Need some help with technique

johnson, modified 9 Years ago at 11/27/14 5:32 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 11/27/14 5:31 PM

Need some help with technique

Posts: 33 Join Date: 11/18/14 Recent Posts
Hi everyone. It has been a couple months since I began seriously doing breath meditation. By seriously, I mean at least an hour a day. Right now I am striving for two 30min sessions a day minimum, but usually I can reach 2 hours. All my sessions are short 20-40 minute sessions; I try to go as long as possible and I just rarely am able to get past 40 minutes. I don't think I'm even close to access concentration yet, but I think I am making progress. I have some questions regarding the technical aspects of meditation, and I'd really appreciate some insights:

1) First of all, I am not entirely clear what concentration is when it comes to concentration meditation. Am I using willpower and effort to apply focus onto the object, or am I just lightly noticing my breath while trying to make my mind settle until there's nothing else to notice to the breath? Or, are both ways just different techniques that are both valid and will lead to the same path? 

2) When trying the first method of using willpower to apply focus, I inevitably will begin to tense the muscles around my eyes involuntarily. This has been an ongoing problem, and I am wondering what is the best way to approach this. I have tried just observing and accepting it, but that doesn't necessarily make the tension go away, and experiencing eye tension for long periods of time has detrimental effects on the rest of my day due to headaches. So can I achieve the same results of reaching jhana if I do open eye meditation? 

3) If open eye meditation isn't as effective or is much more difficult than closed eye meditation, I would like to be able to do closed eye meditation without the eye tension. I know the classic saying it to simply accept it, but that's what I've been doing. I can accept it, and the tension stays sometimes, and that leads to meditation sessions that hurt my body. Is that an acceptable outcome?

4) Last question, sorry this is getting long. How important is it that I don't move my body? If I feel an irresistable urge to scratch an itch, for example, or my back is getting sore, am i ruining my concentration a lot by moving my body? Or are these unpleasant sensations just a distraction to reaching jhana, and I should move my body if it means being rid of them?
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Richard Zen, modified 9 Years ago at 11/27/14 6:57 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 11/27/14 6:33 PM

RE: Need some help with technique

Posts: 1665 Join Date: 5/18/10 Recent Posts
rich r a:
Hi everyone. It has been a couple months since I began seriously doing breath meditation. By seriously, I mean at least an hour a day. Right now I am striving for two 30min sessions a day minimum, but usually I can reach 2 hours. All my sessions are short 20-40 minute sessions; I try to go as long as possible and I just rarely am able to get past 40 minutes. I don't think I'm even close to access concentration yet, but I think I am making progress. I have some questions regarding the technical aspects of meditation, and I'd really appreciate some insights:

1) First of all, I am not entirely clear what concentration is when it comes to concentration meditation. Am I using willpower and effort to apply focus onto the object, or am I just lightly noticing my breath while trying to make my mind settle until there's nothing else to notice to the breath? Or, are both ways just different techniques that are both valid and will lead to the same path? 

Relax your entire body. Any mental stress will tense the body. Relaxing all muscles with a sweep of the body is a good way to start. Give yourself some well-wishing and others as well (Metta). Your consciouness/knowing/awareness (same thing) is noticing the breath already. Just tune into the breath and enjoy that fact you can rest stressful thinking. Consistency is more important than striving and pressure. When the mind wanders you non-chalantly return the awareness to the breath with no analysis, argument, or self-measurement. Stay with the process and forget about the goal. The goal will appear naturally on it's own. You are conditioning your mind to stay with the object which is the breath. I like to count up to 10 and reverse back to 1. If the mind counts 11, 12 or forgets the number just start over with the same non-chalant attitude. Absorption should feel like the mind is absorbing with the breath on its own. When you get rapture and feelings of relaxation plus a bright retina then change your object of awareness to the pleasure of the body feelings to keep advancing up the jhanas. In the beginning you're just conditioning the breath to have a skill to stay with the breath. Any meditation sessions without mind-blowing results still have value in the conditioning aspect of the concentration skill. I highlighted self-measurement as the problem because it's a problem no matter whether you are doing a concentration practice or an insight practice.

