Hello,

I'm a novice meditator (working on TMI level 4). I have a free month in September but can't attend an organised retreat; instead, I'm planning to do a solo retreat. I was thinking 10 days hard practice - 10/12 hours a day - to get some momentum up, followed by 20 or so lighter days - maybe 3 hours a day - to keep things moving (a full month of retreat is not completely out of the question, though I do find this thought a little daunting).

I have a couple of questions about how best to organise this 10 day retreat:

1) Would you recommend simply going hard at TMI or throwing in some other techniques - body scanning / noting / meta - (there will be a certain amount of mixing up anyway as I will be doing walking meditation to break up the sits). I recognise that there is probably no strictly correct or incorrect answer to this question, but I'd appreciate any thoughts.  

2) Having been on 1 retreat, and looked at the schedule for a number of others, I've noticed that a lot of (most?) retreats seem to go in for some kind of low-key sleep deprivation (6ish hours a night). Most of my own best daily sits tend to occur when I'm well rested (8+ hours); however, I assume there's a reason why sleep time is limited on retreats?? 

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Any more general advice from anyone who has sat solo retreats would also be greatly appreciated

Jamys                          

What're you looking to get out of the retreat?

Cheers for your reply,

​​​​​​​Well, on the most specific front, I'd like to get past TMI level 4 during this retreat as I've been working on it for quite some time now, with only very intermittent success. So in this sense, I suppose my question is whether the best way to progress in TMI is by just doing TMI, or whether there is anything I can throw in to help nudge things along.

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Looking at things more broadly, however, my ultimate goal is insight, so I suppose anything that fires me along that path would be a good thing regardless of how it relates to Culadasa’s framework.

That said, I’ve heard TMI described as a relatively ‘safe’ route (less likely to result in extreme experiences than certain other techniques); so, I guess, another question would be whether you think it’s ok for a relatively inexperienced meditator like myself to use high doses of meditation techniques more prone to causing extreme results (rapid noting / kasina for example) on an unsupported solo retreat; or whether you'd recommend sticking to the steadier but safer territory of TMI.

For what it's worth (which is not a great deal!) my own insticts are that a combination of techniques might be the way to go, specifically TMI level 4 > 5, with a few hours of Mahasi style noting and the odd bit of meta thrown in too.  
Thanks   
 

I don't have much experience with TMI so I can't specifically speak to that, but I'm sure if you practice in that system intensively for a month you will improve.  ;)

Your schedule sounds good, and one of the benefits of doing your own retreat is that you can be flexible and change what you're doing if needed.  Similarly for sleep - if you know you do better with 8 hrs of sleep, no need to change it up.  The secret in retreat practice isn't any special sleep deprivation recipe, but the intensity and continuity of the practice.  It may also be the case that after a certain period of intensive practice on retreat, you start to need less sleep, although YMMV.

Re: TMI as a safe route vs incorporating other techniques - when people get into "dangerous territory", it is probably often the result of pushing too hard for too long.  A retreat like Goenka's - two weeks of intensive vipassana, often with beginning meditators - is basically asking for it to some degree.  Vipassana practice can have more of a mentally 'busy' feel to it, and so I can see how that practice in particular could potentially cause more psychological upheaval than a more calming shamatha approach. 

That said, having issues from overdoing it in practice is really less about the specific practice, and more about not knowing when to back off and take a break.  If you are experiencing bizzare / uncomfortable mental phenomena, or practice is starting to freak you out in some way or seriously hype you up, listen to your better judgement and take a breather. 

So no red flags for me with your approach of practicing a variety of shamatha, metta, vipassana - pragmatic dharma is all about experimenting with different techniques to find your own personal sweet spot.  As long as you maintain a balanced approach and don't go seriously overboard, it sounds like a great plan.

What's the most you've ever meditated in a day? 

Thanks for that, very helpful.

Yeah, so I'll probably try a couple of other techniques alongside those described in TMI.

I did a 7 day retreat a few months back, I think that was about 10 hours a day. So I do have some small experience of relatively high dose sitting. 

Hey, read this from piece from Daniel Ingram recently on solo retreats, thought I'd share:

"Solo Practice Schedule:
I cannot express in words how great it is to read Tarin's excellent advice (on how to schedule a solo retreat): (Tarin's Keep routines simple. Keep food simple. Be strict with yourself. Stay on schedule. Stay focused and disciplined. Do not slack. Too much effort is better than too little effort in almost all cases. Keep going no matter what. If you find yourself not on track, get back on it immediately, there is no time to waste. Note discouragement rather than taking it to heart. Take reality head-on. Develop an independent attitude and do whatever it takes.
Here's an example schedule:
4.30 awaken5.00 walk6.00 sit7.00 breakfast7.30 walk8.00 sit9.00 walk10.00 sit11.00 walk12.00 lunch, shower, rest, sit, etc13.00 walk14.00 sit15.00 walk16.00 sit17.00 walk18.00 sit19.00 walk20.00 sit21.00 walk22.00 sit22.30 recline
And an example set of reminders to have stuck on the wall:
1) don't indulge in your crap!2) when in doubt or struggling: note/hit and accept pain.3) if you have a question, the answer is in the three characteristics.4) be mindful during transitions between activities.5) analysis is not the same as practice.6) practice at all times when awake.7) stick to the schedule!8) remember how precious these moments are and how much the dark night sucks.9) when alone, practice just as hard; this is for you."


