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Check If You’re A Stream Enterer

Check If You’re A Stream Enterer
Answer
8/8/18 10:48 AM
Hi this is my first post after learning from here a lot all these times. Like most of you I meditate from learning via online. I’d like to try help those who come to attainments but not so sure, correct me if I’m wrong as I was having these troubles too.

Lets see the first 3 fetters from the list :
- Identity / sakkaya-ditthi
- Doubt / vicikiccha
- Ritual , rites attachment / silabbata-paramas

These first 3 fetters are the nature of our mind, not our feeling nor our body, not even our citta/consciouness/soul -whicever you like to call.
  
4th fetter is from feelings : ill will
5th fetter is from body : sense desire
6-10th fetters are from citta/soul

Identity is mind-made, what you gather from the day born, a man, friend, father, your job. And then to strengthen the identity, you work on gathering belongings, this is mine, and these and these.

If you’re an animal , without a human mind ,you dont gather identity ,you just gather food to survive, animal dont have belongings, some dont even recognise their mother.

Doubts is what makes you start comparing things. In order to survive in this world , the nature of your mind help you by differentiating a lion is danger but a chicken is yummy. But apart from survival, you doubt everything, compare everything , from your income till your marriage you compare. Fail to understand karma, fail to understand living in this world is full of uncertainty. Till the road of enlightment also you doubt which method is better. Sceptical is good, to find the truth you experiment, experience. Doubt isnt, you compare just what benefits you and your picky mind. When you understand buddha teaching, no doubt, practice and practice. Faith will come when you see the truth through experiencing not just reading. No more comparing when you’ve mastered your own mind.

Rites/Ritual was what happened in india in times of buddha. Nowadays it’s you believing someone sitting up there watching you, or something creepy hiding in darkness ready yo eat you. Therefore, never overestimate anything/anyone, and never underestimate anything/ anyone. You can become gods too with good karma or hungry ghosts too with bad karma. If really you’ve encounter demon or any like that, see it’s a part of your karma too , some karma of your past , bless them with happiness after you receive your karma.

Now because you’re human, most perfect creation on earth you have an intelligent mind, your soul, longing to have more, the greeds is mistaken by your mind, thats why it’s driving you crazy, to collect more in this limited world. Thats why greed is harmful. But if your greed is to expand inward, to liberate, to be boundless then you must be free from your own mind. 

If you have no mind - animal
if you just go by the nature of your mind - people
if you are beyond your own mind - stream enterer

But not yet free from the fetters of feeling , body and citta. For example you go to a dentist without anaesthetic, your mind already makes you suffer, before and after. A stream enterer has no fear from the mind, only suffer in his feeling and body when operation in progress. 

When Buddha said you’re not going to be born in lower realm, it means, even you’re borned there, the hell wont accept you. Imagine the punisher find a man without identity to hold, doubt and fear, punishing such person will just make the punisher sad and even quit the job.


.Yes he will experience the pain but as we know how your mind multiple even 100x the pain which makes you suffer most, SE only suffer 1x, continuing might even make this man become anagami.

So check if you’re a stream enterer :
- Suppose you lost all your belongings, will you be ok?
- Suppose you lose all your family, friends , will you be ok?
- Do you still comparing things which makes you sad and strive for more?
- Have you not experience anything yet from your practice of buddha , dharma , sangha? 
- Suppose a big gods or demon appear before you, will you fear?
- Supporse I send you to hell now, to be burned and torture, will you be ok?

RE: Check If You’re A Stream Enterer
Answer
7/7/18 7:09 AM as a reply to Henry wijaya.
For some add ups, seems many confused the enlightment with jhanas, I think this might help.

Imagine fetters like Trees. Each fetters can be cut, by doing Sila to cut the Branches, Jhanas to cut the Trunk and Wisdom to cut the Root.

Isnt it wonderful to live a life as a Sotapanna, stream enterer.
The one who free from his own mind, the master of his mind, not the other way around.
The one who hold no identity, no belongings, no doubt, free from comparison mind, faithful , no fear , heaven cant fulfill him , hell wont accept him.

