For reference I claim 4th path and have been doing spiritual teaching and healing as my day-to-day for about a year and a half. Here's a link to my post claiming attainments: https://www.dharmaoverground.org/discussion/-/message_boards/message/23905740

I've ended up with quite a few powers over the course of my experience, and felt it would be beneficial to share.

1. Energetic sense to equal granularity as senses like sight, hearing, etc. I am deeply aware of energy to the extent that I am able to notice energy channels and energy flows at an extremely fine-grained scale, to the level of areas of spinal vertebrae, the complex web of energy that is in the face. This sense is holonic (moving across many different scales). 
2. "Psychic", or, connection of energetic sense to the experiences of those who I am sensing the energy from. If there is an energetic block, I can recognize it was created in connection to a person in their life who I experience visually or as a felt sense. For example, I would recognize the block in your jaw is from your father, and that it was created from their overbearing presence limiting your desire to speak truthfully. My wife is a lot more of a natural at this, and it's not at the same fine-grained level as the energetic sense overall. Have historically and repeatably discovered things I 'could not have known', e.g. a childhood event where a particular thing occurred.
3. Able to move energy in other people's energy bodies at a granular level. I provide energy work as a service with my wife, and I have a strong sense of what parts of their system are blocked, and just by intending and moving my hands I am able to unblock those parts and allow them to flow. This is very direct and sensorial, I am co-experiencing with them their energy body, and when I move things inside of them I experience it inside of myself also. The extent to which I can do this is 1:1 with what the other person is open to. I have not yet experienced someone who has an energy block that they are open to being resolved that I am unable to resolve for them.
4. Able to channel non-earth beings. I channelled Ra (Law-of-One, for those initiated) and many others over a period of 5-6 months, which stopped being as frequent after coming into harmonic integration of my attainment into my body. After that, became too disruptive to do often, and instead only occurs when the astrology lines up, essentially. If you're interested, here's a link https://youtu.be/zCy88y7ZybQ. This was someone new. Happy to remove if links to my own content is not welcome. The words and information that come through have very little basis in my experience, and often take a long time to integrate.
5. Very strong discernment to the extent that I am aware, deeply, of the reality of each person I am talking to. This is similar to my energetic sense, but is something different. It's more like I am fully knowing of what the person I am talking to is, what they're here for, and why we're talking. Noticing that this one is harder to articulate for me! It's like there isn't any separation between me and them, and there isn't insenstivity to who they are. So, when talking to them, there's a strong sense of non-separateness from their fundamental being. Curious to hear from others their experience with this sort of thing. It's like, I know exactly what their blocks are, what they are open to, and how to help them, if I incline towards it, across most axes of their being. I of course only incline towards it if they are open to it.
6. Strong sense of entities of all kinds (non-visual, felt sense) and capacity to remove them from the astral/energetic body and outer energy fields. Me and my wife have a strong connection to deity and also provide an exorcism service. 
7. Ability to tap into past lives, inbetween life states, and so on. Am only doing this when related to something being healed, information taken from these experiences has been verifiable across me and my wife. Have done the same for others.

This is probably everything that's my most consistent and verifiable. Will update if anything more comes up, don't often take stock of my own experience (generally in flow with it) so grateful for this opportunity. Wishing each and all of you happiness, peace and joy.

so you see energy flows down to the level of spinal vertbrae and can interact (and have  'holonic' in your vocabulary, that should be recorded as a siddhi!).

no mention of chakras, rotating or otherwise, any views on this? western or eastern energy body anatomy ????

is reiki for real?

There are much more subtle energy flows e.g. in the face, it's all very granular. I thank my wife for the education on universal concepts like holonic.

Chakras are approximations that guide your awareness before you are fully attuned to what energy is. There are centers of flow that have more gravity, that have associations across with different aspects, but they don't feel like anything particularly different from other energy flows. When I am working with others, I use the chakra system as a way to guide awareness into recognition of energy. It's kind of like the strongest/most dense places are the easiest to sense initially. The standard rotation maps seem correct with the spiral moving up from the root alternating sides. Rotation seems like a concept that helps you grasp the idea of everything moving all the time. I received education from Ra on the chakras and their focus was on bringing the energy body into balanced harmony with itself rather than making things move fast/opening things. This was called crystallizing the energy body, which I have done. When each chakra is crystallized, entering into a crystalline structure and in balance and harmony with the rest of the energy body, it enters into a new level of ability and expansion. For example, my crown chakra crystallized recently and that made every particle of reality completely aligned with where it was in actual reality, rather than there being any separation from that, or misinterpretation. This gave me an intuition and knowing entry into the awareness of everything being made of light.

