Pranayama and energy practices to support your practice?

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Wet Paint, modified 15 Years ago at 3/23/09 9:30 AM
Created 15 Years ago at 3/23/09 9:30 AM

Pranayama and energy practices to support your practice?

Posts: 22924 Join Date: 8/6/09 Recent Posts
Author: Crazywisdom
Forum: Dharma Overground Discussion Forum

Does energywork (pranayama, qigong, yoga, chakra meditations, orbit etc.) help your vipassana or your shamatha practice?

If so is it more effective to spend some time doing such practices than just doing the actual shamatha or vipassana meditation?

Untill I found Daniels Blook I always believed some sort of powerfull energywork was a very important addititon to a meditation practice. Mostly because it helped for depth and concentration but also partly because it moved your body somehow in the direction of enlightenement. I observed quite some time ago that people doing insight practice seldom reported mcuh benefit from energy work in their insight practice, just in their shamata practice so I concluded that for Vipassana energy work was just an effective way to spend your time to gain in shamatha. But after reading Daniels work and lurking at this forum I get the impression that if you pracitce shamatha with the right advice it might well be quicker to just do actual shamatha meditation than combining it with energy work.
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Wet Paint, modified 15 Years ago at 3/23/09 9:31 AM
Created 15 Years ago at 3/23/09 9:31 AM

RE: Pranayama and energy practices to support your practice?

Posts: 22924 Join Date: 8/6/09 Recent Posts
Author: Crazywisdom

It apears to me that there are a pranayama practices that actualy might help insight practice. It apears to me that energy going through the central channel is very frequent during a lot of insight practice, especialy around breakthroughs. If so energywork on the central channel might be beneficial. Alternate nostril breathing and the tibetan nine bottle breath works directly on making energy flow in the central channel and might therefore be helpfull. Spinal breathing from root to third could also very well be usefull. Spinal breathing supposedly has a very powerfull effect on the central channel. I read somewhere something from accupuncture theory explaining how working root and third eye in combination works the central channel especialy well. In addition spinal breathing works al the chakras in between very well by going through the spine. Al those who practice it in the AYP system apear to agree that Spinal Breathing is the most powerfull pranayama and obviates the need for most other pranyamas. Anyway al the mentioned practices should benefit shamatha and spinal breathing is apparently so beneficial I would think 10 minutes or so before meditation would be more effective time spent at least for shamatha. I would be very intrigued to here anyones experience with this and if no one has much experience with it I think it would be a worth while experiment to undertake.
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Wet Paint, modified 15 Years ago at 3/23/09 9:40 AM
Created 15 Years ago at 3/23/09 9:40 AM

RE: Pranayama and energy practices to support your practice?

Posts: 22924 Join Date: 8/6/09 Recent Posts
Author: Crazywisdom

The mantra used in the AYP system (I AM) also apear to be very powerfull and gives people much faster progress in concentration than observing the breath. But that might of course be because they have not gotten good enough instructions on Jhanas. Anyway go to aypsite.org if interested. AYP should also be intereseting for people here because of its general aproach. It is a system made through experimentation by a guy who just cals himself Yogani beacuse he does not want a guru role and to be known to people. The practices are extreemly clearly explained and organized (he is an engineer), a lot of practices often included in similare systems is cut out because of lack of efficiency or too much danger, the system is open for development by the users through experiement and discussion on the forum and the system is extreemly effective. Yogani is very interested in what he calls aplied spiritual science which is basicly finding the most efficient practices to get poeple elightened while remaining safe and balanced. He expects the system he has made to eventualy be changed quite a lot through the combined effort of those using it and to evnetualy be replaced by something better.
Helder C Pereira, modified 15 Years ago at 3/23/09 11:30 AM
Created 15 Years ago at 3/23/09 11:30 AM

RE: Pranayama and energy practices to support your practice?

Posts: 0 Join Date: 8/24/09 Recent Posts
This is very interesting for me as I have been following the AYP system (mostly just doing Yogani's deep meditation regularly) for 10 months now and only recently came across samatha-vipassana meditation techniques. I personally find that using the breath as an object for samatha, rather that the I AM mantra, feels more natural to me, less 'artificial'. I also am getting very good results from it, that I did not get from the I AM mantra (more 'gentle' than the mantra, and seems to me more 'conscious').

I am sorry, maybe I am derailing topic here (this is my first post). Will probably open a new thread on this as my doubts are wheter a breath based samatha meditation would be less effective than AYP's mantra meditation.
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tarin greco, modified 15 Years ago at 3/23/09 12:23 PM
Created 15 Years ago at 3/23/09 12:23 PM

RE: Pranayama and energy practices to support your practice?