For such a being, does he need any approval anymore? 
Claim or no-claim isnt a matter anymore, But when claiming is useful , he’ll claim

Metta

RE: Check If You’re A Stream Enterer
Answer
7/9/18 4:51 AM as a reply to Henry wijaya.
Does stream entry affect your relationships with other people. For example does it increase or decrease empathy or compassion?

RE: Check If You’re A Stream Enterer
Answer
7/9/18 5:05 AM as a reply to Jim Smith.
If humans are the most perfect creation on earth, why are they so imperfect?! Haha. 

RE: Check If You’re A Stream Enterer
Answer
7/9/18 5:57 AM as a reply to Peter S.
They are "perfectly" designed to allow us learn under the great teacher Karma.

RE: Check If You’re A Stream Enterer
Answer
7/9/18 8:00 AM as a reply to Henry wijaya.
Even according to the traditional 10 Fetters model--which many yogis here at the DhO do not accept, by the way--Stream Entry frees you from the first three fetters only. The list of questions at the end of your post reads like a litmus test for full buddhahood, not Stream Entry. No?

The description of a Sotapanna as one who holds no identity--it would be interesting to get a sharp translator of Pali to explain that further. Is it supposed to mean that a stream enterer has utterly and completely eradicated all identity? I don't think so. Otherwise, wouldn't the tradition then say that all 10 fetters are broken upon this attainment? Notice that conceit--a self-identity view related to whether one is greater or lesser than another--is listed as one of the last fetters to go.

If you're saying that all self-identity views are eradicated upon Stream Entry, then the traditional 10 Fetters model makes no sense. It must be that SE brings about a loosening, a leavening of self-identity views such that one no longer clings to them tightly as before. In that case, it seems very much possible for a Sotapanna to, for example, grieve at the loss of his family or friends.
"There are these ten fetters. Which ten? Five lower fetters & five higher fetters. And which are the five lower fetters? Self-identity views, uncertainty, grasping at precepts & practices, sensual desire, & ill will. These are the five lower fetters. And which are the five higher fetters? Passion for form, passion for what is formless, conceit, restlessness, & ignorance. These are the five higher fetters. And these are the ten fetters."

 

RE: Check If You’re A Stream Enterer
Answer
7/9/18 12:29 PM as a reply to Jim Smith.
Jim Smith:
Does stream entry affect your relationships with other people. For example does it increase or decrease empathy or compassion?


At first time the clouds is cleared and the roots is plugged, there’s only confusion : what just happened??
Gradually you perception shifted, you start to talk to others from your new perception of life, just to find out not everyone aim for liberation, some just love samsara/sankhara. Sometimes you even caught in debates. 
So does it affect, of course it will. But you really need to practise wisdom , since you’re free from your own mind, you can start to see how others are entangled by those fetters, finding a way to help others by words would be your goal eventually. Compassion and empathy of course will increase as you already sees that you will do the same if you’re him, identified , doubted , feared by his own mind creation fetters . A stream enterer cannot be hurt just by words from others, bcause he can lose his identity anytime he want. His practise of wisdom will keep on increasing as he sees the beginning and ending of every problem.

RE: Check If You’re A Stream Enterer
Answer
7/9/18 12:32 PM as a reply to Peter S.
Peter S:
If humans are the most perfect creation on earth, why are they so imperfect?! Haha. 


Simply because of those entanglement or fetters.
Carrying your fetters around you is like a locust, destroying every path you walked on.
After liberated, he sees all those absurdity before him.
A man without fetters is like a bee, nurturing every path he walked on. 

RE: Check If You’re A Stream Enterer
Answer
7/9/18 12:36 PM as a reply to Jim Smith.
Jim Smith:
They are "perfectly" designed to allow us learn under the great teacher Karma.


