My mind is permanently not attached to brain anymore - fruition or shamata?

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Happy Like Me, modified 1 Year ago at 10/12/22 3:27 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 10/12/22 3:26 AM

My mind is permanently not attached to brain anymore - fruition or shamata?

Posts: 24 Join Date: 9/1/22 Recent Posts
Hi all, I have been doing Shamata and have been practicing the formless realms and have been in the form realm.
I have attained the bliss body, which is really incredible and is (or seems to be) permanent.
However it’s getting really difficult for me to obtain information about these higher stages of “Taming the elephant”.

So something happened during meditation and it seems permanent off the cushion.

I will explain what it feels like:

My mind is not attached to my brain anymore meaning my mind can be everywhere. I was walking on the street and mind was about 3 meters outside of my body an a lady walked right trough it l.o.l. Furthermore I can literally stop thinking and just do.
Not for one second but just permanently.  Everything is incredibly spacious and light - infinite really. And I feel like a 1000 kilo of life’s weight got offloaded. The world just seems different. There is a sense of peace and joy. But I also seem to be able to tap into people’s suffering and feel so much compassion. It just makes me cry. Furthermore, there seems a break on thinking about the past or future. It's reversed of what I was like before.
I used to live in the past and future and now it's only now. Then there's all the energy stuff and body bliss....I can directly touch music with the bliss body- no clue how it works but just works.

Is this Shamata or Fruition?
 
Adi Vader, modified 1 Year ago at 10/12/22 4:45 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 10/12/22 4:45 AM

RE: My mind is permanently not attached to brain anymore - fruition or sham

Posts: 268 Join Date: 6/29/20 Recent Posts
Concentration practice is freaky particularly when the mind isnt used to deeper and deeper states of samadhi.

Strange events, perceptual distortions, hallucinations, and deep entanglement of the citta - the heart mind - affective movement regards the freaky phenomena, is par for the course.

Insight with a capital 'I' is always a cognitive event. You 'know' stuff, your earlier misinformed mental models are corrected. You are relatively less ignorant regarding how conscious experience is assembled. You are better informed about how perception and apperception interact. This is all experiential - first person subjective experience. Any associated phenomenology that accompanies insight, any perceptual changes or WOW moments are impermanent and mere amusements if not straight up distractions or corruptions of the Insight accruing process.

Hope this provides a perspective for you to consider

P.S . Thoroughly enjoy the freaky stuff, the good freaky stuff as long as it lasts, then let it go emoticon
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Jonas E, modified 1 Year ago at 10/12/22 9:03 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 10/12/22 9:02 AM

P.S . Thoroughly enjoy the freaky stuff, the good freaky stuff as long as i

Posts: 93 Join Date: 2/28/15 Recent Posts
It got me to think of; that I been verry attached to cool experiences in the past. Like I tend to think that those experiences are telling me Im deeper in spiritual growth. But I think there's so many dimentions of it that it allways comes in a new way that has not been before and also teach me something new. So what has been doesn't matter anything now.
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Jonas E, modified 1 Year ago at 10/12/22 9:13 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 10/12/22 9:13 AM

RE: My mind is permanently not attached to brain anymore - fruition or sham

Posts: 93 Join Date: 2/28/15 Recent Posts
Are you attached to "the now"? Or can you let go completely to change? Are you passionated about your new abilities?

To me it sounds like that you have doubt. Why are you doubting? Who are doubting?
George S, modified 1 Year ago at 10/12/22 11:51 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 10/12/22 11:50 AM

RE: My mind is permanently not attached to brain anymore - fruition or sham

Posts: 2722 Join Date: 2/26/19 Recent Posts
My mind is not attached to my brain anymore meaning my mind can be everywhere.
This is basically correct. The mind is constantly fabricating sense of self, space and location on the fly. All sorts of weird and wonderful variations are possible. No state is permanent, the intensity will probaby fade, but with practice anything you once experienced can be re-created at will (plus there's always new stuff you haven't even dreamed of yet)
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Happy Like Me, modified 1 Year ago at 10/12/22 5:37 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 10/12/22 5:36 PM

RE: My mind is permanently not attached to brain anymore - fruition or sham

Posts: 24 Join Date: 9/1/22 Recent Posts
@ Adi, Wel I may have answered my own question by hitting the send button of my post, I kind of mildly freaked out about the fruition thing so sure it's not that. I will wait longer next time before I post a question ;) Thank you for your information and yes I will definitely enjoy it and then let it go when it's time to move on.<br /> 
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Happy Like Me, modified 1 Year ago at 10/12/22 6:10 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 10/12/22 6:04 PM

