whatever was left of conscious) effort. So really, why so? 

RE: 5-MeO-DMT, reversal?
Answer
2/26/17 11:34 PM as a reply to Ahmad John Khalif.
Ahmad John Khalif:

But all of this really brings me to an important observation. Ever since the experience and my continuous pleading on online forums, 90% of people would always suggest permanency and never going back, writing scary things like "What has been seen cannot be unseen" or some other bullocks that would drive me out of my mind (If I had one to begin with). I speak from my own experience, and I understand that it was drug induced, but I certainly witnessed in front of my very eyes how such an experience can be folded back on itself with simple practices and conscious (whatever was left of conscious) effort. So really, why so? 

ACTUALLY seeing true non-duality is a one-way road as far as I know, and no-one I have met that has had it happen would want having a "self" back. I think this is why most responded as they did.

Your ability to rebuild your "self" is why I feel you can't have gotten the entirety of the understanding, only a temporary loss your "self". This must be a fairly rare occurance, but seemingly reversable due to the lack of the complete insight.