Karma isnt our teacher in my opinion, karma is our doings, the seeds we plant. 
Actually in abhidhamma there are detailed explanations for karma.In one seconds there’s thousands to millions thoughts appear and dissapear right away, every thought has its own karma, the seeds. But if you do not nurtured the seeds, the fruit wont come out.So it’s not every seeds you plant will be fruitful. They need right nurtured and conditions to be fruitful.And there’s also unavoidable fruits from direct big seed you plant, which one is catagorized etc.
Now as you’re in the right path, what we need to understand is only these:

  • To plant a great seed, one must be a great farmer first. As long as you still so full of yourself, your good intention might cause harm to others.
  • To go beyond karma, everything you do, you’re not doing it for yourself but for others around you, you do it joyfully as if any fruit that only good for you if it’s towards your liberation.
  • To train yourself beyond whichever bad karma fruits hit you, it won’t be able to harm you anymore.
Metta

RE: Check If You’re A Stream Enterer
Answer
7/9/18 1:36 PM as a reply to Tashi Tharpa.
Tashi Tharpa:
Even according to the traditional 10 Fetters model--which many yogis here at the DhO do not accept, by the way--Stream Entry frees you from the first three fetters only. The list of questions at the end of your post reads like a litmus test for full buddhahood, not Stream Entry. No? 

The description of a Sotapanna as one who holds no identity--it would be interesting to get a sharp translator of Pali to explain that further. Is it supposed to mean that a stream enterer has utterly and completely eradicated all identity? I don't think so. Otherwise, okokwouldn't the tradition then say that all 10 fetters are broken upon this attainment? Notice that conceit--a self-identity view related to whether one is greater or lesser than another--is listed as one of the last fetters to go.

If you're saying that all self-identity views are eradicated upon Stream Entry, then the traditional 10 Fetters model makes no sense. It must be that SE brings about a loosening, a leavening of self-identity views such that one no longer clings to them tightly as before. In that case, it seems very much possible for a Sotapanna to, for example, grieve at the loss of his family or friends.
"There are these ten fetters. Which ten? Five lower fetters & five higher fetters. And which are the five lower fetters? Self-identity views, uncertainty, grasping at precepts & practices, sensual desire, & ill will. These are the five lower fetters. And which are the five higher fetters? Passion for form, passion for what is formless, conceit, restlessness, & ignorance. These are the five higher fetters. And these are the ten fetters."



Let’s see, if Buddha only talk about sakkaya ditthi as wrongful view of identity, then this is not even beyond duality of his teachings. Sakkaya means self, ditthi means view. Identity means how your view of your own self, created by your own mind. 

Ajahn amaro explain different between conceit/mana and the first fetter here https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=5YdRFlLupUM

C
onceit is what you call as me, the pride and satisfaction arise whenever you’re doing something great.

My questions of course indicating the suffering from your mind, not feeling and body.
For example your family which you identify as family (some has no home so they identify their friends as family) . When they’re so close to you, of course they also become attached to your feelings. Thats why you’ll break your heart seeing them parted, you might cry your eyes out, but as your mind hold no identity, you only experience the emotional upset condition. Sometimes your feeling would trigger your mind to create those memories to pro longed the sadness.

But knowing no identity to be attached with, it will cease right away. 
Knowing that we live in the world full of uncertainty. 
Knowing these people close to you, taken by their karma, you only can do these much.
Knowing anyone can be your family if you’re borned in another body.
Knowing your feeling would hurt, and it’s looking for a way to express its sadness. 

Which then, the 4th fetter ill will from the feeling, will do its work, looking for its way to express its unfulfillment, which will suffers you, which SE not yet eradicated. 
So which suffering he ended are just those 3 from the mind. Identity isnt created by our feeling or body or consciousness, its from our mind’s nature. Jump into Jhana then examined closely, you’ll see its nature, the absurdity of creating identity.

Example of mana/conceit : when a SE guru , having no attached to any identity, proud of his teachings accepted by people and become famous.
These five high fetters are hard to detect as it come from our citta/conscious/soul/perception

Im sorry to be dissapointing if the SE isnt as easy as we think. But looking for Pali translator instead of real SE or Arahants will satisfy us with lovely answers,  or just waiting for real answers when the maggots feasting our body. 

RE: Check If You’re A Stream Enterer
Answer
7/9/18 1:56 PM as a reply to Henry wijaya.
Henry wijaya:
Jim Smith:
They are "perfectly" designed to allow us learn under the great teacher Karma.


Karma isnt our teacher in my opinion, karma is our doings, the seeds we plant. 
...
Okay, I don't want to argue about the definition of Karma. 

What I mean is that good actions have good consequences and bad actions have bad consequences and in life or in the afterlife or in future lives, we eventually learn from experiencing the consequences of our actions that it is preferable to experience the good consequences of good actions. 

