Geeking out on frame rates and super-resolution noting - Discussion
Geeking out on frame rates and super-resolution noting
JohnM, modified 6 Years ago at 8/8/18 2:58 AM
Created 6 Years ago at 8/8/18 2:51 AM
Geeking out on frame rates and super-resolution noting
Posts: 88 Join Date: 1/7/18 Recent Posts
I had an ephiphany last December when I read Daniel's book and received a well-timed refresher in high-resolution noting. Watching this video about what the eye/mind do with game/TV formats and frame rates, I began to ask myself how many blips per second the mind is capable of perceiving. What constitutes super-resolution noting? What frequency adequate for awakening noting? Hmm.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxNBiAV4UnM
The perceptive exploration gets going at 5:23 and really heats up around 6:05, peaking at 14:56 with a slightly psychadelic finale before going back to TV formats. If this guy isn't a meditator, he should be!
I seem to remember the Abhidhamma saying there's 17 units in a mind moment packet of knowing, and 64 mind moments in the snap of your fingers. Have to check. The authors must have verified their findings through direct meditative scrutiny.
This might lead me to more on the official stats: https://puredhamma.net/abhidhamma/gandhabbaya-manomaya-kaya/gandhabbaya-manomaya-kaya-introduction/
What's your experience?
Personally at the moment I'm back in kinetoscope at one or two per second. Back to the cushion!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxNBiAV4UnM
The perceptive exploration gets going at 5:23 and really heats up around 6:05, peaking at 14:56 with a slightly psychadelic finale before going back to TV formats. If this guy isn't a meditator, he should be!
I seem to remember the Abhidhamma saying there's 17 units in a mind moment packet of knowing, and 64 mind moments in the snap of your fingers. Have to check. The authors must have verified their findings through direct meditative scrutiny.
This might lead me to more on the official stats: https://puredhamma.net/abhidhamma/gandhabbaya-manomaya-kaya/gandhabbaya-manomaya-kaya-introduction/
What's your experience?
Personally at the moment I'm back in kinetoscope at one or two per second. Back to the cushion!
Daniel M Ingram, modified 6 Years ago at 8/8/18 5:52 PM
Created 6 Years ago at 8/8/18 5:52 PM
RE: Geeking out on frame rates and super-resolution noting
Posts: 3293 Join Date: 4/20/09 Recent Posts
I have only achieved discrete, countable/extrapolatable speeds past about 40Hz or so in very rare, fleeting moments, usually on the tale end of the ramp up of an A&P-style event, but have easy access to stuff in the mid 20Hz range.
Adam, modified 6 Years ago at 8/8/18 7:02 PM
Created 6 Years ago at 8/8/18 7:02 PM
RE: Geeking out on frame rates and super-resolution noting
Posts: 110 Join Date: 3/10/16 Recent PostsDaniel M Ingram, modified 6 Years ago at 8/8/18 10:59 PM
Created 6 Years ago at 8/8/18 10:59 PM
RE: Geeking out on frame rates and super-resolution noting
Posts: 3293 Join Date: 4/20/09 Recent Posts
Various ways, but you might start simply if you wish to try this.
Start by counting "one one thou sand", which, if you say it at a normal pace, should take a second.
The syllables number four, so that is 4Hz, one pulse or syllable per every 1/4th of a second, or four syllables per second.
Ok, now get musical with this, if you have some musical sense, as this makes counting frequencies a lot easier.
You can make it two triplets and get 6Hz by saying or thinking "one and one thou ow sand" in a second.
Try doubling the pulse of each syllable, which could be done various ways, such as "oneone oneone thouthous sandsand", and still think this in a second, so you now have 8Hz. You could try tapping this with your hands, and you will notice that it is pretty easy to tap 8 times per second.
Making them triplets gets you 12Hz, still pretty tappable.
Making them quadruplets gets you to 16Hz, getting hard to tap for most people, but your mind can easily go faster than your fingers, so still mentally pretty doable.
Getting faster than quadruplets requires some diving into the experience and likely some dedicated practice.
I tend to just double the quadruplets and get 32Hz, which then allows some extrapolation of frequencies in the range between 16Hz and 32Hz.
Speed 32Hz up either feeling that pulse and just speeding it up a bit, or starting with five syllables (which, multiplied by eight gets you 40), will get you a sense of what 40Hz is like, which is zipping fast. There is an app called Audio Function Generator (Pro), which can create wareforms of various types and is great for getting a sense of how fast these pulses are. I have no financial relationship to this app, BTW. If you set it on the waveform farthest to the right (looks sort of like a very flipped sideways "Z") and put in the frequency you are interested in, you can start to learn how fast these are. There are other sound generating apps and devices that will also work.
You can listen to each of them and get a sense of how fast each pulse is, and then, after doing that, if you have an ear for it, you can more rapidly get a sense of how fast pulses of experiences are without having to do all the counting, though the counting is really useful in the beginning when trhing to learn how to do this.
Like so many things that initially seem daunting, this just requires practice.
I remember when I first started playing scales on my guitar, and it took me seconds to get my fingers to move to the position for each note, and I felt like I had some sort of movement disorder, I felt so clumsy, but now I can play scales faster than I can easily see my fingers hit each note, and yet they do hit them, and I can hear my fingers hit them, but it is now faster than my eye can follow when I get up to maximum speed. Learning to play scales fast took me a lot of practice, many, many hours over years. This process of leaning to count frequencies actually came more easily than playing scales fast, but I still found a lot of work.
