Kenneth Folk's book [Dream Walker] [MIGRATE] - Discussion
Kenneth Folk's book [Dream Walker]
Dream Walker - 2014-04-29 18:41:27 - Kenneth Folk's book
Kenneth Folk's book - contemplativefitnessbook
Good stuff in it...I especially liked his descriptions of the Nanas. His description of EQ is well done.
check it out, and buy a copy when he's done and published.
~D
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Eric M W - 2014-04-30 00:46:49 - RE: Kenneth Folk's book
This is awesome.
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Droll Dedekind - 2014-04-30 01:20:49 - RE: Kenneth Folk's book
Aye, Eric, aye
Read a good chunk of it. Does Kenneth address the powers anywhere?
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Robin Woods - 2014-04-30 10:51:17 - RE: Kenneth Folk's book
Thanks DW!!
I don't think I've read anything so quickly in ages. Particularly liked the Ladder of Abstraction thing. Been trying to put my finger on something like that recently but without any way of conceptualizing it. My entire 20s spent utterly lost in a world of extreme abstraction without even being aware it was happening...
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Eric M W - 2014-04-30 11:04:54 - RE: Kenneth Folk's book
He reflects on his first A&P experience while under the influence of LSD, but that's about it.
Talking about the powers isn't very common in the pragmatic dharma community, it seems. It's actually one of my pet peeves, as I've had some mind-blowing powers stuff happen to me in the past and there doesn't seem to be any modern, non-dogmatic framework for such experiences, except perhaps Robert Monroe's books.
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Dream Walker - 2014-04-30 18:22:14 - RE: Kenneth Folk's book
Don't forget "My Big Toe". Where Tom Campbell explains the powers quite well. {shameless plug}
(just read it already....you know you want to)
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Eric M W - 2014-04-30 18:31:08 - RE: Kenneth Folk's book
Don't forget "My Big Toe". Where Tom Campbell explains the powers quite well. {shameless plug}
(just read it already....you know you want to)
Oh right! I have it bookmarked, I found it on Google Books. I had no idea that "TC Physicist" from Far Journeys was Tom Campbell. I need to read it someday...
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Daniel M. Ingram - 2014-05-01 20:47:04 - RE: Kenneth Folk's book
Re: Kenneth and the powers, he has gone through numerous powers-heavy phases in his meditative career but when I talked with him recently about that he was in an anti-powers mood. It is common in general to swing this way when doing strong practice, with interest in the powers turning into dislike for them and then back again, etc. in a cyclical fashion. I have done and continue to do the same.
I actually have just spent lots of time working on substantially extending MCTB2's powers section, as I think that there is nowhere that really covers them that well, and if you are going to get into hardcore practice you should know about them, so think I at this moment, but later I might not be as into them, as noted above.
I think Kenneth's book is really going for his own vibe and aesthetic, which is more palatable and less controversial, more mainstream, more like going to the gym, like there is nothing particularly controversial about working out, though I don't mean to imply "mainstream" in a bad way, as I realize that term here can ring oddly, and I don't mean it to. The mainstream should get quality dharma, dharma that helps them to go deeper if they wish to, and I think that is CF's goal.
Using the funnel analogy, in which there is the wide end of the funnel occupied by things like MBSR and gentle breath-counting relaxation, and the narrow end of the funnel, occupied by things like this place, my read of Contemplative Fitness' purpose is more to get people to feel comfortable and empowered to move from the wide end to the middle of the funnel and perhaps go deeper without feeling like it is something really strange to do so, whereas MCTB is clearly for very narrow end of the funnel and for most people pretty radical, even for many Buddhists.
I think that working all parts of the funnel has merits, and I wish CF great success.
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Eric M W - 2014-05-01 23:31:05 - RE: Kenneth Folk's book
I personally had a powers-heavy phase a few years back, but have largely lost interest these days. I suspect being a dark night yogi plays into this. Still, communicating with an individual who identified themselves as being deceased, and then having all the information verified by a living relative, remains one of the biggest WTF moments of my life.