2) When trying the first method of using willpower to apply focus, I inevitably will begin to tense the muscles around my eyes involuntarily. This has been an ongoing problem, and I am wondering what is the best way to approach this. I have tried just observing and accepting it, but that doesn't necessarily make the tension go away, and experiencing eye tension for long periods of time has detrimental effects on the rest of my day due to headaches. So can I achieve the same results of reaching jhana if I do open eye meditation? 

Relax the tension in the body. Welcome unpleasant thinking and let it go at the same time. Welcoming is the opposite of aversion. You should notice a pressure in the forehead AKA "the third eye" and that's just a sign of the muscle being developed. You can even use that as a concentation object if you don't add too much striving to it. It's more about consistency than striving.

3) If open eye meditation isn't as effective or is much more difficult than closed eye meditation, I would like to be able to do closed eye meditation without the eye tension. I know the classic saying it to simply accept it, but that's what I've been doing. I can accept it, and the tension stays sometimes, and that leads to meditation sessions that hurt my body. Is that an acceptable outcome?

The brain matter related to eye function is more detailed and can be distracted more easily. There are people who can keep the lids slightly open and still not get distracted. That's a trial and error thing where most people opt for closed eyes but it's not impossible to let go when you're advanced in insight practice. For a beginning concentration practice closed eyes is usually more effacacious.

4) Last question, sorry this is getting long. How important is it that I don't move my body? If I feel an irresistable urge to scratch an itch, for example, or my back is getting sore, am i ruining my concentration a lot by moving my body? Or are these unpleasant sensations just a distraction to reaching jhana, and I should move my body if it means being rid of them?

Scratch an itch and develop a posture that is comfortable (I use a chair or lay down in bed - if I'm not sleepy) and do these things with complete knowing and awareness of all detail. You're moving your arm to scratch then pay attention to the intention to pay attention and the intention to move and then the actual scratching motion. This way you are maintaining mindfulness. At this point you may want to be scientific and see what it's like when itches appear and see if they pass away eventually on their own. Mindfulness is always necessary even in concentration. The difference between the two is concentration on one object (the breath) vs. concentration on anything that takes the attention of consciousness/awareness/knowing (any objects).


Have fun practicing! Enjoy resting the negative thinking (the inner critic).

For additional information, try Leigh Brasington:
http://www.leighb.com/jhanas.htm
johnson, modified 9 Years ago at 11/28/14 12:56 AM
Created 9 Years ago at 11/28/14 12:56 AM

RE: Need some help with technique

Posts: 33 Join Date: 11/18/14 Recent Posts
Thank you Richard.

I'm interested to hear what you mean by saying that the consciousness is already aware of the breath, and to just tune in. Does this mean I shouldn't put too much effort into focusing on my breath at all, since I'm already aware of it? I should just be very easy going with the focus?

Also, I have a hard time relaxing my tension. I have tried breathing into it or accepting it, but I still haven't been able to overcome the facial eye tension. I'm not really sure how else to approach it, but I will keep trying. 
Pål, modified 9 Years ago at 11/28/14 5:48 AM
Created 9 Years ago at 11/28/14 5:48 AM

RE: Need some help with technique

Posts: 778 Join Date: 9/30/14 Recent Posts
"When the mind wanders you non-chalantly return the awareness to the breath with no analysis, argument, or self-measurement. "

Hey, do you remember the vitakka santhana sutta instructions? Isn't the Buddha telling us to try out other methods if bringing back attention to the breath directly doesn't work directly?


