RE: Right view in the Mahayana teachings

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Oatmilk, modified 1 Year ago at 1/20/23 10:18 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 1/20/23 10:18 AM

Right view in the Mahayana teachings

Posts: 141 Join Date: 7/30/20 Recent Posts
I would like to know if there are people here who are familiar with the Mahayana teachings of Buddhism. I assume that most of the practitioners here are orientated towards the pragmatic approach of the Theravada school. However, if someone could point me to good teachings in the Mahayana school I would appreciate it. I am particularly interested in how right view is seen in the Mahayana tradition and if moral development plays a different role here. 

(:
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Jim Smith, modified 1 Year ago at 1/20/23 10:36 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 1/20/23 10:35 AM

RE: Right view in the Mahayana teachings

Posts: 1639 Join Date: 1/17/15 Recent Posts
Oatmilk
I would like to know if there are people here who are familiar with the Mahayana teachings of Buddhism. I assume that most of the practitioners here are orientated towards the pragmatic approach of the Theravada school. However, if someone could point me to good teachings in the Mahayana school I would appreciate it. I am particularly interested in how right view is seen in the Mahayana tradition and if moral development plays a different role here. 

(:


I took the five precepts at a Zen temple so I am qualified to answer your question.

In my expert opinion, I believe you would be best served by asking your question here:
https://www.dharmawheel.net

My experience with Zen is that answer to everything is: "Just meditate, talking is what got you confused in the first place".
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Oatmilk, modified 1 Year ago at 1/20/23 10:37 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 1/20/23 10:37 AM

RE: Right view in the Mahayana teachings

Posts: 141 Join Date: 7/30/20 Recent Posts
Thank you, Jim! 
shargrol, modified 1 Year ago at 1/20/23 1:16 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 1/20/23 1:16 PM

RE: Right view in the Mahayana teachings

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i'm not sure, but i bet you would find this interesting/provocative: Vividness | Vividness
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Oatmilk, modified 1 Year ago at 1/21/23 4:30 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 1/21/23 4:30 AM

RE: Right view in the Mahayana teachings

Posts: 141 Join Date: 7/30/20 Recent Posts
Thank you Shargrol, I am reading through it and like it a lot. 
T DC, modified 1 Year ago at 1/21/23 7:27 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 1/21/23 7:27 PM

RE: Right view in the Mahayana teachings

Posts: 516 Join Date: 9/29/11 Recent Posts
The Mahayana is an incredibly broad classification, including pretty much every Buddhist tradition outside Theravada (Zen, the majority of Tibetan Buddhism, more classical Mahayana traditions such as Madhyamaka, etc).  Exploring right view via such traditions that interest you might be a better way to approach it than simply looking at the Mahayana generally.  Kind of like asking "what is the flavor of every single fruit that is not a banana?"  Ah, sweet-ish, but also variable, maybe pick one?   ;)

That said, generally speaking, Mahayana teachings stem from the Buddha's Second Turning, which introduces the concept of emptiness, and focuses on looking beyond conceptual meaning to penetrate deeper experiential spiritual truths. As far as moral development, there is a focus on developing universal compassion, exemplified in the Boddhisatva ideal - attaining enlightenment for the benefit of all beings. 

Moral training is actually a major part of it, and gets a bit more nuanced from the more simplistic view of the 5 precepts.  I am most familiar with the Tibetan Buddhist approach to the Mahayana via the Lojong (mind training) slogans, which are basically a helpful list of attitudes of mind to cultivate to help actualize the 6 paramitas (enlightened qualities) - generosity, dicipline, patience, exertion, meditation, and wisdom.  Lojong can be a very helpful, detailed, and extensive support for developing "right view" depending on what you're looking for and where you're at with your practice.
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Oatmilk, modified 1 Year ago at 1/22/23 4:25 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 1/22/23 4:14 AM

RE: Right view in the Mahayana teachings

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Thank you, TD C - that was very helpful. It's fascinating how much there is still to explore. I read the Heart Sutra by Red Pine and that really opened my eyes but aside from that I do not know anything about the Mahayana.

Edit: Thank you for pointing me to Lojong - it's something that I'll explore further. 
shargrol, modified 1 Year ago at 1/22/23 5:27 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 1/22/23 5:27 AM

RE: Right view in the Mahayana teachings

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Jim Smith, modified 1 Year ago at 1/22/23 1:13 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 1/22/23 12:41 PM

RE: Right view in the Mahayana teachings

Posts: 1639 Join Date: 1/17/15 Recent Posts
Oatmilk
...
It's fascinating how much there is still to explore. I read the Heart Sutra by Red Pine and that really opened my eyes but aside from that I do not know anything about the Mahayana.
.... 

One thing to keep in mind when you study various philosophies is that sometimes people develop an attachment to one point of view and they might think anything different is necessarily wrong, but just because something is different, doesn't meant it's necessarily right or wrong or better or worse. One example is the Mahayana sutras some of which the authorship is not agreed upon, that doesn't means they're wrong, or not as good. You have to decide based on the merits of the ideas not their source. It's the same with the commentaries that a lot of Theravada accept which are different from the Pali canon - traditional acceptance doesn't mean that they are necessarily right or better, and differences from the Pali canon don't mean they are necessarily wrong or not as good. You have to decide based on the merits of the ideas not their source.

Personally, I am somewhat skeptical that a lot of the teachings that are outside the Pali canon are really teaching of the Buddha, but I am open on whether they might be better or more advanced etc. Even non-Buddhist philosophies, yoga or anything else, could be better or more advanced. One thing the diversity of ideas has influenced in me is my belief that awakening or enlightenment and the path to it is very personal - they are not necessarily the same for different teachers - so you have to look at the teacher, does he demonstrate through his words and actions what you are looking for? If not then you should not expect his teachings to help you find what you are seeking.  You should also consider if you are looking for a system of practice that will change you subjectively (in how you feel) and or objectively (in how you behave).  When you read someone who claims their system is faster and more direct (a lot of different systems make this claim) you have to understand what the effect that they are producing is compared to the "slower" "indirect" systems they claim to be superior to - it is not necessarily the same. That is a further complication, different systems could be better or worse but at something different. One system might get you awakened faster but to a different definition of awakening.

One of the biggest flaws in Buddhism in my opinion is that so many of the people who are thought to be enlightened don't really act as if they are free from identity view. To me that suggests they are deluded, the feel like they are free from identity view but they are not really free from it. But I don't know what is possible, my expectation might be unrealistic. But that is why I like the fetter model of awakening, it might be unrealistic or impossible to achieve but it is based in somewhat objective phenomena - you can observe someone and tell if they are acting like they are free from identity view, ill will and conceit because they will be selfless, compassionate, and humble.

Also beware of people who won't give a straight answer to a plain question. If they are evasive they are hiding something and you can't trust them. 

If a practice has a good effect feel free to use it whether or not it is "Buddhist", or from yoga, or wester psychology. Enlightenment isn't one thing defined by Buddhists (there are even differences among Theravadans) it is, ironically, personal. 
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Oatmilk, modified 1 Year ago at 2/4/23 4:39 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 2/4/23 4:39 PM

RE: Right view in the Mahayana teachings

Posts: 141 Join Date: 7/30/20 Recent Posts
Been listening to it for a few day's now and am really enjoying it. It's been awhile since listening to Dharmatalks, listening to it over and over again really does something that I completely ignored over the past two years. 

Thanks @shargrol
shargrol, modified 1 Year ago at 2/5/23 5:04 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 2/5/23 5:04 PM

RE: Right view in the Mahayana teachings

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very cool

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