Forum: Insight Meditation Society

"The vision of IMS is to uphold the possibility of liberation for all beings."

Then why is there a teacher--who was nearly totally inaccessible--implying on numerous occasions that after decades of practice he is not a stream-enterer, and that no one claiming to be one is? Perhaps I am being naive, but did I give up a significant amount of my time and money, meat-eating and sex, just to find out that while "possible" it's not practical? Maybe the majority of so-called practitioners at IMS are fine with this, even laughing when the teacher criticized those teachers who claim stream-entry--why would all these IMS people be there then, save to earn some more points towards getting to the next level of their Meditation Lifestyle? I am grateful that IMS exists, and yet deeply frustrated by this disempowering sentiment that pervades the place.

Author: Tracy.

Huh? Which teacher?
Maybe those people are going after the psychological benefits that have been advertised as being the result of diligent meditation practice.

Having spent a lot of time at IMS over the past few years, I can totally relate to your frustration. While I've never run across a teacher claiming that stream-entry wasn't possible, I've seen plenty of disempowering models and statements made by some of the teachers at the IMS. That being said I've also been really impressed with a couple of the teachers, though it took sitting with them for months of time to finally get a sense of their actual views and opinions (separate from their public talks), and to find out that many of them are quite realized and are at least anagamis (using Daniel's criterion). Also, many of the teachers there make claims to stream-entry, though you have to deduce it form what they're saying.

Some of the teachers at Spirit Rock, particularly Jack Kornfield, John Travis, Howie Cohn, & Trudy Goodman are very competent and realized teachers. They also seem to have better models about enlightenment.

The thing that got me was when in a talk the teacher said, "...not to suggest that I am a stream-enterer", which elicited laughter from the hall. It's not difficult to practice in an environment where the people sitting next to you aren't; it is when the guy sitting on the dias is giving off mixed messages. I don't hold it that much against them because I'd been there previously and there were a lot of tacky hints about "the deathless" being dropped, but, wow, this mainstream meditation culture can be a drag sometimes.

That said, the take-home point here is not to avoid IMS, but to pack some guidance in the form of, say, a photocopy of U Pandita's appendix to In This Very Life (which IMS sells), or perhaps something like Daniel's chapters on the factors, etc. Also maybe a sign that says "You can do it" to put on the door to your room. I am not a big fan of rule-breakers with regards to silence etc., but when the options are to be either a neurotic and confused rule-abider or a practically empowered rule-breaker, it's clear where those chips fall.

I am there with you. IMS basically is a freakish paradox: a beautiful center and setting with fantastic food and an alright price which at once got me my start and really helped me and many people who trained me, and yet is in the same breath a weird bastion of exactly the problems you all describe: nobody does it, psychological, bullshit Buddhism at its gutless, neurotic worst. I have a lot of both first hand and second hand experience with the place, and while you will find elightened teachers there sometimes, and you will find people with good models on occasion, and you will find dedicated, competent practitioners interspersed with all the Buddhist Kindergardeners and hyper-psychologized adult-children, and you will find a good place to practice if you know what you are doing, you will also find a ton of the exact culture that Nathan28 so rightly takes aim at. It is light and darkness containing one another from a Taoist point of view, or just a place in need of regime change from my point of view, but perhaps I am just another Buddhist neo-con: just kidding!

One way or anyother, I hope the place finally crawls out of its own disempowerment trip and gets its head right. In the meantime it is still a good place to go if you are augmented with a better attitude about achievement then you will typically find there and with better meditation techology and maps than is often taught there. I know a number who have tied to buck the trend in public and been shot down hard, so if you want to spread a little hard-core dharma there, my suggestion is to be selective in your audience unless you have a big tolerance for such metaphorical things as packs of hungry hyenas.