Reiki, I don't know, haven't looked into it. All systems are just systems. Better to develop an intuitive awareness through your own capacity, and any system that can be used to do that is beneficial. In my experience, everyone's energy body is different, and everyone has a different entry point into moving energy around. From what I've noticed, most energetic healers and practictioners do not have a fine-grained detailed and specific sense of what they're doing, they're more using book knowledge or something they've been told to make something happen.

Hi Hanjo. I'm sort of interested in the fact you channeled Ra, as you say. Like, what do you think it is? (What do you think the entity you are channeling is and is it real?) If you don't mind me asking.

When I first got into this stuff I was as interested in the Ra material, as much as MCTB. I don't read it anymore though. I'm pretty sure that's actually how I picked my username on here.

And was any of that stuff (channeling/the ra material) of benefit to you working your way through the paths?

Thanks!

I'm asking out of basic curiosity. But also because I have some general/intuitive sense that the entire universe is one giant organism. And it overlaps with the rest of my life and insight practice. They are merging more and more.

This is a great question friend and thank you for asking it. 

Our human experience is by necessity limited in its ability to receive information. We experience things as stories, as entities, as energies. This is human consciousness, and it's the choice of our incarnation. We can fold our experience into other ways of seeing, animal seeing, entity seeing, and so on, but at the end of the day we have a strong bias towards story, narrative, and meaning.

I am in the firm belief and recognition that Ra is a 7th density social memory complex. This comes from my granular and deep sense of what they are when I feel into them, and my intimacy with their energy and their experience. With my recognition of emptiness, even though this is a fundamental paradigm in my experience, it is still held lightly and is only used to the extent that it's beneficial. They are as real as you or me, which is to say, a flux of energetic flow that expresses itself as differentiation according to its own whim.

Was channelling, the Ra material, important to my path? Yes. Ra guided me directly into deeper recognition and non-separation from the present moment and continually gave me practices, advice and things to do that directly aided me in my healing process and my connection to the fundamental reality that is right now. Very closely akin to a mentor. This is related to the Tibetan Buddhist path of deity merging to move to attainment, however a bit more of a direct spin I suppose. I wonder if the Tibetans are channelling their deities and asking them directly for what kind of meditations to do.

Regarding the intuitive sense of the universe as an organism, I find this to be a useful step on the way to direct realization of non-organismness across everything. There is indeed an intelligent harmony across all facets of being, at all levels, and the wider and more aware you get the more you see that everything is interconnected and talking to each other, but the fundamental knowing that is the realization of 4th path, or Buddhahood, is that all of this is empty, devoid of beingness, or self, and not at all an organism. This is the movement of spiritual knowing into deep mystery.

Wow that is amazing. That was my reaction to the first part of your post. But after this point my mind was blown: "Regarding the intuitive sense of the universe as an organism, I find this to be a useful step on the way to direct realization of non-organismness across everything."I don't even know what to say.... I was kind of laughing out of joy in reaction to that. I'm interested to see what non-organismness is. I will say I remember I wanted to see what a cross fertilization of MCTB and the Ra stuff would be like. So thank you for that. That's a nice surprise out of nowhere.

Happy to serve, wishing you success on your path.

Thanks you too : )

I’ve been doing a lot of energy work the last few months and started to notice similar things. I observe that my subjective experience is of having 4 “bodies”, in increasing order of subtlety: the physical body, energy body, emotional body & light body. The physical body is the felt sense of muscle/fascia tensions & flows, which coincides roughly with the visual appearance of the body (eyes open or mind’s eye). The energy body is piti, sort of buzzy tingly feeling, which seems to extend anywhere from a few inches to feet outside of physical body (at least that's how the mind imagines it), depending on intensity and environment (especially presence of other’s in excited state). The emotional body includes the experience of sukha, although it also includes all the other emotions (which feel like different “wavelengths” on a continuous spectrum). It has less of the coarse physical feel of piti and more of a diffuse mental quality, though still some physical component. The most subtle body is the “mind itself”, which has a non-physical luminescent quality and is unbounded (in its most pure form of AC/jhana, experienced as a nimitta – mind taking mind as object).