I don't know if this has anything to do with Buddhism, maybe it doesn't, I am just giving an answer to the question to which I replied according to my spiritual understanding. Being a human gives us many lessons which cannot be learned without taking physical form.


Metta

RE: Check If You’re A Stream Enterer
Answer
7/10/18 5:26 AM as a reply to Henry wijaya.
Henry wijaya:
Jim Smith:
Does stream entry affect your relationships with other people. For example does it increase or decrease empathy or compassion?


At first time the clouds is cleared and the roots is plugged, there’s only confusion : what just happened??
Gradually you perception shifted, you start to talk to others from your new perception of life, just to find out not everyone aim for liberation, some just love samsara/sankhara. Sometimes you even caught in debates. 
So does it affect, of course it will. But you really need to practise wisdom , since you’re free from your own mind, you can start to see how others are entangled by those fetters, finding a way to help others by words would be your goal eventually. Compassion and empathy of course will increase as you already sees that you will do the same if you’re him, identified , doubted , feared by his own mind creation fetters . A stream enterer cannot be hurt just by words from others, bcause he can lose his identity anytime he want. His practise of wisdom will keep on increasing as he sees the beginning and ending of every problem.

I am wondering about where the information you write about comes from? The sutras? Your personal experiences? Books? Teachers? Other sources?

Is it necessary to meditate daily to remain a stream enterer? If so, can  you say how much per day roughly? One hour? Three hours?


You write: "he can lose his identity anytime he want"

Can he still do it in the middle of the day while working at job that is very stressful (for most people)?  Or does he have to find a quiet place and meditate? What if he hasn't meditated for 5 years?

And is it similar or different to absorbtion where the separation between observer and observed disappears?

Thanks

RE: Check If You’re A Stream Enterer
Answer
7/11/18 7:18 PM as a reply to Jim Smith.
Jim Smith:
Henry wijaya:
Jim Smith:
Does stream entry affect your dkrelationships with other peoActually you’re right when you  bjsple. For exhample does it increase or decrease empathy or compassion?


At first time the clouds is cleared and the roots is plugged, there’s only confusion : what just happened??
Gradually you perception shifted, you start to talk to others from your new perception of life, just to find out not everyone aim for liberation, some just love samsara/sankhara. Sometimes you even caught in debates. 
So does it affect, of course it will. But you really need to practise wisdom , since you’re free from your own mind, you can start to see how others are entangled by those fetters, finding a way to help others by words would be your goal eventually. Compassion and empathy of course will increase as you already sees that you will do the same if you’re him, identified , doubted , feared by his own mind creation fetters . A stream enterer cannot be hurt just by words from others, bcause he can lose his identity anytime he want. His practise of wisdom will keep on increasing as he sees the beginning and ending of every problem.

I am wondering about where the information you write about comes from? The sutras? Your personal experiences? Books? Teachers? Other sources?ld

Is it necessary to meditate daily to remain a stream enterer? If so, can  you say how much per day roughly? One hour? Three hours?


You write: "he can lose his identity anytime he want"

Can he still do it in the middle of the day while working at job that is nvery stressful (for most people)?  Or does he have to find a quiet place and meditate? What if he hasn't meditated for 5 years?

And is it similar or different to absorbtion where the separation between observer and observed disappears?aij

Thanksm


Actually you’re right when you saying things according to  spiritual understanding not buddhism, which still in the end all these connect back to buddha teaching , I always like to differentiate the buddha teaching with buddhism. You cant blame, it’s a 2500 years of history. I even met a pali translator for tripitaka in my hometown, He put these “wrongful” word in the explanation for sakkaya ditthi (with a sign though ).  I asked him why? He said these would be eaily understood for readers. 

See when we approach teachings it is important to admit things you don’t know. If you beleieve, the truth seeking process will stop. If you disbelieve, you wont want to know furthe and be ignorant. But with “I dont’t know” , it means you are a spiritual person, unbounded by any misleading informations or groups.

It’s just the way we read suttas, reading with non believing and nor disbelieving  or reading with ehipasiko will get you to these information eventually. Of course many bhantes said these too like Ajahn Amaro. 

