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Near misses
Answer
3/10/17 9:20 AM
Well, I not entirely sure this qualifies as an attainment, but is the only thing I have to show so far emoticon
While not sudden nor life changing, it remains a very important change.

Something has changed in the way I experience sensations, meditation states, etc.

Before I always had this "observing, doing, analyzing, aware" thing when focusing on sensations, on the observer, on thoughts, etc.

I usually to go to a "vantage" point that I call "nothingness", like open awareness. From there I usually watch the watcher, or try to be aware of the cause and effect of sensations and thoughs and the watcher.

The change is that now I can focus or somehow notice something that is behind that. That something is not awareness, it doesn't have to do with sensations. It doesn't observe things.

It kind of "know" things. It focuses on qualities that are different from awareness or sensations.

When I focus on this knowing, flickering of everything occurs.
When I let it do it's thing, I get something like a near miss of a fruition.

This "knowing process" has somehow partially detached from other things (body sensations, effort, thoughts, etc). It makes getting concentration qualities a lot easier. A lot of body sensation are a lot more "natural". Like everything doing its own thing.

While I haven't got a fruition on demand yet , I'm a lot closer (I think).

I just go to nothingness and from there I let the knowing do it's thing. From there everything seems more luminous, quiet, peaceful, then a mind shift and a near miss (or something like that).
Also the vibrations I get when I focus on this are really impressive.

Of course, I don't know if this is stage dependent (I'm still cycling).

It is different from many other wow experiences, mind shifts, etc.
It feels like a thing slowly detaching from other things. Or things detaching from themselves emoticon.

RE: Near misses
Answer
3/10/17 10:02 AM as a reply to Ernest Michael Olmos.
Hey Ernest!

You are describing something very familiar to me. It was pretty useful for me to explore. I "knew" it was there, but I was kind of avoiding it, I guess subconsciously I found it unsettling. I've had a handful sessions with Ron Crouch last year, and he encouraged me to look at this stuff directly. It was a great tip.

So one related practice I have found useful is: Take "that" external sensation (anything works, might be e.g. the buzzing of the fridge) and compare it against "this" thing you are calling the knower / vantage point / knowing process. You could have a look at what happens when attention bounces back and forth between "this" and "that". This is described somewhere in MCTB too if I remember correctly.

Additional stuff to look at: You could explore the divide between the "this" and the "that", if you can locate it, and look at that divide directly; it looked like a screen to me at points. Lots of unexpected stuff being projected on that screen. Or if the "that" is a physical sensation, you could look at where the feeling of ownership of the "that" is, and whether the ownership itself is a "this" or a "that", the result might be unexpected. Or additionally, if the "that" is some physical pain, where is the reaction (aversion) to it? Now you have a quintet of things:
- the process of watching
- the pain
- the owner of the pain
- the ownership of the pain (might be in a different place than the owner)
- the aversion (is it in the pain? is it in the owner? in the ownership?)
- the divide
Which of these things always stand on one side of the screen, and which jump in and out of it?

If you give this a shot, I'd be curious to know the results.

Have fun!

neko

RE: Near misses
Answer
3/10/17 12:43 PM as a reply to neko.
Thanks for your suggestion, but I don't think it will work.

This knowing thing is not a vantage point.
In fact, it kind of "levels" everything. Like everything doing it's own thing. It takes out control of things.
It's feels like surrendering control, but without you doing it, like just letting whatever is happening, happen on its own.

It isn't special, in fact, it makes everything ordinary. Whatever happens, happens (changes in awareness, actions, thoughts, sensations, vantage points, panoramic vision, wow experiences). It's all the same.

I can't compare it to any sensation (you example was the buzzing of the fridge) because it's everywhere. It's in everything that happens, that is known.

I can't describe it well, so I'll stop now emoticon.

RE: Near misses
Answer
3/11/17 7:05 AM as a reply to Ernest Michael Olmos.
Ernest Michael Olmos:
Thanks for your suggestion, but I don't think it will work.


Sure.  However, have a look at what you've written here:


Ernest Michael Olmos:

I usually to go to a "vantage" point that I call "nothingness", like open awareness. From there I usually watch the watcher, or try to be aware of the cause and effect of sensations and thoughs and the watcher.

vs.

Ernest Michael Olmos:

This knowing thing is not a vantage point.
In fact, it kind of "levels" everything. Like everything doing it's own thing. It takes out control of things.
It's feels like surrendering control, but without you doing it, like just letting whatever is happening, happen on its own.


"Vantage point" were your own words. Of course, if it isn't a vantage point, the tip changes ;)

RE: Near misses
Answer
3/12/17 5:35 PM as a reply to neko.
Neko, Ernest refered to "vantage point" in his first post BEFORE he started describing his new situation.

RE: Near misses
Answer
3/12/17 8:08 PM as a reply to Andre Pais.
Sorry for the late response, needed more time. So:

- It's AP phenomena. It's not permanent. It has some wow factor. Still cycling.

- Vantage point happens now and happened before. But now there is something that levels everything, like everything happening on it's own with a specific quality that I call "the knower" (maybe emptiness). It happens even when not in vantage point.

- Things seem more clear, but not in a sense like more colorful. Its like they are more separated. Even awareness and toughts seem more separated from the other senses.

- Space and body sensations are felt different, more separated, like with less control.

- For some background about me, I'm pretty sure I'm second path going to third (or 2.5). I had not problem getting fruitions on second path review on retreat but after that I couldn't get them.

Again, it's AP, has all the qualities of AP, but it's interesting anyway, very different from others AP.