Feeling VS Thinking one is feeling (Qi Gong, Vipassana, Anapana)

thumbnail
David Starflower, modified 4 Years ago at 9/17/17 11:19 PM
Created 4 Years ago at 9/17/17 11:19 PM

Feeling VS Thinking one is feeling (Qi Gong, Vipassana, Anapana)

Posts: 33 Join Date: 9/10/17 Recent Posts
When recently practicing Anapana (following the breath) I suddenly felt an unfamiliar sensation and was faced with the fact that I might just have imagined certain sensations.

I especially have trouble feeling the outbreath. So I did a few slightly harder breaths to get the sensations, went back to normal and started noticing again and searched for that sensations. Seek and you shall find…

Thinking further this brought me to the questions on "how to you know a sensation is real". When doing Vipassana (Goenka style) the instruction is deliberately only to listen and not to imagine etc. body parts. Qi Gong on the other hand (I haven't done it thoroughly yet, so please correct me if I am wrong) brings you to feel "the energy"™, so you are looking for something specific and might be prone to the same issue.

Lastly, if you do Vipassana, should you "end up with Qi Gong" as you find that you sense your energy flowing along the meridians as Qi Gong practitioners "knew all along"?

I know that "what is real anyway" is tricky question and I hope the way I put my questions into words does not insult anybody.

What are your opinions and experiences?
Adam M, modified 4 Years ago at 9/18/17 3:00 AM
Created 4 Years ago at 9/18/17 3:00 AM

RE: Feeling VS Thinking one is feeling (Qi Gong, Vipassana, Anapana)

Posts: 51 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
Hi David. I don't know anything about Qi Gong but you sound like a natual vipassana worker with a mixture of hard work and curiosity. As concentration improves you normally notice other things about the breath and sensations that are a bit odd as part of the processing of these sensations change. You can then come to realise intuitively as well as intellectualy that your perception of reality is more affected by the processing of your brain than anything that occurs outside. It can feel quite profound sometimes.
thumbnail
Daniel M Ingram, modified 4 Years ago at 9/18/17 3:44 AM
Created 4 Years ago at 9/18/17 3:44 AM

RE: Feeling VS Thinking one is feeling (Qi Gong, Vipassana, Anapana)

Posts: 3231 Join Date: 4/20/09 Recent Posts
Imagined sensations are actually still sensations, just mental sensations, though mental sensations may have subtle visual, auditory, tactile, etc components to them, that is unless your concentration gets very strong, and then they might seem as real as "real" sensations.

So, be they imagined sensations, "real" sensations, or any other sorts of sensations, from a vipassna point of view, all sensations, be they mental or physical, are valid objects for investigation, as all demonstrate the Three Characteristics.
thumbnail
David Starflower, modified 4 Years ago at 9/19/17 1:22 AM
Created 4 Years ago at 9/19/17 1:21 AM

RE: Feeling VS Thinking one is feeling (Qi Gong, Vipassana, Anapana)

Posts: 33 Join Date: 9/10/17 Recent Posts
I am in TMI stage 2/3, so it's from a samatha and not from a vipassana point of view. It still seems like a very valid argument to me because as the instruction is to observe, there is something that I do observe. I tend to overthinking and am worried (haha, hindrance found) I am doing it wrong. Thanks for the response to both of you :-) 
thumbnail
jonjohn, modified 4 Years ago at 9/19/17 4:47 AM
Created 4 Years ago at 9/19/17 4:44 AM

RE: Feeling VS Thinking one is feeling (Qi Gong, Vipassana, Anapana)

Posts: 91 Join Date: 3/24/17 Recent Posts
Daniel M. Ingram:
Imagined sensations are actually still sensations, just mental sensations, though mental sensations may have subtle visual, auditory, tactile, etc components to them, that is unless your concentration gets very strong, and then they might seem as real as "real" sensations.

One question i have about mental, is if there is a "mental" part in an anger, or hope for example, that is not reduced to bodily sensations? What it means some object to be mental? Ι don't think i can relate to this. Is it some kind of limited concentration issue? And one more in the same subject, is there a way to discern between "mental" seeing and plain seeing. All in one, is there a part of experience that is not reduced to seeing, smelling, hearing, bodily feeling etc?  

Thank you

Breadcrumb