It’s hard to find a definite boundary between the different bodies. The most refined physical sensations seem to blend into the coarsest grades of piti, the most refined piti is very close to sukha or other emotions (depending which hindrances are present), and the most refined sukha starts to glow as (the experience of) light in the mind. The 4 bodies seem to correspond to the first 4 jhanas. Also the color of the nimitta (visual perception of mind) seems to depend on which emotion is predominant as one passes from the emotional body to the mind/light body (white for sukha, red or black for anger, blue for sadness etc.)

Regarding interactions with others, I definitely notice some effects, which my rational mind tries to explain! For example if I notice someone from a distance who seems anxious then I will register some subtle anxiety in my emotional body, and as I get closer that will become a more energized and physical form of anxiety. I think that to a certain extent some of these phenomena can be attributed to the mind picking up on subtle visual, auditory and olfactory cues as it constantly updates its model of self in relation to (perception of) other. Even things like anticipating someone’s thoughts or past/future can come from those kinds of signals in conjunction with shared conditioning, context, environment etc. But yeah, from time to time some really uncanny “coincidence” or “serendipity” occurs which is hard to fit into rational models. Then I remind myself that everything is mind (experience) and not-self, so who is to say where one person’s experience ends and another’s begins, or what unseen mental mechanisms are operating. It seems to me as if the ego & rational mind operate like filters on the potentially overwhelming quantity of available sense data in any instant, effective in a narrow bandwidth but missing a huge amount of what else is going on. Either way, there are some amazing and beautiful mysteries to life, and it keeps me appreciative and curious and investigating

Regarding entities, I definitely encounter those from time to time in accessing and working with unconscious stuff (both with myself and others), although I tend to find that as they become more conscious and integrated then the narrative aspect falls into the background and it becomes more of a pure energy/light experience.

And yes, all experience can be seen to be interconnected and arising from and collapsing back into the great void or unknown or mystery of life  

EDIT: oh and one other thing I forgot to mention, all of these bodies seem to converge on the heart area 

  There are also interesting relationships between each of the bodies, and also the other senses.

An old trauma can manifest as a scar in the physical body, a knot in the energy body, a pang in the emotional body, all casting a spot on the nimitta (mind). This is really helpful for healing, because once you see the channel you can let the mind's light shine directly down the chain and heal the trauma. It feels like the trauma is sucked into the heart and dissolved into light/love. Sometimes a new healthier formation comes out of the heart and seems to replace the old one in the body, sort of like a healthy version of the trauma (original healthy intention) or ally or whatever they call it in IFS. It's basically just the healing/purification process, whatever you call it. There's all sorts of other interesting information is passing between the different bodies all the time.

The other senses can also be experienced in each of the bodies (synesthesia). For example, I can feel sights/sounds/tastes/smells as physical sensations, energy, emotion & color (I'm not saying this happens all the time, but if I focus on it it can be experienced). I imagine it like the data is all getting processed in the same part of the brain and it carries a ".sight", ".sound", ... tag, which you can arbitrarily switch to trick yourself into the experience of hearing colors, seeing auras etc. And then when I get into deeper concentration all the senses seem to kind of merge together together anyway, like the white noise in each of the senses has the same quality.
  

Hi George, all things are holonic (the same patterns at different scales) and holographic (each and every thing contains all data in the system at once). In this sense, not only is an 'energy block' also a 'conceptual thought habit' and a 'tension in the body', things like the war in Ukraine can also map to similar phenomena, as you contain all of it all at once.

Just responding to some edits and some thoughts I had regarding multiple bodies since my last reply.

What I've noticed is that after 4th path, the granularity and depth of experience across these bodies is the next refinement. Becoming fully aware of all the ways you and what you're inter-relating to exist and how they exist in relationship to each other is the next step.

Seems legit thanks for posting.

I notice that your initial consultation is donation based but after that it's $444.44 per hour.

Do you only do paid sessions? That's a big red flag to me, sorry for the directness. Why do you charge money for your services? Asking respectfully.

