Does anyone have any advice on how to go about investigating the five aggregates?

More specifically, are there any systematic techniques that can help develop this skill? For example, should one focus on one aggregate at a time until it becomes more easily discernible in terms of the 3C's?

There are two kinds of planes: plane of seeing and plane of volition. Here, the Path of Stream-entrance is the plane of seeing. The other three Paths and the four Fruits of the recluse are the plane of volition. Not having seen before, one sees now. This is the plane of seeing. One sees thus and attends to it. This is called the plane of volition.

"A virtuous monk, Kotthita my friend, should attend in an appropriate way to the five clinging-aggregates as inconstant, stressful, a disease, a cancer, an arrow, painful, an affliction, alien, a dissolution, an emptiness, not-self. Which five? The form clinging-aggregate, the feeling... perception... fabrications... consciousness clinging-aggregate. A virtuous monk should attend in an appropriate way to these five clinging-aggregates as inconstant, stressful, a disease, a cancer, an arrow, painful, an affliction, alien, a dissolution, an emptiness, not-self. For it is possible that a virtuous monk, attending in an appropriate way to these five clinging-aggregates as inconstant... not-self, would realize the fruit of stream-entry."

— SN 22.122

THE AGGREGATE OF FORM
Q. What is the aggregate-method? A. The five aggregates are, the aggregate of form,? the aggregate of feeling, the aggregate of perception, the aggregate of formation, and the aggregate of consciousness. Q. What is the aggregate of form? A.The four primaries and the material qualities derived from the primaries.

FOUR PRIMARIES DEFINED
Q. What are the four primaries? Earth-element, water-element,a fire-element,n air-element.18 What is the earth-element? That which has the nature of hardness and the nature of solidity. This is called the earth- element. What is the water-element? That which has the nature of flowing and the nature of cohesiveness. This is called the water-element. What is the firecelement? That which has the nature of heating and the nature of maturing matter. This is called the fire-element. What is the air-element? That which has the nature of moving and the nature of supporting. This is called the air-element.

The new yogin overcomes difficulties in two ways, namely, through viewing these briefly and through viewing these at length. This should be understood as was fully taught in the determining of the four elements.

DERIVED MATERIAL QUALITIES
What are the derived material qualities? The sense-organs of eye, ear, nose, tongue, body, matter as sense-object, sound as sense-object, odour as sense-object, taste as sense-object, femininity, masculinity, life-principle, body-intimation, speech-intimation, element of space, buoyancy of matter, impressibility of matter, adaptibility of matter, integration of matter, continuity of matter, decay of matter, impermanency of matter, solid food, the basis of the material element and the material quality of torpor.

AGGREGATE OF FEELING
Q. What is the aggregate of feeling? A. From the point of charac- teristic, feeling is of one kind, as being experienced by the mind only. From the point of sense-organ, it is of two kinds thus: bodily and mental. From the point of intrinsic nature, it is of three kinds: blissful feeling, painful feeling, feeling that is neither blissful nor painful. From the point of the Law, it is of four kinds: meritorious, demeritorious, retributive and objective. From the point of faculties, there are five kinds, namely, pleasure-faculty, pain- faculty, joy-faculty, grief-faculty, indifference-faculty? From the point of black and white, it is of six kinds, namely, cankerous feeling of pleasure, non-cankerous feeling of pleasure, cankerous feeling of pain, non-cankerous feeling of pain, cankerous feeling of neither pain nor pleasure, non-cankerous feeling of neither pain nor pleasure. From the point of method, it is of seven kinds thus: feeling born of eye-contact, of ear-contact, of nose-contact, of tongue-contact, of body-contact, contact of mind-element, contact of mind-consciousness. Fully one hundred and eight kinds of feeling are fulfilled. Six states of feeling are aroused from craving; six from renunciation; six from grief-craving; six from grief-renunciation; six from equanimity-craving; six from equanimity-renunciation. Six times six are thirty-six, and in the three divisions of time, these thirty-six are increased three times.This is called the aggregate of feeling.


