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Dharma Diagnostic Clinic, aka "What was that?"

Anyone else expierence this? Help

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Anyone else expierence this? Help
Answer
9/5/17 11:31 PM
I read jed mckenna book spirtual enlightenment also began to listin to ug krishmurti they were like viruses that shredded by beliefs to pieces. I  believed enlightenment was real i could get enlightened but they made me question all that. I decided to give up sprituality.......but i realized "I" couldnt. The process was doing itself i knew i wouldnt get anything from listening to them yet i kept listening i couldnt stop. It was a trap if i dont do anything im still trying if i do its also useless its all automatic. These past 2 dayz have been expecially weird i go outside and when a car drives by i am speeding by. A girl fixes her hair beside me im fixing my hair not literally but that what it feels like. Someone pays for thier bus ticket infront of me im the one talking to the driver paying for the bus every movement is one movement.When people talk im talking thier talking inside me I can shift  in and out of this perspctive at will. What is this?

RE: Anyone else expierence this? Help
Answer
9/6/17 7:25 AM as a reply to Jas.
I call them "transitional experiences." They happen when the sense of self is fracturing and reforming itself. I've never heard of anyone being able to produce them at will, though. Usually they are involuntary.

RE: Anyone else expierence this? Help
Answer
9/7/17 4:40 AM as a reply to Jas.
More interesting than what label you put on them is how you relate to them and what impact they have positive or negative or neutral.

If you relate skillfully to them and notice what lessons you can learn from them about boundaries and the like and they cause no life disruption, that is obviously good.

If they freak you out or you have problems functioning because of them, that is obviously not so good.

How are those experiences impacting:

1) Your sense of reality?
2) Your level of function?
3) Your depth of wisdom?

RE: Anyone else expierence this? Help
Answer
9/14/17 3:19 AM as a reply to Jas.
Jas:
I read jed mckenna book spirtual enlightenment also began to listin to ug krishmurti they were like viruses that shredded by beliefs to pieces. I  believed enlightenment was real i could get enlightened but they made me question all that. I decided to give up sprituality.......but i realized "I" couldnt. The process was doing itself i knew i wouldnt get anything from listening to them yet i kept listening i couldnt stop. It was a trap if i dont do anything im still trying if i do its also useless its all automatic. These past 2 dayz have been expecially weird i go outside and when a car drives by i am speeding by. A girl fixes her hair beside me im fixing my hair not literally but that what it feels like. Someone pays for thier bus ticket infront of me im the one talking to the driver paying for the bus every movement is one movement.When people talk im talking thier talking inside me I can shift  in and out of this perspctive at will. What is this?

It's all part of the process. It's stuff working itself out. Part of the process is the mind becoming calm sometimes and agitated sometimes, exerting effort sometimes and not exerting effort sometimes, and that's just the mind doing its thing.

I would advise you not to take either Jed McKenna or UG too seriously. Jed is a fictional character, though the books do have some interesting insights into Moby Dick and the Transcendentalists and clever critiques of the Buddhist poseurs, and UG is just very cynical, and neither is especially helpful.

I highly recommend you read or reread Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha, slowly, sentence by sentence, and take each sentence seriously as a practice instruction.
Here are some questions that I think might help you to ask yourself - the point is not to answer them, but to ask them and look closely:

What happens when you switch back and forth between the two perspectives?

Can you combine them into one? Merge them into a larger space?

Who is it who is doing the switching back and forth?

Who is it who is wondering about this?

Who is it wanting to know what to do next?

Who is it observing all this?

RE: Anyone else expierence this? Help
Answer
9/13/17 3:30 AM as a reply to J C.
Also, might consider calling up Shinzen Young, as he has been teaching this stuff a long time and is sometimes available by phone. Definitely check out his free material, which is abundant, clean and clear.

RE: Anyone else expierence this? Help
Answer
9/13/17 3:33 AM as a reply to Daniel M. Ingram.
Fun recent interview with him on Deconstructing Yourself, particularly the second interview, "Enlightenment's Evil Twin", which covers how to handle difficulties in a nice, simple, straightforward way.

http://deconstructingyourself.com/podcast/dy-007-enlightenments-evil-twin-guest-shinzen-young

RE: Anyone else expierence this? Help
Answer
9/17/17 7:24 PM as a reply to Jas.
Hi Jas,

I am reading a book by Stefan Anacker, Seven Works of Vasubandhu, which contains translations and commentary on essays by a Mahayana (actually Yogachara school) philosopher who lived in 4th to 5th century AD. Anaker has this to say about one of the meditation trainings described in Vasubandhu's "Commentary on the Separation of the Middle from the Extremes" (Separation of the Middle from the Extremes being an earlier work of the Mahayana philosopher Maitreyanatha):
As a matter of fact, it is one thing to practise the applications of mindfulness with "one's own" body, feelings, consciousness-moments, and cognizables as the meditational objects - this is done by any "Hinayana" practitioner - but it is quite another thing to apply them to "others'" bodies, cittas, etc. And this is stated by Vasubandhu to be a salient feature of the Bodhisattva's practise. So meditation cannot be something done exclusively or even mainly in isolation: One is to Mahayanistically mediate in the marketplace, with everything that comes along seen for what it is. "One" is suffused with a one-pointed consciousness, "outer" as well as "inner" directed, as "one" is walking down the street. With the absence of any felt distinction between perceived and perceiver, an extaordinary openess of consicousness results.

When I read that, I couldn't help but think of your post.

Unfortunately, none of the Mahayana schools that I know of teach a systematic meditation approach for achieving this, but perhaps you've stumbled across it again by accident. Maybe there are some Tibetans who still teach it, I am not all that familiar with Tibetan practice.

Good luck!