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Not Tao, modified 9 Years ago at 11/28/14 6:31 AM
Created 9 Years ago at 11/28/14 6:31 AM

RE: Need some help with technique

Posts: 995 Join Date: 4/5/14 Recent Posts
If there is any tension you can actively relese, why wouldn't you? emoticon  I've had more success actively finding and releasing stress than I have trying to accept everything.  If something doesn't change when you try to change it - then you have to let it be.  If something does change when you try to change it - you can put forth effort to keep it relaxed.
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Richard Zen, modified 9 Years ago at 11/28/14 12:22 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 11/28/14 11:50 AM

RE: Need some help with technique

Posts: 1665 Join Date: 5/18/10 Recent Posts
rich r a:
Thank you Richard.

I'm interested to hear what you mean by saying that the consciousness is already aware of the breath, and to just tune in. Does this mean I shouldn't put too much effort into focusing on my breath at all, since I'm already aware of it? I should just be very easy going with the focus?

Also, I have a hard time relaxing my tension. I have tried breathing into it or accepting it, but I still haven't been able to overcome the facial eye tension. I'm not really sure how else to approach it, but I will keep trying. 
Yes I'm trying to get you to use some openness and mindfulness but I can add more instructions to make it more subtle. Concentration is a part of insight in that it can be a foundation and it's an eariler form of 'letting go'. Deeper concentration states are deeper forms of letting go.

Concentration is mainly about one-pointedness and sustaining, but there's more subtlety. Tightness can come from many things. In your case I would check to see if there is over-efforting. For example. If you're lost in thoughts and a loud noise occurs your consciousness/awareness/knowing (same thing) will know that the sound occurred. It's simply that the early meditator is trying to separate thinking from experience and then attacking it and over-efforting to repress the thinking. I like Gil Fronsdal's metaphor of petting the cat. If the cat doesn't purr right away you wouldn't pet the cat harder and harder. emoticon I don't want you to have the wrong attitude of thoughts at the beginning because with insight practice thoughts are inclusive. We eventually learn that consciousness is understood to be there simply because experience is happening and consciousness has no color, shape, or location. The brain can attach to experiences of any kind as a resting place but there is no resting place. Letting go into concentration states are temporary resting places that provide temporary relief until you gain enough insight to let go of clinging/craving/ruminating/fixating itself. Concentration practices are considered a refined form of pleasure.

So here are some methods of relaxing tightening:
  • If you have some duties to attend to then please get them done and put them behind you. This will mean you will have less stuff to think about while meditating.
  • Relax all body and facial muscles before starting. You can do this by squeezing them and relaxing them or just being aware of the tightness and letting it relax.
  • Relax your relationship to the breath. Don't force it to be a certain way. You're just watching what happens naturally because when you are not paying attention to it, the breath is automatic. It can be long or short. Forcing it can cause hyperventilation or the opposite which is a too shallow breath.
  • Start with the breath (and with counting) but allow some awareness for the entire body so you can catch tightening starting to arise. Still maintain awareness of the in and out of the breath while expanding this awareness. You can relax the muscles again as they tighten. 
  • I use the abdomen as the concentration object but some people use kasinas (colored objects) or the inflow and outflow of the breath at the nostrils. This is a choice but ultimately you need to practice something long enough to get good at it so whichever object is more comfortable for you is the one you should explore. Jumping around to different objects means you're starting over again with the skill but with a different object. One-pointedness and sustaining is needed for any object.
  • Explore positions that are comfortable but not too lax. Make sure there isn't too much pain or a lax position that will put you to sleep. I use a chair or sometimes lay down in bed (if I'm not too sleepy).
  • The counting is optional. It's a feedback loop to maintain consistency. Look at this as exercising the attention muscle each time you bring it back to the breath. The inner critic can judge the quality of the meditation too much so don't feed stories of self-measurement and then get lost in that. Another technique other than counting is to try and stay with the breath for 3 breaths consecutively, then rest attention. Then repeat. When you get good at this you can try and maintain complete consistency for 10 breaths, and then when you get good at this try and maintain connection with the breath all the time. By looking at the goals the brain lets go of thinking about jhanas and what they are like. You'll likely bump into the first jhana as your skill improves. Falling in love with the process is really important. Obsessing on the goal will hold you back.
  • Extra awareness beyond just the breath can look at thoughts and tightness and hindrances. You can then skillfully apply antidotes to hindrances so that your one-pointedness and sustaining is like a rudder to steer through obstacles.
  • Countering hindrances is game-like and can add some fun to the process. Skill in concentration is like Rob Burbea says "surfing". Waves will appear and you need to be responsive to them. Don't attack the hindrances with hatred but use antidotes as a counter to them. Sometimes just relaxing the thinking is enough.
  • The hindrances are: sense desire, ill-will, sloth and torpor, worry and doubt. These are your waves.
  • Antidotes to hindrances: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/nyanaponika/wheel026.html
  • If there is any pleasantness it's good to tune into it so the brain expands it naturally and lets go of the unpleasant waves. Don't force pleasantness let it happen on it's own.
  • If you want to coax things skillfully you can imagine well-being. This has been shown in willpower studies that if you pay attention to enjoyable details the brain tunes into that.
  • Be very kind to yourself when meditation doesn't go right because it can't go right all the time. Expect the waves and even welcome them while applying antidotes. Keep doing this and let the enjoyable ripples suffuse the entire body.
  • I also highly recommend a metta practice which can help when we are in a bad mood. http://www.leighb.com/metta.htm
  • Everything is causes and effects so when you are doing these practices you are creating a positive cause and effect relationship.
Richard
johnson, modified 9 Years ago at 12/1/14 6:01 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 12/1/14 6:01 PM

