Advice on finding a teacher - Discussion
Beleza:
RE my current practice After posting this topic and seeing the initial response I decided to drop the counting and return to noting practice and my practice seems to have improved a bit, but it's early days yet. My issue with Mahasi noting is that I spent 21 days at Panditarama and felt like I was treading water for much of it, so I can't help feeling that doing an hour or 2 a day in my daily life is not going to get me anywhere, and that I should experiment with new techniques and see if they suit me better.
And regarding my problems with noting, the first 7/8 days at Panditarama I was in a lot of pain and towards the end of that period having serious aversion to practicing, what I took to be reobservation. Suddenly all the pain and the aversion dropped away and I felt very peaceful. However, I did not kick on from this position as I hoped to and by day 14 or so and even by the end of the retreat I was still struggling to maintain concentration for long at a time, especially during sitting.
I was also becoming very frustrated by the idea of 'seeing the true nature' of the sensations in the feet/stomach during walking/sitting. The audio talks each day kept telling me that if I was not 'seeing something special' about true nature by this stage I was not putting in required effort, which added to my frustration as time went on and I was not perceiving anything more than I had been, despite a huge amount of mental effort. Maybe I was trying too hard? I'm not sure, but the idea that I will start perceiving these things now doing an hour or two a day when i couldn't for 21 days on retreat seems unrealistic and makes it hard to stay motivated.
And regarding my problems with noting, the first 7/8 days at Panditarama I was in a lot of pain and towards the end of that period having serious aversion to practicing, what I took to be reobservation. Suddenly all the pain and the aversion dropped away and I felt very peaceful. However, I did not kick on from this position as I hoped to and by day 14 or so and even by the end of the retreat I was still struggling to maintain concentration for long at a time, especially during sitting.
I was also becoming very frustrated by the idea of 'seeing the true nature' of the sensations in the feet/stomach during walking/sitting. The audio talks each day kept telling me that if I was not 'seeing something special' about true nature by this stage I was not putting in required effort, which added to my frustration as time went on and I was not perceiving anything more than I had been, despite a huge amount of mental effort. Maybe I was trying too hard? I'm not sure, but the idea that I will start perceiving these things now doing an hour or two a day when i couldn't for 21 days on retreat seems unrealistic and makes it hard to stay motivated.
Your retreat experiences are very suggestive of a path forward. It seems like you have two challenges: "maintaining concentration" and "seeing something special"... but my hunch is that you are indeed trying to hard on both of these challenges.
One of the phases leading to stream entry is going to be a phase where the mind kinda falls apart, where maintaining concentration is impossible. It might seem like this is a roadblock, but actually the trick is to let the mind have its troubles and simply notice what is going on. Too often, we want the mind to be clear, calm, spacious or focused, attentive, percise.. but --- especially on retreat --- there will be times when it's sloppy, chaotic, confused... basically a mess. That does not mean it's "bad meditation". As you point out, reobservation is always a mess and yet it is an essential stage of practice.
My suggestion is to learn to be much much much much much more accepting of a sloppy mind. If you can notice/note some aspect of the sloppiness a few times a minute, maybe every outbreath so about 12 times a minute, that is enough for making progress. You might be tempted to try to "fix" the mind, but if you can't, then fighting it will just burn you out. That's when you need to switch gears and simply observe the mind as it is, as messy as it is, just as it is. If you are aware, that is enough. Just ride it out. That's all you need to do.
Ironically, same thing with "seeing something special". The special thing you need to see is just how it is... and the fact that you can be aware of things as they are (i.e., the not-self-ness of sensations that seem like self). My hunch is you already are capable of "objectifying" the contents of the mind as not-you. I'm pretty sure that's the special thing they were pointing toward and I bet you were already seeing it.
In any case, in you daily sits, try to get used to sitting with a crappy mind. Non-retreat sitting is actually better for this, because the mind might not have time to settle down --- perfect!
Your job is getting used to just letting your mind be as it is. Be more of an observer, don't assume that you "are" the mess.I absolutely guarantee (oops, I should probably say: I'm fairly sure) that this practice is a perfect approach for training for your next retreat. The thing you need to get good at is >not resisting<. When that happens, you'll move through the early stages more quickly and you'll will have more energy for equanimity and beyond. The problem you have now is you wear yourself out battling the early stages and don't have enough energy to power a open, clear mind in equanimity, so you don't really continue to move forward.