AGGREGATE OF PERCEPTION
Q. What is the aggregate of perception? A. From the point of character- istic, perception is single, because only the mind apprehends objects. From the point of black and white, it is of two kinds, namely, perception-reversal and perception-non_reversal, From the point of demerit, it is of three kinds, namely, lustful-perception, hating-perception and harming-perception. From the point of merit, it is of three kinds, namely, renunciation-perception, non- hating-perception and non-harming-perception. From the point of not knowing the significant nature of sense-organ, it is of four kinds, namely, the perception of the ugly as beautiful, of ill as well, of impermanence as non-impermanence, of not-self as self. From the point of knowing the significant nature of sense-organ, it is of four kinds, namely, perception of the ugly, perception of ill, perception of impermanence and perception of not-self.l According to the Vinaya, it is of five kinds, thus: the perception of the.ugly as beautiful, of the ugly. as ugly, of the beautiful as beautiful and the perception of uncertainty. From the point of object, there are six kinds thus: form- perception, sound-perception, perception of odour, perception of taste, per- ception of contact, perception of ideas. By way of door, there are seven kinds thus: perception that is born of eye-contact, ear-contact, nose-contact, tongue-contact, body-contact, mind-element-contact, consciousness-element- contact. Thus should the several kinds of perception be known. This is called the aggregate of perception.

AGGREGATE OF FORMATIONS

Q. What is the aggregate of formations? A. Contact, volition, initial application of thought, sustained application of thought, joy, confidence, energy, mindfulness, concentration, wisdom, life-principle, (removal of) hindrance, non-greed, non-hate, modesty, decorum, repose, wish to do, resolve, equanimity, attention, greed, hatred, delusion, conceit, views, agitation and anxiety, uncertainty, indolence, immodesty, indecorum4 and all other mental properties, eJi;cept feeling and perception, belong to the aggregate of formations.

AGGREGATE OF CONSCIOUSNESS
Q. What is the aggregate of consciousness? A. It is eye-consciousness, ear-consciousness, nose-consciousness, tongue-consciousness, body-conscious- ness, mind-element and mind-consciousness-element. Here, eye-consciousness is the cognizing offorms dependent on the eye. This is called eye-consciousness. Ear-consciousness is the cognizing of sounds dependent on the ear. This is called ear-consciousness. Nose-consciousness is the cognizing o f odors dependent on the nose. This is nose-consciousness. Tongue-consciousness is the cognizing of flavours dependent on the tongue. This is called tongue-consciousness. Body-consciousness is the cognizing of tangibles dependent on the body. This is called body-consciousness. Mind-element depends on the five-door-adverting and the receiving of the desirable and the non-desirable. The cognizing (of form etc.) immediately after the five kinds of consciousness.is called mind-element. Mind-consciousness-element: The mind, excepting these six kinds of consciousness, is called mind-conscious- ness-element. These seven kinds of consciousness should be known through these three ways: through organ-object, through object, through states.

"The well-instructed noble disciple... discerns what ideas are fit for attention, and what ideas are unfit for attention. This being so, he does not attend to ideas unfit for attention, and attends [instead] to ideas fit for attention... And what are the ideas fit for attention that he attends to? Whatever ideas such that, when he attends to them, the unarisen effluent of sensuality does not arise, and the arisen effluent of sensuality is abandoned; the unarisen effluent of becoming... the unarisen effluent of ignorance does not arise, and the arisen effluent of ignorance is abandoned... He attends appropriately, This is stress... This is the origination of stress... This is the cessation of stress... This is the way leading to the cessation of stress. As he attends appropriately in this way, three fetters are abandoned in him: identity-view, doubt, and grasping at habits & practices. These are called the effluents that are to be abandoned by seeing."

— MN 2

In the case of material form, contemplating its unattractive and insubstantial nature corrects mistaken notions of substantiality and beauty. Concering feelings, awareness of their impermanent nature counteracts the tendency to search for pleasure through feelings. With regard to cognition, awareness of its deluding activity uncovers the tendency to project one's own value judgements onto external phenomenon as if these were qualities of the outside objects. With volitions, insight into their selfless nature corrects the mistaken notion that willpower is the expression of a substantial self. Regarding consciousness, understanding its deceptive performance counterbalances the sense of cohesiveness and substantiality it tends to give to what in reality is a patchwork of impermanent and conditioned phenomena

Consciousness depends on the various features of the experience supplied by name-and-form, just as name-and-form in turn depend on consciousness as their point of reference.