RE: Need some help with technique

Posts: 33 Join Date: 11/18/14 Recent Posts
My past couple sessions have been going better. 

I am much more free flowing during meditation, using as little force as possible and allowing my mind to wander if it pleases, but keeping in mind that my intention is to focus on the breath. So if my mind has a strong urge to day dream, I will allow it, and only very gently coax it to go back to the breath until it eventually does. And if it never does, then I try to be at peace with that, keeping in mind that there will be future sessions. 

My only concern about this method, upon reflection, is that it might be too effortless, but it's definitely better than having tension and then not being able to meditate at all. 

From your posts and other things I've read, it sounds like I should just have faith to keep doing this effortless style of meditation and know that with time, my mind will automatically settle on its own.
Matt, modified 9 Years ago at 12/1/14 10:24 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 12/1/14 10:21 PM

RE: Need some help with technique

Posts: 316 Join Date: 1/14/14 Recent Posts
rich r a:
... I try to go as long as possible and I just rarely am able to get past 40 minutes. I don't think I'm even close to access concentration yet, but I think I am making progress. I have some questions regarding the technical aspects of meditation, and I'd really appreciate some insights:

1) First of all, I am not entirely clear what concentration is when it comes to concentration meditation. Am I using willpower and effort to apply focus onto the object, or am I just lightly noticing my breath while trying to make my mind settle until there's nothing else to notice to the breath? Or, are both ways just different techniques that are both valid and will lead to the same path? 

2) When trying the first method of using willpower to apply focus, I inevitably will begin to tense the muscles around my eyes involuntarily. This has been an ongoing problem, and I am wondering what is the best way to approach this. I have tried just observing and accepting it, but that doesn't necessarily make the tension go away, and experiencing eye tension for long periods of time has detrimental effects on the rest of my day due to headaches. So can I achieve the same results of reaching jhana if I do open eye meditation? 

3) If open eye meditation isn't as effective or is much more difficult than closed eye meditation, I would like to be able to do closed eye meditation without the eye tension. I know the classic saying it to simply accept it, but that's what I've been doing. I can accept it, and the tension stays sometimes, and that leads to meditation sessions that hurt my body. Is that an acceptable outcome?

