DN motivation issues

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N A, modified 12 Years ago at 12/19/11 6:06 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 12/19/11 6:06 PM

DN motivation issues

Posts: 157 Join Date: 7/10/11 Recent Posts
I can't get any motivation to practice. In the beginning of November I went to a Goenka retreat and got to A&P (body sensations breaking up into vibrations, caffeine-like high, otherwise nothing special). Now life feels pointless, I'm doubting everything, feeling stuck, trying in vain to find some direction or purpose, considering drastic lifestyle changes (quitting my job and going to music school)... and also I lost all motivation and stopped practicing. I'm vaguely aware that dark night is supposed to be just like this, but all genuine interest in meditation is gone.

I suppose I feel like any normal person would if he were told that his problems would go away with daily meditation - he'd just laugh at it and ignore the suggestion. Meditation is boring and unpleasant and feels like a waste of time, and when I try it I can't finish timed sessions. Unlike some other posters here, who have increased resolve in the DN to end their suffering etc, I'm just doubting the whole progress of insight idea too much to do any actual work towards it. It feels like a toy that I lost interest in. So boring. I'm sick and tired of dharma literature, and of DhO, and definitely of sitting on a cushion.

Any advice? I haven't practiced in a while now. I tried sitting for half an hour today, feels exactly like when I first started, i.e. nothing special, average mindfulness, no vibrations or anything fancy like that.
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Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem, modified 12 Years ago at 12/19/11 6:13 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 12/19/11 6:13 PM

RE: DN motivation issues

Posts: 2227 Join Date: 10/27/10 Recent Posts
N A:
Any advice?


Isn't it kinda fascinating how you can sit down and be still and try to observe stuff and all of a sudden get remarkably pissed off and bored? Why does that happen? One would naively think that one could just sit down and be still and - be still! What's the disconnect there? (I mean this as a question to be investigated when one is sitting down and trying to be still.)
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N A, modified 12 Years ago at 12/19/11 7:01 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 12/19/11 7:01 PM

RE: DN motivation issues

Posts: 157 Join Date: 7/10/11 Recent Posts
Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem:
N A:
Any advice?


Isn't it kinda fascinating how you can sit down and be still and try to observe stuff and all of a sudden get remarkably pissed off and bored? Why does that happen? One would naively think that one could just sit down and be still and - be still! What's the disconnect there? (I mean this as a question to be investigated when one is sitting down and trying to be still.)

Nope... not fascinating at all emoticon The brain just does what brains do. I don't expect some part of the brain to have complete control over the rest of it - that's a bit too naive after getting comfortable with anatta. Besides, every meditation session ever (well, I dunno about you post-path people) involves some amount of dealing with mental chatter, i.e. a similarly suspicious lack of control over what naively seems like part of self.
So, not sure what you want me to do here. Thanks anyway for the suggestion. I do try to observe boredom and irritation and the desire to get up while meditating. My real problem is not having the motivation to meditate at all.
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Jane Laurel Carrington, modified 12 Years ago at 12/19/11 7:40 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 12/19/11 7:40 PM

RE: DN motivation issues

Posts: 196 Join Date: 12/29/10 Recent Posts
How about ramping up the off-cushion practice, then? Taking out a few minutes here and there to locate yourself in your body, do a mindfulness check, maybe every hour on the hour might be a good approach. Or do noting practice in specific situations--walking down the hall, driving a car, riding on a bus, going to the bathroom--let such moments be a trigger to note sensations. I'm experimenting with more ways to incorporate such off-cushion techniques, because in some ways I'm like you; my on-cushion meditation is frequently unpleasant or ho-hum these days. My main motivation, however, is the extreme discomfort I feel with anxiety or misery as I deal with the Dark Night. That and my age; I don't have a whole lot of years to waste getting stuck. Good luck!
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Nikolai , modified 12 Years ago at 12/19/11 7:51 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 12/19/11 7:51 PM

RE: DN motivation issues

Posts: 1677 Join Date: 1/23/10 Recent Posts
N A:
Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem:
N A:
Any advice?


Isn't it kinda fascinating how you can sit down and be still and try to observe stuff and all of a sudden get remarkably pissed off and bored? Why does that happen? One would naively think that one could just sit down and be still and - be still! What's the disconnect there? (I mean this as a question to be investigated when one is sitting down and trying to be still.)

Nope... not fascinating at all emoticon The brain just does what brains do. I don't expect some part of the brain to have complete control over the rest of it - that's a bit too naive after getting comfortable with anatta. Besides, every meditation session ever (well, I dunno about you post-path people) involves some amount of dealing with mental chatter, i.e. a similarly suspicious lack of control over what naively seems like part of self.
So, not sure what you want me to do here. Thanks anyway for the suggestion. I do try to observe boredom and irritation and the desire to get up while meditating. My real problem is not having the motivation to meditate at all.


A similar period occured for me which lasted for on and off 3 years till I was so sick of it I pulled my finger out and kept at it. Motivation is a mindset and one can learn to manipulate and change mindsets/moods/beliefs at will. Maybe you need a few years of no motivation and continuing cycling through dukkha nana territory before you also are able to change your mindset.

Nick
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Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem, modified 12 Years ago at 12/19/11 7:58 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 12/19/11 7:58 PM

RE: DN motivation issues

Posts: 2227 Join Date: 10/27/10 Recent Posts
N A:
My real problem is not having the motivation to meditate at all.