You investigate the 3 characteristics of the five aggregates and you use the 7 factors of awakening like jhana factors to keep momentum, with investigation being one of the factors, since a person can aim too much with concentration and little investigation.

Analayo:



So if name-and-form are impermanent and consciousness relies on what is impermanent then it is impermanent too. Basically consciousness needs objects to be conscious of to work.

I know Ian And has another book recommendation on the five aggreagates that I want to read next:

The Five Aggregates

I hope that helps.

That's awesome Tom, thanks!

When you do this, how for example do you notice the impermanence of the body/form or perception as it relates to the breath? HOw does this work in practice?

Also, do you feel it "works" for you?

It helps a lot, thanks Richard.

Where is the Analyo quote from? I am just getting to the 5 aggregates section of his book (re-reading). I think it was a bit lost on me first time i read it but that was some time back.. very interesting about the 7 factors. I have not contemplated or tried to develop these purposely either.

...contemplating the conditioned and impermanent nature of the aggregates is of such significance that the direct knowledge of the arising and passing away of the five aggregates is a sufficient qualification for becoming a stream-enterer. Not only that, but contemplation of the five aggregates is capable of leading to all stages of awakening, and is still even practiced by arahants.

When you do this, how for example do you notice the impermanence of the body/form or perception as it relates to the breath? HOw does this work in practice?

Ananda, what is the path and method, to dispel the lower bonds of the sensual world? Ananda, the bhikkhu secluding the mind thoroughly, by dispelling things of demerit, removes all bodily transgressions that bring remorse. Then secluding the mind, from sensual thoughts and thoughts of demerit, with thoughts and discursive thoughts and with joy and pleasantness born of seclusion abides in the first jhana. Established in it he reflects all things that matter, all feelings, all perceptive things, all intentions, all conscious signs are impermanent, unpleasant, an illness, an abscess, an arrow, a misfortune, an ailment, foreign, destined for destruction, is void, and devoid of a self. Then he turns the mind to the deathless element: This is peaceful, this is exalted, such as the appeasement of all determinations, the giving up of all endearments, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation and extinction (* 1). With that mind he comes to the destruction of desires. If he does not destroy desires on account of greed and interest for those same things. He arises spontaneously, with the destruction of the five lower bonds, of the sensual world, not to proceed. Ananda, this too is a method for overcoming the five lower bonds of the sensual world..

Again, Ananda, the bhikkhu overcoming thoughts and thought processes, the mind internally appeased, in one point, without thoughts and thought processes and with joy and pleasantness born of concentration, abides in the second jhana--- in the third jhana—in the fourth jhana. Attained to it, he reflects all things that matter, all feelings, all perceptive things, all intentions, all conscious signs are impermanent, unpleasant, an illness, an abscess, an arrow, a misfortune, an ailment, foreign, destined for destruction, is void, and devoid of a self. Then he turns the mind to the deathless element.:This is peaceful, this is exalted, such as the appeasement of all determinations, the giving up of all endearments, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation and extinction. With that mind he comes to the destruction of desires. If he does not destroy desires on account of greed and interest for those same things he arises spontaneously, with the destruction of the five lower bonds of the sensual world, not to proceed. Ananda, this too is a method for overcoming the five lower bonds for the sensual world.

Again, Ananda, the bhikkhu overcoming all perceptions of matter and anger, not attending to various perceptions, with space is boundless abides in the sphere of space. Attained to it, he reflects all things that matter, all feelings, all perceptive things, all intentions, all conscious signs, are impermanent, unpleasant, an illness, an abscess, an arrow, a misfortune, an ailment, foreign, destined for destruction, void, devoid of a self.. Then he turns the mind to the deathless element: This is peaceful, this is exalted, such as the appeasement of all determinations, the giving up of all endearments, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation and extinction..With that mind he comes to the destruction of desires.If he does not come to the destruction of desires on account of greed and interest for those same things, he arises spontaneously with the destruction of the five lower bonds not to proceed. Ananda, this too is a method for overcoming the five lower bonds for the sensual world.