No I dont meditate nowadays, only when I felt sick or approached by negative beings I meditate. 
I mean you can drop any identitiy anytime, see you have to hold identities when you talk to people, connect with people, but when nobody around, you’re just a gentle whisper of wind blowing in summer breeze. 
When you’re working, people try to stab your identitiy, you can just drop it and know you’re wrong say yeah I admit Im still lots to learn, your mind create no suffering, how can working be stressful? Only when there’s an identity or belongings you try to chase. Try to work as volunteers , stress?  No way. 
It’s like you still know how to ride a bike after 5years no riding. 

That absorbtion you refers ,will leads you to find enlightment, but before you become one with object, one must lose himself entirely, anatta , sensing emptiness in  yourself . There are samadhi , jhanas for cutting branches. Wisdom to plug roots, then when no roots anymore you can lose the seperation of oberver and observed。
The problem are many people thought the separation is dissapeared.

RE: Check If You’re A Stream Enterer
Answer
7/11/18 8:28 PM as a reply to Henry wijaya.
Henry wijaya:


Actually you’re right when you saying things according to  spiritual understanding not buddhism, which still in the end all these connect back to buddha teaching , I always like to differentiate the buddha teaching with buddhism. You cant blame, it’s a 2500 years of history. I even met a pali translator for tripitaka in my hometown, He put these “wrongful” word in the explanation for sakkaya ditthi (with a sign though ).  I asked him why? He said these would be eaily understood for readers. 

See when we approach teachings it is important to admit things you don’t know. If you beleieve, the truth seeking process will stop. If you disbelieve, you wont want to know furthe and be ignorant. But with “I dont’t know” , it means you are a spiritual person, unbounded by any misleading informations or groups.

It’s just the way we read suttas, reading with non believing and nor disbelieving  or reading with ehipasiko will get you to these information eventually. Of course many bhantes said these too like Ajahn Amaro. 

No I dont meditate nowadays, only when I felt sick or approached by negative beings I meditate. 
I mean you can drop any identitiy anytime, see you have to hold identities when you talk to people, connect with people, but when nobody around, you’re just a gentle whisper of wind blowing in summer breeze. 
When you’re working, people try to stab your identitiy, you can just drop it and know you’re wrong say yeah I admit Im still lots to learn, your mind create no suffering, how can working be stressful? Only when there’s an identity or belongings you try to chase. Try to work as volunteers , stress?  No way. 
It’s like you still know how to ride a bike after 5years no riding. 

That absorbtion you refers ,will leads you to find enlightment, but before you become one with object, one must lose himself entirely, anatta , sensing emptiness in  yourself . There are samadhi , jhanas for cutting branches. Wisdom to plug roots, then when no roots anymore you can lose the seperation of oberver and observed。
The problem are many people thought the separation is dissapeared.

I don't know what "practice wisdom" means. I checked google it did not help. Can you explain what it is? Studying sutras? Meditating? (Maybe I know it by another term?)

How does one meditate to attain stream entry? There are many different types of meditation. Which do you recommend?

Do you have a web site, or can you suggest a web site that has more information about the school of Buddhism you follow.

Thanks

RE: Check If You’re A Stream Enterer
Answer
7/12/18 1:18 PM as a reply to Jim Smith.
Jim Smith:
[quote=Henry wijayxxxaxd

]

Actually you’re rigxht when you saying things according to  spiritual understanding nxxot buddhism, which still in the dend all these connect back to buddha teaching , I always like xto xdifferentiate the buddha ksbdteaching with buddhism. You cant sdsblame, it’s a 2500 years of history. I even met a
d
pali translator for tripitaka in my hometown, He put these “wrongful” word in the explanation for sakkaya ditthi (with a sign though ).  I asked him why? He said these would be eaily understood for readers. 

See when we approach teachings it is important to admit things you don’t know. If you beleieve, the truth seeking process will stop. If you disbelieve, you wont want to know furthe and be ignorant. But with “I dont’t know” , it means you are a spiritual person, unbounded by any misleading in
d
dformations or groups.

It’s just the way we read suttas, reading with non believing and nor disbelieving  or reading with ehipasiko will get you to these information eventually. Of course many bhantes said these too like Ajahn Amaro. 