Posts: 658 Join Date: 5/14/09 Recent Posts
deconstructing reality by active noting, and then later, subtle noticing, helps you take things apart layer by layer, watching them arise, and then importantly, seeing them pass and cease without remainder. getting really used to doing this takes practice, but once you really get it down awakening should occur soon enough. the less else you do with your mind and the more obsessively you spend each and every single moment doing this, i think, the more likely it will happen sooner rather than later.

therefore, if stream-entry is your goal, i'd say its probably better/more expedient to do it with straight-up insight practice first and then explore your other energy or concentration options after that's done. the reason i think this is because there are way too many paths and places that paths diverge, and until fruition happens you don't really, fully know what you're looking for.. just groping around in the dark until you hit upon the light switch.
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Jackson Wilshire, modified 15 Years ago at 3/23/09 12:39 PM
Created 15 Years ago at 3/23/09 12:39 PM

RE: Pranayama and energy practices to support your practice?

Posts: 443 Join Date: 5/6/09 Recent Posts
Love this analogy, man. Nice.
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triple think, modified 15 Years ago at 3/23/09 2:27 PM
Created 15 Years ago at 3/23/09 2:27 PM

RE: Pranayama and energy practices to support your practice?

Posts: 362 Join Date: 8/22/09 Recent Posts
I began doing Qi Gong over 25 years ago. For me it fits into 'in all postures of the day' in a dry insight sense. I use 'bending and stretching' and 'walking' in this way and yes this mindful movement does boost concentration. This is a powerful fitness regime but I find more than an hour a day of taichi/qi gong is counter productive and generates 'too much fitness' (if that makes sense to anyone!) Walking can continue for many hours without being counterproductive.

I too have found insight the most effective work to do regardless of whatever else is happening and I frequently relate it to the satipatthana model in some way. I find it almost more productive when the body is run down or ill and so on. I have found it deeply liberating to let go of my attraction to wellness and blissful physical conditions in ways. It is very interesting how the indication that one feels very well can be misinterpreted for progress in terms of actual awakening. I think wellness is worth a reasonable amount of attention each day but I have come around to seeing conditions much differently in the long run.

http://www.littlenineheaven.com/l9h.html
Shih Shui (Bone Marrow Washing)
"A student of shih shui strives to unite his physical and chi or spiritual bodies as one. The system of shih shui consists of three levels: Transfer of the ching (sperm) to the chi; transfer of the chi to the shen (spirit); and cultivate the shen to return to the stage of shu (emptiness). By cultivating this chi into a higher form, one will be in harmony with nature and the universe."

This is more or less the way I have seen this centrally applied in Qi Gong. Microcosmic and Macrocosmic orbits are another matter. I find that marrow washing is a major detox. Whenever you push energy to detox you need to be ready to deal with the toxins coming out of your body and possible 'healing crises'.
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triple think, modified 15 Years ago at 3/23/09 3:11 PM
Created 15 Years ago at 3/23/09 3:11 PM

RE: Pranayama and energy practices to support your practice?

Posts: 362 Join Date: 8/22/09 Recent Posts
There are usually a fair amount of cleansing and circulating work preliminary to this, the foundational Taoist breathing and the cleansing of the saliva and the blood in a preliminary way. The orbits are also more fundamental and there is a lot of 'unblocking energy flow' and 'deep tissue' healing work that more and more fully opens up the energy flow. The marrow cleansing and transmutation of energies is more subtle and advanced work on that basis. There are many details that usually a skilled teacher provides in the context of regular instruction. It is all very slow and gentle work, pushing too hard because one is enthusiastic about the effects can create a variety of problems that may not all be understood by those with insufficient training and experience and that can be worse than not working with these kinds of energy at all. But the techniques, with masterful supervision, work well for the purposes, as far as I know.
This Good Self, modified 12 Years ago at 6/9/11 9:39 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 6/9/11 9:39 PM

RE: Pranayama and energy practices to support your practice?

Posts: 946 Join Date: 3/9/10 Recent Posts
triple think:
I find that marrow washing is a major detox. Whenever you push energy to detox you need to be ready to deal with the toxins coming out of your body and possible 'healing crises'.


Triple, can you talk a bit more about this? Whenever I meditate I feel horrible. My bones and joints ache so much I can't sit still and don't know what to do with myself. I go cold and can't warm up unless i stand under a very hot shower. Is there a way to help this process, if it is indeed detoxification of some sort?

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