4) Last question, sorry this is getting long. How important is it that I don't move my body? If I feel an irresistable urge to scratch an itch, for example, or my back is getting sore, am i ruining my concentration a lot by moving my body? Or are these unpleasant sensations just a distraction to reaching jhana, and I should move my body if it means being rid of them?
A bunch of thoughts about what you wrote:

A: In my (10 month) experience, 40 minutes is about how long it takes to reach my 'peak level of practice'.  It's also the  just where my sit often starts breaking new ground.  In other words, I always shoot for 60 minutes or more.  60 minutes is a great length for me, and at that point the challenges to remaining in the sit get even more interesting and I feel like it's breaking ground that I don't know what to do with.

B: I think of the my early practice as exercising 2 main things:
 - honing my ability to notice when I'm wandering and then returning to the chosen object.  Everytime I return to object, that's like one pull-up.
 - crashing through the limitations of how long I can sit.  My first real experience was a 10 day retreat, and on about day 5 60 minute sits went from painful to easy.  If you can get there, you really can make progress fast.

C: Are you able to find a dark place to sit?  A closet knook?  Then you can sit with your eyes open/closed doesn't make much difference

D: I think a tough itch is a good thing to practice with.  Don't scratch it, accept it, let it wash over you, let it do it's worst to you without concern or reaction.  Eventually, if it's really just one of those insensible itches, it will simply go away and you will have had a very valuable experience.  That's the only way I deal with itches, and I feel that technique has let to significant experiences.

E: In my case, it turned out that the same approach (D) was what made 60 minute sits easy for me.  Of course, it's important to not hurt yourself with your posture, but it's also important to learn which seemingly horrible pains simply go away with time and equanimity.  One way to take care of yourself is to experiment and find a good combination of stuff to sit on, so that time wont make anything numb or drive you bonkers.  It's a fine line. emoticon  Goenka calls this 'sitting with strong determination', and says it's a crucial ability to develop, and hopefully it will lead to pain free, and certainly injury free long sits.
johnson, modified 9 Years ago at 12/6/14 7:07 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 12/6/14 7:07 PM

RE: Need some help with technique

Posts: 33 Join Date: 11/18/14 Recent Posts
matthew sexton:
rich r a:
... I try to go as long as possible and I just rarely am able to get past 40 minutes. I don't think I'm even close to access concentration yet, but I think I am making progress. I have some questions regarding the technical aspects of meditation, and I'd really appreciate some insights:

1) First of all, I am not entirely clear what concentration is when it comes to concentration meditation. Am I using willpower and effort to apply focus onto the object, or am I just lightly noticing my breath while trying to make my mind settle until there's nothing else to notice to the breath? Or, are both ways just different techniques that are both valid and will lead to the same path? 

2) When trying the first method of using willpower to apply focus, I inevitably will begin to tense the muscles around my eyes involuntarily. This has been an ongoing problem, and I am wondering what is the best way to approach this. I have tried just observing and accepting it, but that doesn't necessarily make the tension go away, and experiencing eye tension for long periods of time has detrimental effects on the rest of my day due to headaches. So can I achieve the same results of reaching jhana if I do open eye meditation? 

3) If open eye meditation isn't as effective or is much more difficult than closed eye meditation, I would like to be able to do closed eye meditation without the eye tension. I know the classic saying it to simply accept it, but that's what I've been doing. I can accept it, and the tension stays sometimes, and that leads to meditation sessions that hurt my body. Is that an acceptable outcome?

4) Last question, sorry this is getting long. How important is it that I don't move my body? If I feel an irresistable urge to scratch an itch, for example, or my back is getting sore, am i ruining my concentration a lot by moving my body? Or are these unpleasant sensations just a distraction to reaching jhana, and I should move my body if it means being rid of them?
A bunch of thoughts about what you wrote:

A: In my (10 month) experience, 40 minutes is about how long it takes to reach my 'peak level of practice'.  It's also the  just where my sit often starts breaking new ground.  In other words, I always shoot for 60 minutes or more.  60 minutes is a great length for me, and at that point the challenges to remaining in the sit get even more interesting and I feel like it's breaking ground that I don't know what to do with.