Thanks for the inquiry J W. All enlightenment/mentoring/spiritual advisory sessions are by donation. As a different, separate service, it's $444.44 to receive an energy crystallization session from me and my wife. I charge money for that service for a variety of reasons  

Ok, so the energy transformation is separate from awakening. Like what reasons though... you need the money I guess?

Can I ask what siddhis your wife has? And what car does she drive?

That's not the reason, no. Would you ask a top surgeon in the field to do all of their surgeries for free? We happily offer smaller fees for people who need them. The true reason that the energy work costs $444.44 is that during 'sleep' one night I was taken into the realm of Ganesha, and began experiencing days of meaning as moments. It was one of the most intense experiences of my life, with years condensed into about 5 minutes. During that time, I saw how he was portalling into my experience his blessings and aid through repeating 4's. After further communion w/the deity we came to the recognition of the price we give for that service. You can see a similar process for our $222.22 angelic healing, which acts as a portal into angelic energies. If you'd like something more graspable by the rationalist materalist mind, we find that charging prices for our services ensures that everyone who purchases them is genuinely open to large transformation, which is the only thing we are interested in. 

May your business model bring about the liberation of all beings 

I am not saying that people shouldn't be allowed to make a living, of course not.  But if you don't need the money, then I think what a Buddha would do is not charge a price that 99.9% of people would never be able to afford (for a service that apparently would be of great benefit to them), regardless of what Ganesha told you to do. 

oh, and Re: the surgeon analogy: do you accept insurance, like a surgeon would? If not I'm not sure the analogy holds ;)

Yep, Did Ganesh tell you where to put the point?
Why not 4.44 $?
Oh yes, Ganesh is the god of wealth...

Surgeons are licensed by the government and before they can practice have to prove that they've completed lengthy training, an internship, and a residency. 
​​​​​​​

Also in other professions, if the professional doesn not do their job properly, they'd face the consequences, either pay back the money or lose their reputation or go to court or whatever, but in this "dharma business", if the teacher doesn't do their job properly, or don't have enough competence and skills, they get their money and reputation, but they (and others) blame the students that were not good students. Such a dirty business.

The market clears at whatever price balances demand with supply. People who can afford (or are desperate enough) to pay $444.44 /hr for energy transformation are likely to be carrying A LOT of negative energy!

There can be imbalances that cause markets to clear at what is clearly an irrational price. 

A shortage of energy workers!

And the power of advertisement! To convince people that they have a certain "need" while they don't, and create demand, and then sell "dharma", with  taking no responsibility afterward!

Thank you Edward. It is.

As mentioned before, we do the sessions by donation if people can't afford it.

Yes, they did.

This is not a dharma business. It's similar to a massage from an experienced, tuned in and specialist massage therapist offering a revolutionary treatment. We do dharma work by donation. Also would not consider people who are receiving the energetic crystallization service to be 'students'. It's our energy directly working on your energy, we aren't exchanging words. We're doing work inside of you with very little work on your part, it's not a dialogue unfolding more knowledge. 

The people receiving this service are often beautiful beings on the edge of a large transformation that we have the joy to tip them over into.

The people receiving our service often feel that they could give more.

We don't advertise and specifically design our energetic field as to only provide this service to people who are receptive and who it would be beneficial for. 

I've done a few sessions with an energy healer and it was very beneficial. They had a specialized skillset and experience (ability to locate and work with traumas). If they are willing to work for donations with people who can't afford it, and subsidize that by charging more to those who can, it seems fair.

Thanks George. This is exactly what's occurring.

I'm curious about how this works. The healer I worked with was over zoom and we exchanged words. It started with standard narrative and she quickly guided it into subconscious material, including entities (which came from me), eventually ending up as me having a purely energetic experience (releases/transformations of tension in the energy body). Still I felt that the words were an important part of the process, to set the context and provide entryways into the subconscious and energetic domains. She was clearly visualizing my experience for herself and holding the space, making sure I stayed on track (not getting lost in rational/defensive content) and occasionally providing suggestions (some of which were spot on, others didn't resonate). But overall I had the sense she was teaching me how to work with my own energy body by guiding my awareness, rather than working on me without my awareness of what was going on. (Of course if you take a not-self perspective then it's all just awareness of causal chains of experience, without a division between self and other. I'm just speaking in relative terms here!) Now I have that increased awareness, it's a skill I can use by myself for further self-healing and can detect in others to a some extent. The words/narrative are much less important to me now that I have more direct access to/awareness of the energy body, still it's hard to imagine it having been so effective without any exchange of words.