RE: My mind is permanently not attached to brain anymore - fruition or sham

Posts: 24 Join Date: 9/1/22 Recent Posts
@yujo
AHA… the attachment question. If I tell you: ‘Do NOT to think of pink elephants. Whatever you do, don’t think of pink elephants. Do NOT think of pink elephants with big sunglasses and fluffy pink coats and shiny pink leggings. Do not think of pink elephants. Seriously! Stop! Don’t think of pink elephants. Have you stopped thinking of pink elephants yet? You know, the ones in the coats and the leggings – the pink ones?
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To be honest I find the attachment question a bit of a nuisance. Are you attached to not being attached? How many times have I&nbsp; read and heard… be careful of the piti because you’ll get attached. Don’t do Shamata or you’ll get attached. What is attachment? Doesn’t that too arise and pass away. Because it will when it's use is worn out and when you're fully ready to let go.<br /><br />I started meditating 8 months ago and I have been in and out of therapy for the past 10 years. I was in so much pain that I became crippled last year, my doctor thought I had diabetes. I was a walking list of disorders; pills for sleeping, pills for concentrating, pills for anxiety, pills for my skin, pills for pain etc. I was so attached to these pills, couldn't do without them!!! Now I don’t need them anymore, my body feels blissful and as light as feather every day! So yes, I am deeply, fully and utterly attached to this process.&nbsp; I try to be mindful as much as possible therefore and be in the here and now and I try to practice that with devotion. What I am most attached to is my breath; for it is a magic wand! Furthermore I am deeply grateful for all these amazing experiences and miracles!!&nbsp; Do I enjoy it? Hell yeah! Even if I see myself as a rotting corpse with maggots eating away my eyes - it's never as bad as my life was.&nbsp; Does my ego bloat sometimes? Yes, of course… but maybe I needed that for that moment and that too shall pass.
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I never got into meditation to gain enlightenment. Have you ever heard of the objective paradox? If your objective is too big it will fail.<br />My goal was to train my mind to be less f**ked up and I thought Shamata and yoga was the best way. And I’m absolutely flabbergasted that I’ve come this far and what it’s done for me. I actually seem to have some kind of emotional filter now! 10 years of therapy didn't do that for me! Furthermore it’s not me in the driver-seat but the process (nature or whatever it) is. I just go with whatever comes and either completely and utterly surrender or try to do my best to figure out what to do with what is presented to me. And it seems that there is some insight and a tool for working out stuff in each of these abilities you gain - (for me they are like tools to help further progress along the path)
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From my perspective the meditation process seems to be very similar to the process of making art. You have an idea that comes out of nowhere then ask questions, experiment, analyze, create, fail succeed, build and sometimes tear it all down and start over - always leaving room for serendipity and trusting the process!
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Happy Like Me, modified 1 Year ago at 10/12/22 6:34 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 10/12/22 6:30 PM

RE: My mind is permanently not attached to brain anymore - fruition or sham

Posts: 24 Join Date: 9/1/22 Recent Posts
George: "with practice anything you once experienced can be re-created at will". Yes I'm starting to notice that, pretty cool. I can actually create art in meditation and then go make it emoticon

One more question: have any of you been in the form realm? It's the place where you can see aliens, demons, gods, etc. Do you get a weird uncanny feeling too?
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Jim Smith, modified 1 Year ago at 10/14/22 11:44 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 10/14/22 11:34 AM

RE: My mind is permanently not attached to brain anymore - fruition or sham

Posts: 1639 Join Date: 1/17/15 Recent Posts
Happy Like Me
...

Is this Shamata or Fruition?
 


I'm not sure it helps to identify stages with labels.

My opinion is that you should look in your experience, are you suffering? Are you attached to self? Do you experience ill will, conceit, do you understand from experience how practice works to the point you KNOW you are on the right path (doing what will eliminate attachments and aversions), are you attached or averse to things and sensations? These can be subtle so if you think you are beyond attachments also look for subtle effects too.

Measure your progress by your experience of attachments and aversions - by your emotional experience - as you progress those experiences will be more and more subtle or more and more clear in your understanding.  When you observe suffering arise and fade, attachments and aversions arise and fade, you are studying the three characteristics and dependent origination. Your progress here is the most useful way measure of progress. 
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Jim Smith, modified 1 Year ago at 10/14/22 11:57 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 10/14/22 11:51 AM

RE: My mind is permanently not attached to brain anymore - fruition or sham

Posts: 1639 Join Date: 1/17/15 Recent Posts
Happy Like Me
George: "with practice anything you once experienced can be re-created at will". Yes I'm starting to notice that, pretty cool. I can actually create art in meditation and then go make it emoticon

One more question: have any of you been in the form realm? It's the place where you can see aliens, demons, gods, etc. Do you get a weird uncanny feeling too?



I have described my experiences here:
https://sites.google.com/site/chs4o8pt/psi_experience
and here:
http://ncu9nc.blogspot.com/2012/10/what-is-it-like-to-communicate-with.html
and here (aliens):
https://sites.google.com/site/chs4o8pt/mystical_experiences#h.8g4rrvz68zx9

I only had an uncanny feeling once when a suicide victim communicated his mode of death. That kind of feeling is your conscious mind reacting to the experience, it is not a factor of the state in the way that, for example,  rapture is a factor of the first jhana.
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Happy Like Me, modified 1 Year ago at 11/4/22 8:01 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 11/4/22 8:00 AM

RE: My mind is permanently not attached to brain anymore - fruition or sham

Posts: 24 Join Date: 9/1/22 Recent Posts
Hi guys, super sorry to reply so late. It was fruition only not 4th path. I'm waiting to run out this cycle (which is a total roallercoaster) and is almost finished and then see what Is left.  I will let you know then and reply to all the posts.

@ jim: two of your links arn't working, so can't read it all.

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