I have to consolidate this point of the practice. Now I can see it and distinguish it and the journey through the different stages, and feel the shift from A&P through the dark night and out into that deep peaceful state.
There is a certain amount of shift back into difficulties in the body associated with the dark night, but by just being with them and holding that awareness of the state of equanitmity, I return to an ease with the body.
Is is oka to transmute these dark night sensation through attention back into a soft background of being with the body? There still is the insight component things are changing & impermanent and therefore unsatisfactory, its nice but you have to stay with it it's not permanent.
What i should do from here?
I've read through Inrgam's vipassana stages and a bit beyond there, but not finished the book, there doesn't seem to be much there no where to go now.
I mean, often when I go back clues that didn't seem so evident present themselves anew. Some of the question marks for me are do I keep flowing up through the cycle and get better at accessing equanimity, and shifting between insight and jhana, like I sort of have been doing, but now I added in a equanimity. Or do I just get really good at equanimity and wait for something to happen. Or a bit of both.

Hi,

I would recommend reading the whole book through-- there are a lot of practical tips throughout sections that you may not otherwise think they would be located in. Also, search through this forum for similar threads, specifically for Tarin's advice on the matter-- I seem to recall some very nice correspondence between him and others on this topic. Lastly, perhaps review your goals, your motivations for those goals and related thoughts. It seems to take a considerable amount of well directed energy to break through equanimity (and I don't mean "energy" in the spiritual sense, I am referring to will power and desire).

Trent

as long as you keep doing the investigative practice (are you noticing/noting the three characteristics?), then that's probably fine.

would you like more specific advice here? if so, please describe the 'dark night sensation' and 'difficulties in the body associated with the dark night' more specifically.




that sounds like a good reason to read more of it, or to read the parts you've already read again and again, eh?




yes.



yes.



keep going deeper into equanimity, recognising that if you use too much effort, you will stall and probably fall back, but if you use too little, you will also stall and probably fall back.

equanimity nana needs to be robust enough to handle a lot of investigation and investigative effort. therefore,



keep going, as your questions are good and indicate that you're probably going the right direction. if you want more specific advice, post more specific meditation descriptions.

keep going.

tarin

Thanks, alot Tarin, it's early days yet, last nights meditation, was all just dark night, after leaving the cushion, I went out, even thought the dark night was with me, the time on the cushion -which had a intensity to it- helped strengthen a mindfulness/primordial awareness quality, and the much more milder qualities of the dark night, irritation, and uncomfortable bodily sensation were alot easier to manage.
I know it's a kind of hubris, to ask this question, how long does it take- I don't mean that literally. I mean, is it common for, people to spend many years mastering the cycle through the first for stages of vipassana- as well as mastering equanimity/insight. I image that's the way it is. What's more common, At least it's a good place to rest in insight/or knowing and consolidate with.

Hey there,
I read your post, and am interested to find out how things progress for you. Your questions sound similar to what I've been asking about for a couple months now, so I found it useful to read through. I think I spent the first three months after getting to equanimity thinking that I had finally achieved early A&P and was so excited to be finally out of Three Characteristics and soon reaching the A&P event. This website and all the advice here has been super helpful for me in navigating this map thing.

I totally relate to your question: "Or do I just get really good at equanimity and wait for something to happen?" That was what I initially thought was the case after having read through MCTB once. Now, I'm not so sure it's the case, and I think that Trent's point that it still takes a tremendous amount of energy to get through equanimity is probably a valid point. I'm not really so sure though, as I don't really have that experience yet.

Anyway, good luck with your journey.

- Daniel

Hi Daniel Johnson, I read your post too, very clear and concise, cataloguing and comparing, on the equanimity. You seemed to pick out some really good or essential passages to reference your experience. Wow, that was a long retreat, 30 days- sounds like you were really consolidated in the experience of equanimity. I had it going for a few days but haven't been practicing enough lately to keep it present, sort of dark nighting it and some times tittering on the edge of reactivating it. I've been in dark night probably the last 10 years or more, I'm a bit of a classic dummy, floundering in the dark knight, feeling more optimistic now that i know the map and recognise the the significance of equanimity in the context of the map. Going to India for three months in the summer, so will do a thirty day then. Never done one before. Kind of sitting at that point where i have to practice for equanimity but I don't enough. I don't really know and it's probably a wild guess, you could do another, 10 days or 10 X 30 days, and it might or might not happen- stream entry -but I think it's likely, (please anyone correct me if I'm wrong) the more consistently you maintain equanimity from here on out in retreat and daily life, the more likely you are to ripen. I really need equanimity to manage my daily life, cause the irritation etc. and heightened sensitivity to the sensations in my body, pains tension, can get intense otherwise. Brother sounds like your doing really well, there were some really good words of advise in you thread about, equanimity and aspects of the dark night being easy to be with in that state! I walked around or a few days sort of holding that with a 'soft' equanimity. What a rave, thanks for sharing, I'll keep an I on, for more tips..

Hey neem nyima,

Thanks. I'm glad you got some value from my posting. I don't know if I was in fact consolidated in equanimity on my long retreat, as I don't really understand these maps well. I think I'm very much a dummy too, which I'm discovering quite to my surprise. And, I wouldn't suggest much in the way of taking advice from anything I write (though, I don't suggest taking that advice either

I think if there is such a promised land as this so-called "stream entry" - then perhaps a lot will make much more sense when I arrive. Until then, it's just practice, practice, practice. (and more practice)

Just listening to the Hurricane Ranch talk, and someone said, might have been Ingram, that on a Hundred day retreat, in Malaysia about 50% get stream entry. It was in the second talk that they mentioned it. Hey, you probably looked at that stuff already.
http://www.interactivebuddha.com/podcasts.shtml
And Daniel, a fare few of the things you said when describing your experience of equanimity, were very clear mirrors of my experience- more clear, and the stuff about aspects of a kind of re-observation while still in equanimity were insightful. You can really feel the shift when you loose the equanimity and are fully back in re-observation, all those sensations that are flowing through you become intense, irritating and the environment and is sounds and sights grates on you, but when your in equanimity, your ass is sore you've sat for an hour discomforts have come and gone, and it was kind of mostly oka- except when it's strong then its just oka, and you want to sit more and you go another fifteen minutes and its good. Its so different A&P and I have no doubts about knowing all that energy stuff, but there is a fun vibe to doing energy work with insight that's really different to just getting Jhana or doing a really good chi gong session. For one at least with me A&P' s insight component pulls me into the dark night more quickly and Jhana or chi gong don't. Also since I've become more aware of the the dark night it's been a bit more intense or maybe I'm just more aware of how it interferes with my life, but at least I can come out the other side into equanimity, and know that even if it is a kind of avoidance, it is ripening me for my retreat and a more consolidated experience of equanimity during my retreat so the possibility of stream entry may present its self.