I once visited a reiki healer in person. We chatted for 20 minutes, setting the context. I lay on her table with eyes closed and she passed her hands around my body without touching. I knew she was doing it because of the sounds she made and occasionally opening my eyes. I can't say that I felt any direct energetic sensations from her, it was more like an all over "internally generated" body feeling which came from my knowing that I was being "massaged with her attention". Once I was in a deep relaxed state, she recalled something I must have mentioned about my mother in the initial chat, and I felt a smallish energetic shift. Clearly I was in a receptive state due to the relaxation and her steady presence, but again the initial verbal context was an essential part of the process. It wasn't a major persistent shift, nothing like the healing and awareness I developed conversing back and forth with the healer over zoom where I was effectively being taught how to heal myself.

I guess my question is - what's the minimum amount of context & communication (subtle verbal & visual cues) that you need to do this kind of work? Even the initial communication with the client reveals significant information (their questions, concerns etc.). And of course their willingness to pay a personally significant amount of money also strengthens commitment/intention. If you had never communicated with someone before and they didn't know what was going on, would you still be able to work on them without touching if they were blindfolded and wearing ear plugs? I'm guessing that the client's intention and awareness of entering into a healing space, and surrendering to a subconscious/non-rational process, is a major ingredient (which you say yourself that the client should be "open to large transformation").

Are you aware of some mechanic of energetic communication which functions independently of any other sensory information? I know that some animals have electroreceptors to detect others, maybe there's some kind of weak version of that in humans. Or maybe the skin can detect subtle changes in temperature and air pressure as you move your hands around close to the body? I'm genuinely curious, thanks ...
   

I'm interested in the answer as well, but while waiting for it, I'll just say that once in Turkey I met a regular massage therapy salesman that would advertise the massage therapy at the hotel where we were staying by way of very swiftly just sweeping his hands a few inches from the actual body and pinpointing exactly where any pain would be located. He seemed to be always right. He was right about me and the people I was there with, exactly, and it only took a few seconds with minimal chatting. We booked the massage. Unfortunately, he wasn't the one doing the actual massage, but it was still great. Even I can sense blockages like that now and then, and sometimes shift them, but I haven't practiced it so it's hardly reliable. I have no idea how it works, but when it works, it's tangible. And all empty of course. 

I can imagine how that might work. Sometimes I get a sense of where someone has a pain or issue from their posture or the way they move. But if you can't communicate that to the person in words, or touch the affected area, then it seems more tricky. If the client can see the healer waving their hands near the area then that could conceivably draw their attention to it for "self healing". But I've seen videos of people having this done to them face down where they can't even see the healer! Of course there's still non-verbal sounds, temperature, air pressure, smell ... and client expectation.

Just to clarify, when I'm tuned into energy (like a light second jhana) then everything in my sense field has an energetic quality. I can "feel" sounds in the body and the appearance of people or objects in my visual field also has an energetic physical feel. But I assume this is an artefact of the way my mind models the environment and others when it's hyper aware of physical energy. Sometimes my model of someone's energetic state might match their own model, sometimes it doesn't. I assume that a healer just has a lot more skill and experience in predicting other people's energetic state, but a significant amount of that is based on other sensory signals. It would be interesting to know how much of the communication, if any, happens on a purely energetic channel independent of the other senses. (Of course from a solipsistic perspective mind is only ever juggling models of self and other, and "everything is energy" in that state, but from a practical perspective sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't!)

Thanks George, this is an excellent question, and gets to the heart of how magic works. Meaning is gravity, and words generate gravity. However, when attuned to energy, you're able to create gravity without words, through hand gestures and even just intention. I have no idea about the scientific side of it, but I sense that the electromagnetic field has some pointers. 

To be very direct with you, energy is its own aspect of reality that most of humanity simply has poor senses of. To me, energy is as granular, specific and independent as the other sense doors. 

The question about how and to what extent manifestations of reality become shared is interesting. 

