Forum: Dharma Overground Discussion Forum

Hi everybody,
I wanted to ask and see if anybody is practicing tummo/inner fire mediation. I have started doing it and it is very interesting.
Best wishes,
Martin

Hi Martin,

how does that work? Is it like the "four elements" kind of meditation from the suttas, where one goes looking for the solidity/energy/liquidity/volume of things? I never tried that in practice. Do you check individual sensations for the fire element? Do you observe the three characteristics with reference to the fire element?

Slightly off-topic, but I'm curious: For the past few months, whenever I made comparable changes to my practice, my progress of insight seemed to "reset". Have you noticed this with your tummo practice?

Cheers,
Florian

Hi Florian,
happy new year to you and you family! Tummo is the tibetan inner fire meditation and it is the foundation of the six yodas of Naropa. Vibrations show up naturally during the practice even when I am not concentrating on them. I just started it but can already feel quite some changes, it is really powerful. It is a meditation that deals with energy and chakras and what I am doing is generating heat in my navel chakra. It is a tantric practice so one of the goals is to generate intensive bliss and unifying it with wisdom of nonduality. I find this practice incredibly interesting so I wanted to know if anybody else is doing it. As of now I did not notice a reset with this practice but have with minor changes of vipassana.
Best wishes,
Martin

Dear Martin,

I am interested in this. What is the practice, where did you get instruction, what specifically have you been doing, what do you feel it will lead to, what about it is of particular interest to you.

I myself have recently gotten interested in chi kong/quigong/however you spell it, which also focuses on centering the energy near the navel and manipulating energy, as I feel there is more I could learn on this front, and so would be grateful if you could share what you are learning.

Hello Daniel,
I got the instructions from Lama Yeshe´s "The Bliss of Inner Fire". I know this is not an ideal way to learn and practice but I guess it wont harm because I am not practicing it intensively. You basically focus on the Tibetan short a which you place in the navel chakra and do vase breathing. This is supposed to milk the winds of the side channels into the central channel and produces heat in the navel chakra. In the book it is said that it is far superior to samatha practice and can quckly lead to an explosion of non-duality wisdom. My particular interest in it comes from another tradition which is a bit difficult to discribe here but I have sent you a PM regarding this with some Videos some time ago. Didn´t you recieve it? If not then I can send it again.
Best wishes,
Martin

Dear Martin,

Thanks for the reference. I did get the PM: very interesting videos, though it is hard to know what to make of them and how to use them for something practical. I'll check out the book.

Daniel

You are right that it is hard to use it for something practical. There are two books by a student of the man. They are "The Magus of Java" and "Nei Kung" both by Kosta Danaos. They contain some more practical information, physical background and more stories. Very interesting

mai88 - they are interesting books aren't they. I got them too; Daniel and anyone interested in this stuff should check out two videos on youtube...type in 'john chang' and watch what comes up. Basically this guy is in the direct lineage of Mo-tzu (a contemporary of Confuscious) and he's incredible. Its a little annoying because both books "Magus of Java" and "Nei Kung" talk alot about the subject but don't really have a lot in the way of instruction due to the esoteric secret stuff around these teachings, the age old logic being that they can be used to heal or to harm self and others. There seem to be some interesting correlations between the development of the Jhanas and Chi powers.

Hi ricecekeandhoney,
they are great reads indeed. If you know where to look you can det in conatct with students of his via forums. I think it is important to say that is is NOT qigong. Qigong is actucally bad for the nei kung practice. Have you seen the video of John´s student?

Before I started meditating, I was interested in "energy work."

Below are materials where, if you practice what the author says (when he or she provides detailed instructions), you'll more or less experience what the author describes. You'll have to decide whether or not you agree with the author's *interpretation* of the experience. (I generally 100% don't.)

This was interesting to me because I thought it would lead to "special powers" be it psychic abilities, healing abilities, the ability to astral project, etc. I do not believe these things any more. However, the phenomenological experiences produced by these practices are still interesting in their own right because they are distinct, repeatable and normally not experienced in the gross body.

The only potential value that I can see at the moment is some of the more sexual practices: 1) can cause the gross world to drop away briefly*, 2) can cause massive peak experiences of "the whole planet is in this together, we're all free, there are no gods" variety, 3) can make sexual activity more "intense," 4) can create emotional euphorias and dysphorias.

*I haven't been able to replicate this but I've been able to replicate just about everything else.

Even with my dismissive attitude, I still have a love for these practices, and there is something about them...

These all have detailed instructions:

http://www.astraldynamics.com/tutorials/beginners/index.html
(there used to be a really nice pdf, but that was years ago)

Energy Work by Robert Bruce
Quantum-Touch by Richard Gordon
The Enlightened Sex Manual by David Deida
The Lover Within by Julie Henderson

http://www.multiples.com/
(despite the absurd marketing, this guy has been around for many years. they have it down to a careful, precise protocol and there's a whole community of practitioners. Superb.)

Author: sonamdolma

As a long time practitioner of Tibetan Buddhism (18 yrs), Qi Gong (6 years) and TuMo practice (Thrangu R. was my teacher), I'd like to say that no one has mentioned the real purpose of these practices.

Qi Gong is learned primarily to work with the Central Channel and open the chakras. TuMo is learned so that, at the time of death, the practitioner can eject the Aliya Consciousness at the heart chakra out through the crown chakra. (The Aliya consciousness comes into the body at the time of conception and leaves it at the time of death. This is what reincarnates - not the ego. And it is this that carries karma - that is, you get it at birth, change it as you live and pass on a slightly new and improved (one hopes) version when you die.

Practicing in this way also activates the chakras. Everything I'v ever read - except for Lama Yeshe - is grossly exaggerated. We should all realize by now that -usually - our expectations are fulfilled and that our individual mind is producing our reality; therefore, anything we can think of is possible. And with book marketing as difficult is it is these days , writers become extraordinarily imaginative.

At the same time, I confess that I had a lot of trouble staying calm during my first A&P as massive amounts of energy - like having a baby backwards - moved up my Central Channel and ripped my Forehead Chakra from hairline to nose.
Darn it....times up for this message.
Cheers.

Author: sonamdolma

Sorry if I sounded preachy. What I really want to say is that Qi Gong is wonderful for everybody and certainly helps with both physical health and spiritual progress. TuMo is much more difficult than insight meditation and not likely to lead to enlightenment. And, for me, chakra openings never seem to be very important or have much of ongoing effect, except for some beautiful colored light displays.

I'm so glad that after all these years I found the practice that works for me.

Ann



Insight meditation has really worked for me

It's all good. Someone on an internet forum once described "energy work for the sake of energy work" as like inspecting the engine, kicking the tires, honking the horn, and adjusting the mirrors rather than actually driving somewhere. It's taken a backseat for me because, after a few years, that's just what it felt like--an intricate curiousity, nothing more. I guess it really does depend on what your goals are.