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Overall, I'd say trust the techniques you have, and don't be afraid to play with others if it feels right. Just commit and give a full send to the constant, penetrating awareness of your sensate experience, things will unfold for the good. I think anywhere between 6-8 hours of sleep is fine. Listen to your body if you need more or less. And a caveat - don't just go to bed because you are bored of practicing. Wait until a legitmate tiredness kicks in.

I like your idea of 10 days on, and then the next 3 weeks can be a bit softer (3 hours a day). Also, I'd keep the prospect open of continuing longer for the intensive part of it if it feels right. Or, to take a few days or a week break, and then get back into the retreat schedule again. You'll know what is right for your body and mind when the time comes.

That said, you might hit a hard point like re-observation (Nana / insight stage 10) which can be awfully unpleasant, but it would be best to face and it move through it, or at the least gain experience in it. It may feel like your meditation is all-wrong, you have little motivation to practice, but listening to these cues might just be backing down from the beast you need to slay, compared to real physical/mental needs that need to be respected.

All this to say, in the end, you will know what you need to do. And shucks, if you make a mistake, you will be better prepared the next time. It seems you have enough knowledge and practice at this expeirence to dive in. I am confident you'll have a powerful time and gain great insight. 

Thanks Gunnar, that helps I'm a pretty organised person so I'll have a thorough timetable for my retreat and stick to it unless it needs tinkering for unforeseen practical reasons.     

All great advice, cheers; aye, I'll keep my options open; I find the idea of more than 10 days in solo reatreat a bit intimidating right now, but who knows once I get into it! Thanks again  

I wouldn't recommend starting with a new technique different from your current daily one on an intensive retreat.  Maybe you could throw in some appendix or interlude practices from TMI just to be somewhat consistent but also have some variation .

Summary: Go hard!  Go harder than hard!  Continue going extremely hard!  Profit!??  ;)

This was perhaps a paradigm of pragmatic practice at the time, and definately an attitude I used to subscribe to.  It may be an effective meditation strategy for some, but with the obvious risks of burnout and frazzling yourself unnecessarily. 

Is it necessary to go extremely hard to produce insight?  Honestly it seems healthier to chill a little bit and take the occasional breather.  The path is long and better lends itself to a marathon effort rather than a sprint - to each their own of course. 

Thanks, I won't try anything completely new and will keep the vast majority of my sitting sessions to techniques covered in TMI. That said, I'll probably schedule a daily mindful hike into the retreat too (I get a bit itsy without exercise) and was thinking of using this time for some 'hearing', 'seeing', 'feeling' (Shinzen Young?) style noting -I've tried this before when hiking / running.

I've read Practical Insight Meditation by Mahasi Sayadaw but have never practiced the method; I thought this might be a good technique to try during the transition / cooking / eating / showering times throughout the day, to keep my mind from wandering.   

Aha, aye thanks, I'll try and find that sweet spot between indolence and frazzle.   

I did that combo for a time actually. Noting off cushion & tmi on cushion. It allowed me to stay between stage 4 to 6 , whereas without the noting I would sometimes dip to stage 2 or 3.

the specific type of noting I found helpful for maintaining off cushion concentration was monitoring for & noting thoughts.

Aye, I've been languishing in stage 4 for a good few months now. Back in November I managed 4 straight days (hour long sits) during which I'm pretty sure I met the criteria to move on to stage 5; however, since that time I've gone weeks on end barely being able to hold my attention on the breath for a minute. This is part of the reason I'd like to do an intensive retreat, and possibly throw in some alternative techniques.

I have a couple of working theories as to why my progress has been somewhat stunted of late (which may or may not be true):

a) Over recent months I have become a lot better at refraining from getting irked and judging myself when my mind wanders. This, I'm told, is a step in the right direction long term; however, I have a sneaking suspicion that the stick of this judgement may have been playing a fairly significant role in keeping my attention where it was meant to be back in November, whereas the carrot is yet to develop into such a potent tool.

b) For whatever reason, I've been feeling a bit of anxiety when sitting of late. I've been dealing with this by monitoring my emotional space with awareness (so I can let go of any anxiety before it takes a hold), while keeping my attention on the breath. I suppose this could be thought of as a type of mindfulness training in itself; however, it seems to be much harder to monitor thought-space with awareness whilst at the same time keeping an eye on emotional-space.               

I appreciate that TMI is an incredibly detailed and user friendly step-by-step guide to progression in meditation, but I also question the wisdom of defining progress solely by the strength of attention on one particular object.  If you consider other models, such as the progress of insight, variations in strength of attention can vary in a non-linear manner, as one progresses on the path.  The classic example would be reobservation, in which, paradoxically, everything as far as attention and awareness basically goes to shit despite the fact that one has now reached the stage directly below equanimity.  

Noah, I have seen you define the POI as "where you're at", vs TMI as "what you can do", I'm curious if you have thoughts on the intersection of these two systems as far as non-linear progression.