While reading Daniel's book for the 2nd time, I was thinking about how valuable it would be to have a book that would essentially be an expanded version of his chapter on the Models of Enlightenment, only taking perhaps a more quantified approach. So in addition to an overview of each model/practice, information could also be provided on topics such as:

1. Time it takes average practitioner to reach early and advanced stages of enlightenment.
2. What are the fruits of the practice (i.e., what sorts of people does this practice attract/produce)?
3. What types of people are likely to benefit from the practice (this topic could be an entire book itself, incorporating analytical tools such as the Myers/Briggs personality assessment and others in order to help people match their preferences and personalities to a practice.
4. What negative side effects is the practice likely (or can) produce?

These are just a few that came to mind.

There would likely be some negative aspects involved in this project. For example, would a book like this contribute to our already short attention span, cafeteria culture (e.g., sort of like using speed dating to try and meet your spouse)? Would it promote a sort of spiritual materialism? Maybe, but the quick information gathering, dabbler mindset is already a part of our culture, and making attempts to meet people where they are coming from seems like the right effort.

Perhaps the bigger challenge would be putting something like this together in a way that is fair to all practices and as free from bias as possible. Might be best done as a collaboration or editor compiled. And all of this information is out there if you read enough books and cut through enough proselytising, although I have yet to come across any one book that is really satisfying in this area.

Since this website was started by someone with an obvious talent for writing, DhO seemed like as good a site as any to float this balloon. If anyone would like to discuss further or just take this idea and run with it, feel free. Of course if anyone knows of books like this already out there, feel free to share that as well.

Yeah, I simply don't currently have the time or inclination to write that, but perhaps those basic questions can be answered as best they can here.

First, in terms of the time it takes for people to do whatever, the ranges is so wide and varies depending on so many factors that it is a nearly unanswerable question. What do you consider high attainments? I consider stream entry to be a good place to start, and others may consider the A&P to be the bees knees, and others are amazed when they do things like stay with 3 breaths one after the other or sit for 60 minutes. Do you mean on retreat or in daily life or both? Do you mean what is the fastest whatever you consider high attainments has ever been done or what is a typical range? Do you mean the typical person who wallows in their crap and doesn't follow instructions (most Buddhist practitioners in terms of just sheer numbers), or someone whose hair is on fire with the need to get it done and so actually follows instructions and actually investigates with everything they have got (the rarest 1% at best)? There is no systematic data in this regard, but anecdotes abound. You can find many here, and in fact many personal and case reports are already posted here, and I am sure more would gladly tell you if you asked.

What is interesting is that more people have made faster progress using the resources here, such as MCTB, and on our sister sites (KFD, openenlightenment, etc.) than would have been believed to be possible 10 years ago, for instance, so as the culture of openness and empowerment, as well as the meditative technologies and supports, as well as a diversity of skilled practitioners lending their perspectives to help others do this in a free and open way, the general rate of progress has accelerated rapidly, and what is still possible beyond this is yet unknown.

As to the fruits of practice, what type of practice, but more than that, some of the basic changes made in the mind as a result of insight practice can be described, but the range is so wide in terms of personality and idiosyncratic aspects that this is also really difficult beyond the specifics I describe. Then there is the whole AF thing, which is a whole other field of discussion.

The people who are most likely to benefit from the hardcore, achievement-oriented, technical approach: I would say that they are people who have the following aspects:
1) They have gotten to the point where they can put behind then to a substantial degree, at least temporarily, such things as:
a) fascination with dogma
b) their psychological crap
c) whatever other logistical, intellectual, and residual biases and limitations that would keep them from practicing well
2) Have sufficient time, health, and drive to actually really engage with reality and practice to the degree needed to actually succeed.
3) Are able to actually follow the instructions: this eliminates most "Buddhists" on its own
4) Have sufficient ego-strength in the ordinary, Freudian sense, as well as basic mental health and perspective to handle what may result from doing this sort of stuff with the intensity often done here
5) Have whatever undefined qualities I haven't thought of in this rapid post that make it possible to do this.
Others are unlikely to benefit, as they are unlikely to practice well, and, having not practiced well, are unlikely to succeed, and instead are more likely to just run into the side effects and downsides of this broad category of practice or simply waste their time.

As to negative side effects, my book and the DhO itself go on endlessly about the potential downsides, with many generic and specific examples of what is possible to go wrong or at least be unpleasant and hard to deal with. This list is so long that people should just read the various sources and poke around here, particularly in the Dealing with the Dark Night category on the discussion thread.

Helpful?

Daniel

i would love to see more books (even amateur ones or short ebooks or compilations) written by practitioners. I have my notes jotted down scattered in a few notebooks, and one day i really want to make a compilation along with illustrations & diagrams too

another thing that i think is useful is a short book, sort of like an introduction to what meditation really is, which goes on to cover more advanced stuff in the most easy to understand way as possible. and it should emphasize stream entry. and also the differences and similarities between vipassana, zen, vajrayana meditation, and other meditations, along with explaining its relation to the special powers, healing, clairvoyance, etc.. because thats what a lot of people coming into meditation ask about too.. It should be a book that tells them what they need to hear and want to hear, tame their mind and lead them to the right direction.. I want to give it out maybe after retreats, or just on facebook, or in meditation groups around the city..