No I dont meditate nowadays, only when I felt sick or approached by negative beings I meditate. 
I mean you can drop any identitiy anytime, see you have to hold identities when you talk to people, connect with people, but when nobody around, you’re just a gentle whisper of wind blowing in summer breeze. 
When you’re working, people try to stab your identitiy, you can just drop it and know you’re wrong say yeah I admit Im still lots to learn, your mind create no suffering, how can working be stressful? Only when there’s an identity or belongings you try to chase. Try to work as volunteers , stress?  No way. 
It’s like you still know how to ride a bike after 5years no riding. 

That absorbtion you refers ,will leads you to find enlightment, but before you become jone with object, one must lose himself entirely, anatta , sensing emptiness in  yourself . There are samadhi , jhanas for cutkstsing branches. Wisdom to plug roots, then when no roots anymore you can lose the dseperation of oberver and observed。ss
The problem are many people thought the separation is dissapeared.

I don't know what "practice wisdom" means. I checked google it did not help. Can you explain what it is? Studying sutras? Meditating? (Maybe I know it by another term?)

How does one meditate to attain stream entry? There are many different types of meditation. Which do you recommend?

Do you have a web site, or can you suggest a web site that has more information about the school of Buddhism you follow.

Thanks
I dont know if there is a method to meditate into a stream entry, there are ao many out there methods to make you have a glimpse into stream entry, sakadagami, anagami, arahat. But i dont really know one to make you attain them. It’s a practise of wisdom to lose fetters, but even wisdom only release those fetters/entanglement . In enlightment state you got to be totally receiptful,  totally surrender, even wisdom you must give up. 

Practise wisdom is like bringing things you learned in your meditation and see how a non-resistance person you’ve become with these wisdom

So many methods you can try which suitable for you, even this forums has the great noting methods. But the key always the same for jhanas, attain unconditional happiess, equanimous, boundless space, consciousness, emptiness, sensing anatta. Then bring wisdom into practice, how you become solution for others and non a slight of resistance in yourself.  If I have to recommend, I’d recommend that youtube with title “samadhi”. 

RE: Check If You’re A Stream Enterer
Answer
7/12/18 1:26 PM as a reply to Tashi Tharpa.
Tashi Tharpa:
Even according to the traditional 10 Fetters model--which many yogis here at the DhO do not accept, by the way--Stream Entry frees you from the first three fetters only. The list of questions at the end of your post reads like a litmus test for full buddhahood, not Stream Entry. No?

The description of a Sotapanna as one who holds no identity--it would be interesting to get a sharp translator of Pali to explain that further. Is it supposed to mean that a stream enterer has utterly and completely eradicated all identity? I don't think so. Otherwise, wouldn't the tradition then say that all 10 fetters are broken upon this attainment? Notice that conceit--a self-identity view related to  whether one is greater or lesser than another--is listed as one of the last fetters to go.

If you're saying that all self-identity views are eradicated upon Stream Entry, then the traditional 10 Fetters model makes no sense. It must be that SE brings about a loosening, a leavening of self-identity views such that one no longer clings to them tightly as before. In that case, it seems very much possible for a Sotapanna to, for example, grieve at the loss of his family or friends.
"There are these ten fetters. Which ten? Five lower fetters & five higher fetters. And which are the five lower fetters? Self-identity views, uncertainty, grasping at precepts & practices, sensual desire, & ill will. These are the five lower fetters. And which are the five higher fetters? Passion for form, passion for what is formless, conceit, restlessness, & ignorance. These are the five higher fetters. And these are the ten fetters."

 
A good example of a person losing the first fetter sakkaya ditthi / identity / self view :

Imagine a person who lost his memory after w car crash, no identity.
But look ; still have doubts, fear, unsatisfying feeling, excessive body fulfilment, restless, conceit, ignorance.

RE: Check If You’re A Stream Enterer
Answer
7/13/18 11:45 PM as a reply to Henry wijaya.
No Self view = complete perceptual nonduality in waking hours 
No doubt = complete confidence that one can operate skillfully in any situation
No attachment to rules = complete fluidity & adaptability of behavior & attitude to be happy in life 


RE: Check If You’re A Stream Enterer
Answer
7/13/18 11:57 PM as a reply to Jim Smith.
Jim Smith:
Okay, I don't want to argue about the definition of Karma. 