Be patient and start with the slower pulses and build up until this is natural for you, if you wish to play the "how fast is my mind going" game, which is a pretty fun game, if you are a serious dharma phenomenology geek like I am.
Enjoy!
Daniel
Start by counting "one one thou sand", which, if you say it at a normal pace, should take a second.
The syllables number four, so that is 4Hz, one pulse or syllable per every 1/4th of a second, or four syllables per second.
Ok, now get musical with this, if you have some musical sense, as this makes counting frequencies a lot easier.
You can make it two triplets and get 6Hz by saying or thinking "one and one thou ow sand" in a second.
Try doubling the pulse of each syllable, which could be done various ways, such as "oneone oneone thouthous sandsand", and still think this in a second, so you now have 8Hz. You could try tapping this with your hands, and you will notice that it is pretty easy to tap 8 times per second.
Making them triplets gets you 12Hz, still pretty tappable.
Making them quadruplets gets you to 16Hz, getting hard to tap for most people, but your mind can easily go faster than your fingers, so still mentally pretty doable.
Getting faster than quadruplets requires some diving into the experience and likely some dedicated practice.
I tend to just double the quadruplets and get 32Hz, which then allows some extrapolation of frequencies in the range between 16Hz and 32Hz.
Speed 32Hz up either feeling that pulse and just speeding it up a bit, or starting with five syllables (which, multiplied by eight gets you 40), will get you a sense of what 40Hz is like, which is zipping fast. There is an app called Audio Function Generator (Pro), which can create wareforms of various types and is great for getting a sense of how fast these pulses are. I have no financial relationship to this app, BTW. If you set it on the waveform farthest to the right (looks sort of like a very flipped sideways "Z") and put in the frequency you are interested in, you can start to learn how fast these are. There are other sound generating apps and devices that will also work.
You can listen to each of them and get a sense of how fast each pulse is, and then, after doing that, if you have an ear for it, you can more rapidly get a sense of how fast pulses of experiences are without having to do all the counting, though the counting is really useful in the beginning when trhing to learn how to do this.
Like so many things that initially seem daunting, this just requires practice.
I remember when I first started playing scales on my guitar, and it took me seconds to get my fingers to move to the position for each note, and I felt like I had some sort of movement disorder, I felt so clumsy, but now I can play scales faster than I can easily see my fingers hit each note, and yet they do hit them, and I can hear my fingers hit them, but it is now faster than my eye can follow when I get up to maximum speed. Learning to play scales fast took me a lot of practice, many, many hours over years. This process of leaning to count frequencies actually came more easily than playing scales fast, but I still found a lot of work.
Be patient and start with the slower pulses and build up until this is natural for you, if you wish to play the "how fast is my mind going" game, which is a pretty fun game, if you are a serious dharma phenomenology geek like I am.
Enjoy!
Daniel
JohnM, modified 6 Years ago at 8/9/18 8:42 AM
Created 6 Years ago at 8/9/18 8:42 AM
RE: Geeking out on frame rates and super-resolution noting
Posts: 88 Join Date: 1/7/18 Recent PostsAdam, modified 6 Years ago at 8/9/18 11:29 AM
Created 6 Years ago at 8/9/18 11:29 AM
RE: Geeking out on frame rates and super-resolution noting
Posts: 110 Join Date: 3/10/16 Recent Postsspatial, modified 6 Years ago at 8/10/18 8:15 AM
Created 6 Years ago at 8/10/18 8:15 AM
RE: Geeking out on frame rates and super-resolution noting
Posts: 615 Join Date: 5/20/18 Recent PostsDaniel M. Ingram:
I remember when I first started playing scales on my guitar, and it took me seconds to get my fingers to move to the position for each note, and I felt like I had some sort of movement disorder, I felt so clumsy, but now I can play scales faster than I can easily see my fingers hit each note, and yet they do hit them, and I can hear my fingers hit them, but it is now faster than my eye can follow when I get up to maximum speed. Learning to play scales fast took me a lot of practice, many, many hours over years. This process of leaning to count frequencies actually came more easily than playing scales fast, but I still found a lot of work.
As a piano teacher, I see people struggling with fast scales all the time. The trick is to group notes together, rather than playing them one at a time. I play guitar too (not nearly as well as piano), and the principle is the same there, as well. Like drumming your fingers on the table, it's very easy to do it quickly when you think of 4 (or even 8) notes as a single action. Still takes hours of practice, though!
JohnM, modified 6 Years ago at 8/10/18 8:37 AM
Created 6 Years ago at 8/10/18 8:37 AM
RE: Geeking out on frame rates and super-resolution noting
Posts: 88 Join Date: 1/7/18 Recent Posts
Yes, I think they call this chunking in chess. Daniel's triplets, etc.
I'm curious how the insight-tuned mind works with this - whether chunking is a side-track to conceptualization or a bona fide path to higher-grained perception.
My instruments are still pretty primitive. Anybody rocking Jhana 4.0 or Path 1.0 or better care to weigh in on this? :-)
In the meantime this is plenty to work with. Pumped!
I'm curious how the insight-tuned mind works with this - whether chunking is a side-track to conceptualization or a bona fide path to higher-grained perception.
My instruments are still pretty primitive. Anybody rocking Jhana 4.0 or Path 1.0 or better care to weigh in on this? :-)
In the meantime this is plenty to work with. Pumped!