In addition, a lot of folks talk about enlightenment from a neuroscience point of view. This is great, but it rustles my jimmies when it is implied that enlightenment (or any kind of spiritual practice) is nothing more than the creation of changes in physical brain. The brain can't even be experienced, and even if it could, it would just be a bunch of sensations like everything else.
When one experiences anything like telepathy or out-of-body travel, they have obviously moved beyond the physical brain. It's frustrating when everyone wants to pretend that this "beyond" doesn't exist.
Awesome! The only downside being, a lot of folks with a more materialistic view may find themselves tossing the book down, though I suppose that is ultimately their own problem.
I do think a more mainstream introduction to the whole "Hey, enlightenment is real, attainable, and mappable" thing is a fantastic idea. Maybe we can all come out of the dharma closet now, eh?
Dream Walker - 2014-04-29 18:41:27 - Kenneth Folk's book
Kenneth Folk's book - contemplativefitnessbook
Good stuff in it...I especially liked his descriptions of the Nanas. His description of EQ is well done.
check it out, and buy a copy when he's done and published.
~D
-------------------
Eric M W - 2014-04-30 00:46:49 - RE: Kenneth Folk's book
This is awesome.
-------------------
Droll Dedekind - 2014-04-30 01:20:49 - RE: Kenneth Folk's book
Aye, Eric, aye
Read a good chunk of it. Does Kenneth address the powers anywhere?
-------------------
Robin Woods - 2014-04-30 10:51:17 - RE: Kenneth Folk's book
Thanks DW!!
I don't think I've read anything so quickly in ages. Particularly liked the Ladder of Abstraction thing. Been trying to put my finger on something like that recently but without any way of conceptualizing it. My entire 20s spent utterly lost in a world of extreme abstraction without even being aware it was happening...
-------------------
Eric M W - 2014-04-30 11:04:54 - RE: Kenneth Folk's book
Droll Dedekind:
Aye, Eric, aye
Read a good chunk of it. Does Kenneth address the powers anywhere?
Read a good chunk of it. Does Kenneth address the powers anywhere?
He reflects on his first A&P experience while under the influence of LSD, but that's about it.
Talking about the powers isn't very common in the pragmatic dharma community, it seems. It's actually one of my pet peeves, as I've had some mind-blowing powers stuff happen to me in the past and there doesn't seem to be any modern, non-dogmatic framework for such experiences, except perhaps Robert Monroe's books.
-------------------
Dream Walker - 2014-04-30 18:22:14 - RE: Kenneth Folk's book
Eric M W:
there doesn't seem to be any modern, non-dogmatic framework for such experiences, except perhaps Robert Monroe's books.
(just read it already....you know you want to)
-------------------
Eric M W - 2014-04-30 18:31:08 - RE: Kenneth Folk's book
Dream Walker:
Eric M W:
there doesn't seem to be any modern, non-dogmatic framework for such experiences, except perhaps Robert Monroe's books.
(just read it already....you know you want to)
Oh right! I have it bookmarked, I found it on Google Books. I had no idea that "TC Physicist" from Far Journeys was Tom Campbell. I need to read it someday...
-------------------
Daniel M. Ingram - 2014-05-01 20:47:04 - RE: Kenneth Folk's book
Re: Kenneth and the powers, he has gone through numerous powers-heavy phases in his meditative career but when I talked with him recently about that he was in an anti-powers mood. It is common in general to swing this way when doing strong practice, with interest in the powers turning into dislike for them and then back again, etc. in a cyclical fashion. I have done and continue to do the same.
I actually have just spent lots of time working on substantially extending MCTB2's powers section, as I think that there is nowhere that really covers them that well, and if you are going to get into hardcore practice you should know about them, so think I at this moment, but later I might not be as into them, as noted above.