B: I think of the my early practice as exercising 2 main things:
 - honing my ability to notice when I'm wandering and then returning to the chosen object.  Everytime I return to object, that's like one pull-up.
 - crashing through the limitations of how long I can sit.  My first real experience was a 10 day retreat, and on about day 5 60 minute sits went from painful to easy.  If you can get there, you really can make progress fast.

C: Are you able to find a dark place to sit?  A closet knook?  Then you can sit with your eyes open/closed doesn't make much difference

D: I think a tough itch is a good thing to practice with.  Don't scratch it, accept it, let it wash over you, let it do it's worst to you without concern or reaction.  Eventually, if it's really just one of those insensible itches, it will simply go away and you will have had a very valuable experience.  That's the only way I deal with itches, and I feel that technique has let to significant experiences.

E: In my case, it turned out that the same approach (D) was what made 60 minute sits easy for me.  Of course, it's important to not hurt yourself with your posture, but it's also important to learn which seemingly horrible pains simply go away with time and equanimity.  One way to take care of yourself is to experiment and find a good combination of stuff to sit on, so that time wont make anything numb or drive you bonkers.  It's a fine line. emoticon  Goenka calls this 'sitting with strong determination', and says it's a crucial ability to develop, and hopefully it will lead to pain free, and certainly injury free long sits.


Any tips on how I can sit longer? I have resolved my facial tension issues for the most part and the quality of my sessions have been much improved. I am much more mindful during the sessions and not drifting as much. But as a side effect of that, time passes a lot slower in my mind and it's harder to sustain a session past 20 minutes when I was able to do 50 minutes before.

It's just tough. I still can't stand itches. And the emotion of boredom and restlessness is eventually unbearable as well.
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Richard Zen, modified 9 Years ago at 12/6/14 9:40 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 12/6/14 9:26 PM

RE: Need some help with technique

Posts: 1665 Join Date: 5/18/10 Recent Posts
rich r a:
matthew sexton:
rich r a:
... I try to go as long as possible and I just rarely am able to get past 40 minutes. I don't think I'm even close to access concentration yet, but I think I am making progress. I have some questions regarding the technical aspects of meditation, and I'd really appreciate some insights:

1) First of all, I am not entirely clear what concentration is when it comes to concentration meditation. Am I using willpower and effort to apply focus onto the object, or am I just lightly noticing my breath while trying to make my mind settle until there's nothing else to notice to the breath? Or, are both ways just different techniques that are both valid and will lead to the same path? 

2) When trying the first method of using willpower to apply focus, I inevitably will begin to tense the muscles around my eyes involuntarily. This has been an ongoing problem, and I am wondering what is the best way to approach this. I have tried just observing and accepting it, but that doesn't necessarily make the tension go away, and experiencing eye tension for long periods of time has detrimental effects on the rest of my day due to headaches. So can I achieve the same results of reaching jhana if I do open eye meditation? 

3) If open eye meditation isn't as effective or is much more difficult than closed eye meditation, I would like to be able to do closed eye meditation without the eye tension. I know the classic saying it to simply accept it, but that's what I've been doing. I can accept it, and the tension stays sometimes, and that leads to meditation sessions that hurt my body. Is that an acceptable outcome?

4) Last question, sorry this is getting long. How important is it that I don't move my body? If I feel an irresistable urge to scratch an itch, for example, or my back is getting sore, am i ruining my concentration a lot by moving my body? Or are these unpleasant sensations just a distraction to reaching jhana, and I should move my body if it means being rid of them?
A bunch of thoughts about what you wrote:

A: In my (10 month) experience, 40 minutes is about how long it takes to reach my 'peak level of practice'.  It's also the  just where my sit often starts breaking new ground.  In other words, I always shoot for 60 minutes or more.  60 minutes is a great length for me, and at that point the challenges to remaining in the sit get even more interesting and I feel like it's breaking ground that I don't know what to do with.