What I mean is that good actions have good consequences and bad actions have bad consequences and in life or in the afterlife or in future lives, we eventually learn from experiencing the consequences of our actions that it is preferable to experience the good consequences of good actions. 

I don't know if this has anything to do with Buddhism, maybe it doesn't, I am just giving an answer to the question to which I replied according to my spiritual understanding. Being a human gives us many lessons which cannot be learned without taking physical form.


Metta



https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/thanissaro/headandheart.html

Head & Heart Together
Bringing Wisdom to the Brahma-viharas
by
Thanissaro Bhikkhu
© 2009
...
The teaching on karma starts with the principle that people experience happiness and sorrow based on a combination of their past and present intentions. If we act with unskillful intentions either for ourselves or for others, we're going to suffer. If we act with skillful intentions, we'll experience happiness. So if we want to be happy, we have to train our intentions to always be skillful. This is the first reason for developing the brahma-viharas: so that we can make our intentions more trustworthy.

RE: Check If You’re A Stream Enterer
Answer
7/14/18 7:21 AM as a reply to Henry wijaya.
Henry wijaya:
A good example of a person losing the first fetter sakkaya ditthi / identity / self view :

Imagine a person who lost his memory after w car crash, no identity.
But look ; still have doubts, fear, unsatisfying feeling, excessive body fulfilment, restless, conceit, ignorance.
Well, this is an interesting question: Is losing your memory the same thing as the losing the first fetter?

I don't think it is.

The loss of that first fetter, it seems to me, is the result of the cascading effects on the mind and body of having had the non-experience that is cessation.

My take: After cessation, all of the old habitual patterns and hard-wired forms of reactivity are still in place, but the person can never really go back to being an uninstructed worldling. Something has been glimpsed. It has left a lasting impression.

If a person brings maximum observing power to those patterns and phenomena as they continue to arise and pass away, freedom starts to grow. Equanimity increases.

Doubts, fears, unsatisfying feelings, bodily cravings, restlessness, conceit--these types of things will continue to arise. But, to put it in the words of Kenneth Folk, who I believe may have been quoting or paraphrasing Nisargadatta, they will be less "sticky."

Michael Taft has described research showing how meditative adepts do not get profoundly startled by sudden, loud sounds. This is a good analogy, I think. An adept might have a quick mental/physical reaction to something--let's say someone insults his son, triggering anger and hurt and ill will--but if that adept is paying attention and has the right intentions, this whole process of anger blooming and getting out of control will be short-circuited very quickly. Nobody gets punched or screamed at, and the adept is wise enough not to spend hours and hours thinking about what has just occurred and stirring up all kinds of negative emotions and imagined scenarios. 

I know this is different from the traditional description of complete uprooting. 

I don't really fully buy into that description. I think freedom isn't about fully uprooting; it's more about not clinging to the phenomena associated with experiencing dukkha and spreading it to others. 

The vision of a human being who never experiences anything unpleasant and never does anything unskillful, who moves through the world completely untouched, doesn't seem realistic or inspiring to me. That doesn't mean this never happens. I try to keep an open mind. There are plenty of good teachers who teach the Ten Fetters model in a traditional way and see value in it. I'm following (or trying to) the instructions of Culadasa right now, and he seems to be one of those teachers.

The great thing about Buddhism--you aren't required to believe anything. You can test the teachings and find out for yourself what is true in your own experience. If I'm totally wrong, that's fine! 



  

RE: Check If You’re A Stream Enterer
Answer
7/15/18 6:15 AM as a reply to Noah D.
Noah D:
No Self view = complete perceptual nonduality in waking hours 
No doubt = complete confidence that one can operate skillfully in any situation
No attachment to rules = complete fluidity & adaptability of behavior & attitude to be happy in  life 



I see you’ve reached such a state.. what a wonderful life isn’t it!

Well when you’ve losen up ur identity then you can see things clear with nonduality.. those are the one of the effects from losing the first fetter.

Still there are areas not in our learnings, there’ll still be mistakes in life but we admit and learn through easily.

When unconditional happines in our hand yes we choose to be happy instead of unhappy , but this fetter is about losing fear actually.

Very nice point of viewNoah