RE: Report of my stream-entry

Derek, modified 13 Years ago at 8/1/10 1:02 PM
Created 13 Years ago at 8/1/10 1:02 PM

RE: Report of my stream-entry

Posts: 326 Join Date: 7/21/10 Recent Posts
Good discussion.

Just out of interest, I looked up the way the practice is worded in the Satipa.t.thaana Sutta (MN 10).

That sutta definitely points to the kind of knowingness that is cultivated by a noting practice. This is more than simply tracking sensations.

Example:

bhikkhu gacchanto vaa "gacchaamii"ti pajaanaati

A monk, when walking, knows "I am walking."

You can go through the whole sutta and find similar wording repeated throughout.

There's nothing I can see in the sutta about attempting to eradicate kilesas, though in any case, the very word "kilesa" is rare in the suttas and only comes to prominence in the later literature.
thumbnail
tarin greco, modified 13 Years ago at 8/1/10 2:39 PM
Created 13 Years ago at 8/1/10 2:39 PM

RE: Report of my stream-entry

Posts: 658 Join Date: 5/14/09 Recent Posts
i've split this discussion off from April V.'s 'Report of my stream-entry' thread.

Derek A Cameron:
Good discussion.

Just out of interest, I looked up the way the practice is worded in the Satipa.t.thaana Sutta (MN 10).

That sutta definitely points to the kind of knowingness that is cultivated by a noting practice. This is more than simply tracking sensations.

Example:

bhikkhu gacchanto vaa "gacchaamii"ti pajaanaati

A monk, when walking, knows "I am walking."

You can go through the whole sutta and find similar wording repeated throughout.

There's nothing I can see in the sutta about attempting to eradicate kilesas, though in any case, the very word "kilesa" is rare in the suttas and only comes to prominence in the later literature.


yet, the word 'uppakilesa' appears in the suttas far more frequently than does 'kilesa', and as far as i have been able to determine, means the same thing as does 'kilesa' in the later literature.

for example, it plays a chief role in the vatthupama sutta (MN 7), in which the knowing of the defilements as such causes their abandonment:

MN 7:

3. "And what, monks, are the defilements of the mind?[2] (1) Covetousness and unrighteous greed are a defilement of the mind; (2) ill will is a defilement of the mind; (3) anger is a defilement of the mind; (4) hostility...(5) denigration...(6) domineering...(7) envy...(8) jealousy...(9) hypocrisy...(10) fraud...(11) obstinacy...(12) presumption...(13) conceit...(14) arrogance...(15) vanity...(16) negligence is a defilement of the mind.[3]

4. "Knowing, monks, covetousness and unrighteous greed to be a defilement of the mind, the monk abandons them.[4] Knowing ill will to be a defilement of the mind, he abandons it. Knowing anger to be a defilement of the mind, he abandons it. Knowing hostility to be a defilement of the mind, he abandons it. Knowing denigration to be a defilement of the mind, he abandons it. Knowing domineering to be a defilement of the mind, he abandons it. Knowing envy to be a defilement of the mind, he abandons it. Knowing jealousy to be a defilement of the mind, he abandons it. Knowing hypocrisy to be a defilement of the mind, he abandons it. Knowing fraud to be a defilement of the mind, he abandons it. Knowing obstinacy to be a defilement of the mind, he abandons it. Knowing presumption to be a defilement of the mind, he abandons it. Knowing conceit to be a defilement of the mind, he abandons it. Knowing arrogance to be a defilement of the mind, he abandons it. Knowing vanity to be a defilement of the mind, he abandons it. Knowing negligence to be a defilement of the mind, he abandons it.


tarin
Derek, modified 13 Years ago at 8/1/10 4:45 PM
Created 13 Years ago at 8/1/10 4:45 PM

RE: Report of my stream-entry

Posts: 326 Join Date: 7/21/10 Recent Posts
tarin greco:
yet, the word 'uppakilesa' appears in the suttas far more frequently than does 'kilesa', and as far as i have been able to determine, means the same thing as does 'kilesa' in the later literature.


Good point.

tarin greco:
for example, it plays a chief role in the vatthupama sutta (MN 7), in which the knowing of the defilements as such causes their abandonment


The knowing (viditvaa) referred to here seems to be more than mere noting. There is the mental construct of a defilement (upakkilesa), into which category the experience is placed. So this is a slightly more active process than simple choiceless observation, though not as active as a full psychological investigation of how the defilement works.

Similarly, the abandonment of the defilement (pajahati) suggests a more active and intentional "throwing off" of the defilement than simply not identifying with it.

Breadcrumb