Again, Ananda, the bhikkhu overcoming all peceptions of space, with consciousness is boundless, abides in the sphere of consciousness.--overcoming all the sphere of conscioussness, with there is nothing, abides in the sphere of no-thingness Attained to it he reflects all things that matter, all feelings, all perceptive things, all intentions, all conscious signs::are impermanent, unpleasant, an illness, an abscess, an arrow, a misfortune, an ailment, foreign, destined for destruction, void, devoid of a self. Then he turns the mind to the deathless element: This is peaceful, this is exalted, such as the appeasement of all determinations, the giving up of all endearments, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation and extinction. With that mind he comes to the destruction of desires. If he does not destroy desires on account of greed and interest for those same things, he arises spontaneously with the destruction of the five lower bonds not to proceed. Ananda, this too is a method for the dispelling of the five lower bonds for the sensual world.

Thanks Tom. I don't really do noting, I just flirt with it from time to time but I do noticing and that post is most relvant I think.

I just came across the Mahamalukya Sutta in Analyo's footnotes this morning. It makes for interesting reading...

The Discourse on Anuruddha
(Anuruddha’s awakening) (A 3.128/1:281 f)

Anuruddha fails to progress

1 Then the venerable Anuruddha approached the venerable Sariputta and exchanged greetings with him. When this courteous and friendly exchange [282] was concluded, the venerable Anuruddha sat down at one side. Sitting thus as one side, the venerable Anuruddha said this to the venerable Sariputta:

“Here, avuso Sariputta, I see the thousandfold world with the divine eye, purified and superhuman. Further, I have put forth effort, and established myself in unfailing unconfused mindfulness, my body is unexcited, bright with faith, the mind is concentrated in oneness.7 But my mind is not released, through non-clinging, from the influxes.”

Sāriputta explains

2 “Now, avuso Anuruddha, as regards this remark: ‘I see the thousandfold world with the divine eye, purified and superhuman’— this is due to conceit (mana). And, avuso Anuruddha, as regards this remark: ‘Moreover, I have put forth effort, established myself in unfailing mindfulness, unconfused, my body is unexcited, bright with faith, the mind concentrated in oneness’— this is due to restlessness (uddhacca).

And, avuso Anuruddha, as regards this remark: ‘But my mind is not released, through not clinging, from the influxes’— this is due to worry (kukkucca). Avuso Anuruddha, it will be good indeed if the venerable Anuruddha abandon these three states, not attending to them, but direct the mind to the deathless element.” Taken from here.

This gesture of attending to the deathless is thus a core spiritual practice but not a complicated one. We simply withdraw our attention from the objects of the mind and incline the attention towards the deathless, the unborn. This is not a massive reconstruction program. It's not like we have to do a whole lot. It's very simple and natural. We relax and notice that which has been here all along, like noticing the space in a room. We don't notice space, because it doesn't grab our attention; it isn't exciting. Similarly, nibbana has no feature, no color, no taste and no form, so we don't realize it's right here. The perceptual systems and the naming activity of the mind work on forms; that's what they go to first. Therefore we tend to miss what's always here. Actually, because it has no living quality to it, space is the worst as well as the best example, but sometimes it is reasonable to use it.

This gesture of attending to the deathless is thus a core spiritual practice but not a complicated one. We simply withdraw our attention from the objects of the mind and incline the attention towards the deathless, the unborn. This is not a massive reconstruction program. It's not like we have to do a whole lot. It's very simple and natural. We relax and notice that which has been here all along, like noticing the space in a room. We don't notice space, because it doesn't grab our attention; it isn't exciting. Similarly, nibbana has no feature, no color, no taste and no form, so we don't realize it's right here. The perceptual systems and the naming activity of the mind work on forms; that's what they go to first. Therefore we tend to miss what's always here. Actually, because it has no living quality to it, space is the worst as well as the best example, but sometimes it is reasonable to use it.