B: I think of the my early practice as exercising 2 main things:
 - honing my ability to notice when I'm wandering and then returning to the chosen object.  Everytime I return to object, that's like one pull-up.
 - crashing through the limitations of how long I can sit.  My first real experience was a 10 day retreat, and on about day 5 60 minute sits went from painful to easy.  If you can get there, you really can make progress fast.

C: Are you able to find a dark place to sit?  A closet knook?  Then you can sit with your eyes open/closed doesn't make much difference

D: I think a tough itch is a good thing to practice with.  Don't scratch it, accept it, let it wash over you, let it do it's worst to you without concern or reaction.  Eventually, if it's really just one of those insensible itches, it will simply go away and you will have had a very valuable experience.  That's the only way I deal with itches, and I feel that technique has let to significant experiences.

E: In my case, it turned out that the same approach (D) was what made 60 minute sits easy for me.  Of course, it's important to not hurt yourself with your posture, but it's also important to learn which seemingly horrible pains simply go away with time and equanimity.  One way to take care of yourself is to experiment and find a good combination of stuff to sit on, so that time wont make anything numb or drive you bonkers.  It's a fine line. emoticon  Goenka calls this 'sitting with strong determination', and says it's a crucial ability to develop, and hopefully it will lead to pain free, and certainly injury free long sits.


Any tips on how I can sit longer? I have resolved my facial tension issues for the most part and the quality of my sessions have been much improved. I am much more mindful during the sessions and not drifting as much. But as a side effect of that, time passes a lot slower in my mind and it's harder to sustain a session past 20 minutes when I was able to do 50 minutes before.

It's just tough. I still can't stand itches. And the emotion of boredom and restlessness is eventually unbearable as well.
The antidote to restlessness is more consistency in practice (counting) and then continue relaxing the body. You need to look at the itches as arising and passing way by acknowledging it and coming back to the breath. If the itches are still too much you need to pay attention to all the sensations of moving your arm to scratch and then mindfully scratch. 

Regarding restlessness, trying to fight restlessness will create more restlessness. Just observe the excess energy like a pinball machine and continue relaxing, being one-pointed and sustaining.  I posted a link on the hindrances above. Even squeezing your muscles and relaxing them can create deeper relaxation.

Here's another link because restlessness is only one of the hindrances. There are others you need to cultivate antidotes for:

Metta instructions:
http://www.leighb.com/metta.htm
Metta and Jhana factors:
http://www.buddhanet.net/mettab3.htm

Antidotes:
https://grevilleacorner.wordpress.com/2013/01/26/5-things-that-hinder-buddhist-practice-and-the-antidotes/

Jhana factors:

1. Applied Thought eliminates Drowsiness and laziness 
2. Sustained thought eliminates Doubt, 
3. Joy or Rapture eliminates Ill Will, 
4. Peaceful Happiness eliminates Restlessness 
5. One-pointed Concentration eliminates Sensual Desire. 

Metta also helps put the mind in a good mood to make it easier to like concentration practice. You have to find interesting details like pleasant sensations to enjoy or to enjoy having this time to relax the mind. Concentration is also one of the factors of awakening so you should notice that when you stay with the breath and let go of ruminating there should be some relief and relaxation. Tune into that.
Matt, modified 9 Years ago at 12/6/14 11:27 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 12/6/14 11:24 PM

RE: Need some help with technique

Posts: 316 Join Date: 1/14/14 Recent Posts
rich r a:


Any tips on how I can sit longer? I have resolved my facial tension issues for the most part and the quality of my sessions have been much improved. I am much more mindful during the sessions and not drifting as much. But as a side effect of that, time passes a lot slower in my mind and it's harder to sustain a session past 20 minutes when I was able to do 50 minutes before.