My own limited experience (from my own very non-professional dabbling) is that sensing energy is not the same thing as sensations through specific sense doors. I wouldn't (at this point in my development, which is a huge caveat) say that it is independent either, though, for two reasons. This has to do with what connotations "independent" has for me, and I don't really think you meant it that way, Hanjo; I suspect we might be in agreement, while of course your understanding is much more nuanced than the nuances I'll try to wrap my head around here. It might also be the case that I'm totally off base, again of course, and if so, I'd love to learn something.

1) For me there seems to be a gliding scale between experiencing energies and experiencing reality from specific sense doors, and it makes sense to me to see it as something that can precede sensory input divided into neat boxes. Thus it could be some kind of pre-processing, at least parts of it. On the other hand, this leads me to an interesting question to explore: there could very well be some other box where the pre-processing that I can access could develop into something more distinct. Maybe that's what professional healers (real ones, not everyone with a business) do. That's interesting! It makes me think of what Carlos Castaneda describes in his book as shifting the assemblage point into a new position. It seems to me that there is on the one hand an aspect of deconstructing perception (or whatever we want to call it; not the specific definition of perception as in the chain of dependent origination the Buddhadharma, but something broader than that). For me to access energies, I need break free from what Castaneda would call a fixed position of the assemblage point that makes us see the consensual world clearly. Things dissolve. But there's also the possibility of letting the assemblage point stabilize temporarily in another position, which makes other perceptions accessable, or even other worlds. That's as aspect of construction (note: when I say that something is constructed, I do not mean that it's fake, just that there has been creation). The danger brought up in his books is that it makes those new perceptions seem solid. He doesn't talk about energy healing in relationship to this at all, as far as I'm aware, but other aspects. Also, I know that the authenticity of those teachings are very much questioned. I still find the conceptualization inspiring, and it overlaps quite a bit with some Tibetan teachings. I'm curious about developing new ways of perceiving reality. I hope and believe that it's possible to do so while still seeing the emptiness of what manifests. My approach to it is that seeing that experience can be "sliced and diced" in many different ways could be a path to seeing the emptiness together with its inherent aliveness. How does this resonate with the two of you? And others who are interested, of course.

2) Related to what I have already tried to talk about, I personally don't believe that there is one true model of the energy body (or whatever label is best for what we are talking about). I have done some personal dabbling in several different interpretations of chakras, for instance, and they have all worked. I have perceived chakras in different locations and in different ways depending on from what model I have been operating - AND working with them has had real effects. So I'd say that the chakras do "exist", but they are context dependent. I'd also say that they are constructed - which again does not mean that they are fake. I see them as an expression of how the aliveness inherent to emptiness manifests into and in experience. The point I'm trying to get at here is that there's an element of construction in how we can sense energies, and that construction probably can't be isolated from how we make sense of the world with our senses. I'd say that there's an element of construction in all experience and that it's all connected, so it's not like the sense are more objective, to be clear. I don't think that the sense doors are independent from each other either. So I could as well say "Yes, it's as independent from the senses as the senses are from each other."

Does this make any sense at all? 

The folding and unfolding and refolding of meaning as it moves across people is certainly how reality shifts and moves, redirecting you from consensus to other realities. The precision of how you can do this, and the flexibility (and safety!) of your reality is certainly a benchmark for the power of your magical practice. The stage where your energetic awareness is bound to your senses in some way, and you're interpreting it as if through a filter, where things are somewhat hazy, was a stage that I went through. The thing that I have now is deeply grounded in specifics. I can move it across into other senses if I incline towards that, perceiving complex structures, but this very direct sense of energy does not need to be put into other senses to be used. The kind of reality shifting as to make you more aware of things like energy feels somewhat distinct from this very stabilized experience of energy awareness as another sense door.​​​​​​​
Energy is as constructed, as engineered, as any other sense fmpv. The insight that chakras work as different systems is powerful and useful. 

Cool. Thanks! 

I think I need a translation because there are so many uses of "it" in the explanation that seem to refer alternatively to meaning and then to energy. Can't track with that. 

Maybe an imprecision that's useful?

^ Here "it" is meaning

After this "it" is your energetic awareness and energy:

Thanks for your comment as well Linda. The spaces of understanding how the universe works, moving with meaning gravity and using magic as a fundamental aspect of your experience are difficult concepts to grasp. I've noticed generally, the more fundamental something is, the harder it is to know fully.