Hah! I think there must be a reference to the Anuruddha Sutta in the Analayo book as I recognise it.

The thing about the Deathless (as my limited understand goes..) is that you cannot turn toward it. There's nothing to turn toward. You can only turn away from the Aggregates (for example) and advert attention to it that way. Shinzen Young has "just note gone", where one notes vanishings (of anything in experience) which adverts attention in this way also. Thanissaro Bhikkhu talks about getting the mind so quiet in 4th jhana that the only place more quiet is Nibbana. Stream entry occurs when the mind finds the 4th jhana unsatisfactory (according to Thanissaro). This seems to be the same thing again.

Developing dispassion for the aggregates presumably inclines the mind toward the only other thing that could satisfy it...

Does that sound about right?

Im not sure it's so simple. Seems a bit more complex if you don't know what nibbana is, only what it isn't?

Deathless = non conceptual sensate experience?

nope. no sensate experience. ."gone gone, gone beyond, gone altogether beyond, O what an awakening, all hail!"

The concept of cessation is very familiar in the Theravada tradition. Even though it's supposed to be synonymous with nibbana, it's sometimes put forth as some event that we're all seeking, where all experience will vanish and then we'll be fine: "A great god will come from the sky, take away everything and make everybody feel high." I don't want to get obsessed about words, but we suffer a lot or get confused because of misunderstandings like this. When we talk about stopping consciousness, do you think that means "Let's all get unconscious?” It can't be that, can it? The Buddha was not extolling the virtues of unconsciousness. Otherwise thorazine or barbiturates would be the way: "Give me the anesthetic and we're on our way to nibbana." But obviously that's not it. Understanding what is meant by stopping or cessation is thus pretty crucial here.

I've known people, particularly those who have practiced in the Theravada tradition, who have been taught that the idea of meditation is to get to a place of cessation. We might get to a place where we don't feel or see anything; there is awareness but everything is gone. An absence of sight, sound, smell, taste, touch, the body—it all vanishes. And then these students are told, "This is the greatest thing. That's what there is to look forward to." The teacher encourages them to put tremendous hours and diligence into their meditation. When one of these students told her teacher that she had arrived at that kind of state, he got really excited. He then asked her, "So what did it feel like?" and she said, "It was like drinking a glass of cold water but without the water and without the glass." On another occasion she said, "It was like being shut inside a refrigerator."

This is not the only way of understanding cessation. The root of the word nirodha is rudh, which means "to not arise, to end, check or hold"—like holding a horse in check with the reins. So nirodha also has a meaning of holding everything, embracing its scope. "Stopping of consciousness" can thus imply that somehow everything is held in check rather than that it simply vanishes. It's a redrawing of the internal map.

A story from the time of the Buddha might help to expand our understanding of what this means. One night while the Buddha was meditating, a brilliant and beautiful devata named Rohitassa appeared in front of him. He told the Buddha, "When I was a human being, I was a spiritual seeker of great psychic power, a sky walker. Even though I journeyed with great determination and resolution for one hundred years to reach the end of the world, I could not come to the end of the world. I died on the journey before I had found it. So can you tell me, is it possible to journey to the end of the world?"

And the Buddha replied, "It is not possible to reach the end of the world by walking, but I also tell you that unless you reach the end of the world, you will not reach the end of suffering." Rohitassa was a bit puzzled and said, "Please explain this to me, Venerable Sir." The Buddha replied, "In this very fathom-long body is the world, the origin of the world, the cessation of the world, and the way leading to the cessation of the world" (Anguttara Nikaya 4.45, Samyutta Nikaya 2.26).

In that instance the Buddha used the same exact formulation as in the Four Noble Truths. The world, or loka, means the world of our experience. That's how the Buddha almost always uses the term "the world." He's referring to the world as we experience it. This includes only sight, sound, smell, taste, touch, thought, emotion and feeling. That's it. That's what "the world" is—my world, your world. It's not the abstracted, geographical planet, universe-type world. It's the direct experience of the planet, the people and the cosmos. Here is the origin of the world, the cessation of the world and the way leading to the cessation of the world.