What about these things?
  • Now life feels pointless,
  • I'm doubting everything,
  • feeling stuck,
  • trying in vain to find some direction or purpose,
  • considering drastic lifestyle changes (quitting my job and going to music school)...
  • and also I lost all motivation and stopped practicing.
  • So boring.
  • I'm sick and tired of dharma literature, and of DhO, and definitely of sitting on a cushion.

Wouldn't you rather not experience such suffering? Don't they motivate you to do something about them?

Perhaps the issue is that you don't think meditation will help... which is what my suggestion was getting at: just approaching the whole thing with a fascinated mindset.

If I want to move my arm, then - my arm moves! Great. If I want to walk over there - same thing. Yet if I want to sit still - woah! Bunch of stuff comes up. Why is that? Isn't it weird? I'm not talking about one part of the brain having control over the rest. I'm just asking - why are there parts of the brain at all? Why even the need to talk about control?

N A:
Besides, every meditation session ever (well, I dunno about you post-path people) involves some amount of dealing with mental chatter, i.e. a similarly suspicious lack of control over what naively seems like part of self.

Still chattering here, though I hear AF makes quite the dent in it.
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bill of the wandering mind, modified 12 Years ago at 12/19/11 10:24 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 12/19/11 10:24 PM

RE: DN motivation issues

Posts: 131 Join Date: 4/14/11 Recent Posts
When I was first starting to sit seriously, and a big part of me knew I wanted to do it every day, I decided that I was going to do a 'selective noting' of whatever got in the way of me sitting every day.. It was OK for me to have no motivation, but I got in the habit of *always* stopping when that desire to not sit arose and simply saying to myself 'having a thought I dont want to sit'..and then I sat, if but only for 10 minutes. It really defanged that for me and things slowly took off from there.
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josh r s, modified 12 Years ago at 12/20/11 11:17 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 12/20/11 11:13 AM

RE: DN motivation issues

Posts: 337 Join Date: 9/16/11 Recent Posts
whenever you have an idea like "this isn't working" find the accompanying tension, pay attention to that along with all the other sensations, and realize that this tension is the "real deal" and the story you made up to go along with it is just bs. do this with everything for a day or two.

all the stuff you posted is just the "content" that goes along with the tension, try just staying with sensations and whenever you make up some content just drop it.

don't worry about "do i have genuine motivation?" "is this working?" it's literally just a giant made up load of poop, well not literally, but it's not meaningful at all. if you want to do whatever it is you do that isn't staying with sensations then look at the tension that arose with that thought, pay attention to that along with all the other sensations, and forget what your thoughts about that tension were.
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N A, modified 12 Years ago at 12/22/11 12:12 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 12/22/11 12:12 AM

RE: DN motivation issues

Posts: 157 Join Date: 7/10/11 Recent Posts
Thanks everyone for replies.

Gonna stay home for christmas break, meditate as much as possible and see where it gets me.

A question about technique. The kind of meditation that makes the most sense to me is this: continually trying to widen awareness to encompass everything, while paying attention to the three characteristics, without any verbalization (there's hardly any discursive thought when I'm really "in the zone" with this). I don't know what this type of meditation is called. This feels effective while meditating, in that I'm focused and present and seem to have a good moment-to-moment handle on anicca and anatta. The challenge is continual widening of perspective to include more and more of what seems to be the watcher or self in a detached equanimous manner.

Neither noting nor scanning appeal to me at all, they seem frustrating and distracting from the actual task of observation. Especially with scanning it feels like I'm wasting effort learning to control attention in precise ways which have nothing to do with the eventual goal of observing everything (as I understand high EQ). Nevertheless I had obvious progress with scanning at the Goenka retreat.

Is this a suitable kind of meditation to use? Or am I secretly actually doing samatha or something (my greatest fear emoticon)?
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Nikolai , modified 12 Years ago at 12/22/11 9:24 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 12/22/11 9:21 AM

RE: DN motivation issues

Posts: 1677 Join Date: 1/23/10 Recent Posts
N A:


A question about technique. The kind of meditation that makes the most sense to me is this: continually trying to widen awareness to encompass everything, while paying attention to the three characteristics, without any verbalization (there's hardly any discursive thought when I'm really "in the zone" with this). I don't know what this type of meditation is called. This feels effective while meditating, in that I'm focused and present and seem to have a good moment-to-moment handle on anicca and anatta. The challenge is continual widening of perspective to include more and more of what seems to be the watcher or self in a detached equanimous manner.

Is this a suitable kind of meditation to use? Or am I secretly actually doing samatha or something (my greatest fear emoticon)?


Since other techniques do not appeal to 'you' at the moment, then stick with the technique which does. In fact, the technique that doers appeal to 'you' at the moment is something I used to do myself in the dukkha nanas. Panoramic awareness. When there are little eruptions of agitation or frustration etc, allow whatever is arising like that including the sensations seemingly triggering this mental eruptions to be seen as all part of the same field of experience all with the same status. Nothing being given more weight than some other phenomenon. Don't single anything out.

Keep watching from that wide angle. Keeping the 3 C's in mind is also a good idea. Including that mentally felt sense of self/being/presence/watcher etc is also a good idea with the 3 C's still in mind. Allow dispassion for this whole process of mind and body to form off of seeing the 3 C's in it all. Dispassion for the process of craving and clinging that makes the dark night 'dark', will move one to equanimity.

Nick