I think Kenneth's book is really going for his own vibe and aesthetic, which is more palatable and less controversial, more mainstream, more like going to the gym, like there is nothing particularly controversial about working out, though I don't mean to imply "mainstream" in a bad way, as I realize that term here can ring oddly, and I don't mean it to. The mainstream should get quality dharma, dharma that helps them to go deeper if they wish to, and I think that is CF's goal.
Using the funnel analogy, in which there is the wide end of the funnel occupied by things like MBSR and gentle breath-counting relaxation, and the narrow end of the funnel, occupied by things like this place, my read of Contemplative Fitness' purpose is more to get people to feel comfortable and empowered to move from the wide end to the middle of the funnel and perhaps go deeper without feeling like it is something really strange to do so, whereas MCTB is clearly for very narrow end of the funnel and for most people pretty radical, even for many Buddhists.
I think that working all parts of the funnel has merits, and I wish CF great success.
-------------------
Eric M W - 2014-05-01 23:31:05 - RE: Kenneth Folk's book
Daniel M. Ingram:
Re: Kenneth and the powers, he has gone through numerous powers-heavy phases in his meditative career but when I talked with him recently about that he was in an anti-powers mood. It is common in general to swing this way when doing strong practice, with interest in the powers turning into dislike for them and then back again, etc. in a cyclical fashion. I have done and continue to do the same.
I personally had a powers-heavy phase a few years back, but have largely lost interest these days. I suspect being a dark night yogi plays into this. Still, communicating with an individual who identified themselves as being deceased, and then having all the information verified by a living relative, remains one of the biggest WTF moments of my life.
In addition, a lot of folks talk about enlightenment from a neuroscience point of view. This is great, but it rustles my jimmies when it is implied that enlightenment (or any kind of spiritual practice) is nothing more than the creation of changes in physical brain. The brain can't even be experienced, and even if it could, it would just be a bunch of sensations like everything else.
When one experiences anything like telepathy or out-of-body travel, they have obviously moved beyond the physical brain. It's frustrating when everyone wants to pretend that this "beyond" doesn't exist.
I actually have just spent lots of time working on substantially extending MCTB2's powers section, as I think that there is nowhere that really covers them that well, and if you are going to get into hardcore practice you should know about them, so think I at this moment, but later I might not be as into them, as noted above.
Awesome! The only downside being, a lot of folks with a more materialistic view may find themselves tossing the book down, though I suppose that is ultimately their own problem.
I think Kenneth's book is really going for his own vibe and aesthetic, which is more palatable and less controversial, more mainstream, more like going to the gym, like there is nothing particularly controversial about working out, though I don't mean to imply "mainstream" in a bad way, as I realize that term here can ring oddly, and I don't mean it to. The mainstream should get quality dharma, dharma that helps them to go deeper if they wish to, and I think that is CF's goal.
Using the funnel analogy, in which there is the wide end of the funnel occupied by things like MBSR and gentle breath-counting relaxation, and the narrow end of the funnel, occupied by things like this place, my read of Contemplative Fitness' purpose is more to get people to feel comfortable and empowered to move from the wide end to the middle of the funnel and perhaps go deeper without feeling like it is something really strange to do so, whereas MCTB is clearly for very narrow end of the funnel and for most people pretty radical, even for many Buddhists.
Using the funnel analogy, in which there is the wide end of the funnel occupied by things like MBSR and gentle breath-counting relaxation, and the narrow end of the funnel, occupied by things like this place, my read of Contemplative Fitness' purpose is more to get people to feel comfortable and empowered to move from the wide end to the middle of the funnel and perhaps go deeper without feeling like it is something really strange to do so, whereas MCTB is clearly for very narrow end of the funnel and for most people pretty radical, even for many Buddhists.
I do think a more mainstream introduction to the whole "Hey, enlightenment is real, attainable, and mappable" thing is a fantastic idea. Maybe we can all come out of the dharma closet now, eh?