Equanimity is actually a very tricky stage. It requires even more >not resisting< even when sitting just seems like normal life. You need to keep the seat of the pants to the seat of the cushion and not be thrown off by doubts or boredom. Just sitting, simple -- but nearly impossible if you are fighting with yourself.
I think you're in a good position to make progress. You've kinda learned what doesn't work. Now you need to build a much more allowing/accepting approach to practice. Notice worries about making progress, feelings of futility, needing to move more quickly, frustrations AS emotions and thoughts. That's it. That's what you need to get good at now.
Try a few sits where you just don't care what happens. Try saying to yourself "I'm making no progress and I like it." After a certain point, you might find it funny. It really is this simple, even though we make it so hard for ourself.
Yes, there will be tough experiences during meditation, of course. But if you get your effort balanced --- just high enough so you keep the practice schedule (sitting daily at home, sitting/walking on schedule on retreat), but just low enough that you aren't resisting/fighting what arises --- then you will continue to make progress.
Mastery is just mastering the basics.
Hope this helps!
shargrol:
Your retreat experiences are very suggestive of a path forward. It seems like you have two challenges: "maintaining concentration" and "seeing something special"... but my hunch is that you are indeed trying to hard on both of these challenges.
One of the phases leading to stream entry is going to be a phase where the mind kinda falls apart, where maintaining concentration is impossible. It might seem like this is a roadblock, but actually the trick is to let the mind have its troubles and simply notice what is going on. Too often, we want the mind to be clear, calm, spacious or focused, attentive, percise.. but --- especially on retreat --- there will be times when it's sloppy, chaotic, confused... basically a mess. That does not mean it's "bad meditation". As you point out, reobservation is always a mess and yet it is an essential stage of practice.
My suggestion is to learn to be much much much much much more accepting of a sloppy mind. If you can notice/note some aspect of the sloppiness a few times a minute, maybe every outbreath so about 12 times a minute, that is enough for making progress. You might be tempted to try to "fix" the mind, but if you can't, then fighting it will just burn you out. That's when you need to switch gears and simply observe the mind as it is, as messy as it is, just as it is. If you are aware, that is enough. Just ride it out. That's all you need to do.
Ironically, same thing with "seeing something special". The special thing you need to see is just how it is... and the fact that you can be aware of things as they are (i.e., the not-self-ness of sensations that seem like self). My hunch is you already are capable of "objectifying" the contents of the mind as not-you. I'm pretty sure that's the special thing they were pointing toward and I bet you were already seeing it.
In any case, in you daily sits, try to get used to sitting with a crappy mind. Non-retreat sitting is actually better for this, because the mind might not have time to settle down --- perfect!
Your job is getting used to just letting your mind be as it is. Be more of an observer, don't assume that you "are" the mess.I absolutely guarantee (oops, I should probably say: I'm fairly sure) that this practice is a perfect approach for training for your next retreat. The thing you need to get good at is >not resisting<. When that happens, you'll move through the early stages more quickly and you'll will have more energy for equanimity and beyond. The problem you have now is you wear yourself out battling the early stages and don't have enough energy to power a open, clear mind in equanimity, so you don't really continue to move forward.
Equanimity is actually a very tricky stage. It requires even more >not resisting< even when sitting just seems like normal life. You need to keep the seat of the pants to the seat of the cushion and not be thrown off by doubts or boredom. Just sitting, simple -- but nearly impossible if you are fighting with yourself.
I think you're in a good position to make progress. You've kinda learned what doesn't work. Now you need to build a much more allowing/accepting approach to practice. Notice worries about making progress, feelings of futility, needing to move more quickly, frustrations AS emotions and thoughts. That's it. That's what you need to get good at now.
Try a few sits where you just don't care what happens. Try saying to yourself "I'm making no progress and I like it." After a certain point, you might find it funny. It really is this simple, even though we make it so hard for ourself.
Yes, there will be tough experiences during meditation, of course. But if you get your effort balanced --- just high enough so you keep the practice schedule (sitting daily at home, sitting/walking on schedule on retreat), but just low enough that you aren't resisting/fighting what arises --- then you will continue to make progress.
Mastery is just mastering the basics.
Hope this helps!
This is wonderful advice. I needed this, too, because I’m also dealing with a sloppy mind. Thanks!