It's just tough. I still can't stand itches. And the emotion of boredom and restlessness is eventually unbearable as well.
Richard has given you a ton of great reading that may well help.  Read, use your rational, conceptual mind to find determination and technique to coax you along.  I think its universal: more sitting is better, whatever it takes to find more is what you need to do.

I can only offer advice based on my limited experience, its probably worth about what I'm charging you emoticon  Your descriptions are taking me back to my one and only retreat, I now remember all the wriggling, leaning, sweating I did in response to the simple direction: sit still for an hour.  I don't know if I could have done it at home.  You're facing this in home practice, which does not have the same momentum and self imposed -i got myself here, this is the place, i'm gonna kick some ass- motivation as what comes with a retreat setting.

In my current sits, itches come up when I'm roughly 20 minute in if they come at all. I think they are a sign of deepening, that they are exactly where they need to be, and passing the itch stage is required.  It's trivial now to let go of the itches.

Based on my Goenka training: I think your exact current experience is exactly what you need to deal with.  In the case of itching two things to try:
  • direct your attention right at it.  Notice all of it, but don't struggle, Goenka uses this idea over and over: Equanimous awareness of present moment bodily sensations.  The equanimity is what makes it possible for the itch to go right through you and leave not a mark.  OR
  • practice direct attention on something away from the itching spot.  In this way you can reduce the degree to which the itch defines your whole world.  If the breath is unable to hold your attention, find something else (something nice hopefully) to focus on, whatever reduces your relationship with the itching.  Squirming away from the itch is not the best, but it's better than just getting up and stopping the sit.  Take satisfaction in every little success.
Boredom: if it thrives in your head as a concept it's unbeatable.  If you can find the exact bodily sensations that 'boredom' means, then you can stand apart from it and it is no longer your master.

Good luck!
johnson, modified 9 Years ago at 12/7/14 12:41 AM
Created 9 Years ago at 12/7/14 12:41 AM

RE: Need some help with technique

Posts: 33 Join Date: 11/18/14 Recent Posts
Thanks. Perhaps I am just thinking and doubting too much right now.

I just got accepted into a goenka retreat and I will by attending in only a couple weeks. So anxious and scared. It sounds torturous because I would be meditating in 10 days for more hours than my entire life. It sounds hellish. And probably exactly what I need.
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Richard Zen, modified 9 Years ago at 12/7/14 1:29 AM
Created 9 Years ago at 12/7/14 1:28 AM

RE: Need some help with technique

Posts: 1665 Join Date: 5/18/10 Recent Posts
rich r a:
Thanks. Perhaps I am just thinking and doubting too much right now.

I just got accepted into a goenka retreat and I will by attending in only a couple weeks. So anxious and scared. It sounds torturous because I would be meditating in 10 days for more hours than my entire life. It sounds hellish. And probably exactly what I need.

That's the wrong attitude right there. Look at this as a privilege to explore your practice and take it to the next level. Follow the instructions exactly right from the first morning all the way through the retreat. Don't indulge negative content on the retreat.

LOL! Don't get stuck here:

http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/5546622#_19_message_5626586
johnson, modified 9 Years ago at 12/7/14 2:43 AM
Created 9 Years ago at 12/7/14 2:43 AM

RE: Need some help with technique

Posts: 33 Join Date: 11/18/14 Recent Posts
Richard Zen:
rich r a:
Thanks. Perhaps I am just thinking and doubting too much right now.

I just got accepted into a goenka retreat and I will by attending in only a couple weeks. So anxious and scared. It sounds torturous because I would be meditating in 10 days for more hours than my entire life. It sounds hellish. And probably exactly what I need.

That's the wrong attitude right there. Look at this as a privilege to explore your practice and take it to the next level. Follow the instructions exactly right from the first morning all the way through the retreat. Don't indulge negative content on the retreat.

LOL! Don't get stuck here:

http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/5546622#_19_message_5626586


lol yea you're right that I need to discard that type of mentality. I do want to make the most of this and progress further. Either way, this will be quite an experience

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