He said that as long as we create "me and my experience"—"me in here" and "the world out there"—we're stuck in the world of subject and object. Then there is dukkha. And the way leading to the cessation of that duality is the way leading to the cessation of suffering. Geographically, it is impossible to journey to the end of the world. Only when we come to the cessation of the world, which literally means the cessation of its otherness or thingness, will we reach the end of dukkha, unsatisfactoriness. When we stop creating sense objects as absolute realities and stop seeing thoughts and feelings as solid things, there is cessation.

To see that the world is within our minds is one way of working with these principles. The whole universe is embraced when we realize that it's happening within our minds. And in that moment when we recognize that it all happens here, it ceases. Its thingness ceases. Its otherness ceases. Its substantiality ceases.

This is just one way of talking and thinking about it. But I find this brings us much closer to the truth, because in that respect, it's held in check. It's known. But there's also the quality of its emptiness. Its insubstantiality is known. We're not imputing solidity to it, a reality that it doesn't possess. We're just looking directly at the world, knowing it fully and completely.

So, what happens when the world ceases? I remember one time Ajahn Sumedho was giving a talk about this same subject. He said, "Now I'm going to make the world completely disappear. I'm going to make the world come to an end." He just sat there and said, "Okay, are you ready? The world just ended. Do you want me to bring it back into being again? Okay, welcome back."

Nothing was apparent from the outside. It all happens internally. When we stop creating the world, we stop creating each other. We stop imputing the sense of solidity that creates a sense of separation. Yet we do not shut off the senses in any way. Actually, we shed the veneer, the films of confusion, of opinion, of judgment, of our conditioning, so that we can see the way things really are. At that moment, dukkha ceases. There is knowing. There is liberation and freedom. There is no dukkha.]

Not according to ajhan am aro. And maybe not according to this sutta if we consider 'release' to be the equivalent of 'the deathless'.

http://sgforums.com/forums/1728/topics/447451

Excerpt:

"Firstly, nibbāna isn't a "state." Secondly, nibbāna is the cessation of passion, aggression, and delusion. For a learner it is the cessation of the fetters extinguished on each path. The waking states where "suddenly all sensations and six senses stop functioning" are (1) mundane perceptionless samādhis, and (2) cessation of apperception and feeling. Neither of these are supramundane and neither of these are synonymous with experiencing nibbāna."

And further on he states:
"This type of blackout cessation is experienced by all sorts of yogis including those practicing non-Buddhist systems. Thus, it has nothing to do with the correct engagement of vipassanā. The cessation of unsatisfactoriness (dukkhanirodha) is the cessation of craving (taṇhā), not the cessation of phenomena."

Indeed, I concur with Ajahn Amaro. Venerable Nanananda's Nibbana Sermons are also great and explains Nirvana in pretty much the same way Ajahn Amaro did in that excerpt.

Also for readers out there, I find Geoff* (online buddhist forum poster jnana/nana, not Thanissaro)'s posts on Nirvana to be highly informative in ridding the misconceptions of what Nirvana is based on Buddha's teachings.

*Geoff: a scholar-practitioner with a Theravadin and Mahamudra practice background and author of MeasurelessMind, great stuff: http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.sg/2012/09/great-resource-of-buddhas-teachings.html

I just finished The Five Aggregates by Boisvert and it's very clear. He basically posits that sanna (perception/recognition) happens after feeling tone and then craving asserts itself. He also likes to take the aggregates and put them in a circle and let volition condition consciousness and he likes to compare the aggregates to dependent origination (dependent co-arising whatever :grin. I like the idea of past volitions being something that is in memory and can be brought out again to cause craving.
Remembering good and bad things brings up the craving or aversion just like something in the present moment can. He also points out that to break the problem of recognition you would need to incline the mind towards wisdom (panna) "recognition" of the 3 characteristics. Of course the disenchantment follows next.

This is another good book. Thanks Ian And.