TL;DR Version: This story is about my initial awakening to my current journey to abiding-awakening. Post your experiences, strategies, or critiques, if you would like.

This will be my first post on this forum after many years of lurking.
 
Lately I have been working with momentum to relatively finish this whole awakening conquest that has been a major part of my experience for the previous 6 years. The goal of this post is to 1) write out my thoughts so they are more objective to myself and 2) receive critical feedback from this community on areas I may not have explored or where I may still be deluding myself.
 
Ultimately, my main strategy is to look inward and continue the practice that I do, but I am always open to alternative ideas. In other words, I am a bit stuck or timid about what is happening, and this leg of the journey doesn’t receive much play time.
 
Very quick background: Started in mid-twenties with mushroom Buddhist mindset about enlightenment and what it is. After a few years of stumbling in the dark not knowing what my real question was, I found a post online flaming Daniel about claiming to be an arhat. I found his site, liked his matter of fact style, and read MCTB. I started noting with a newfound inspiration for having a framework and de-mystified version of what awakening may be. I read ~80% of the material on this site and Kenneth Folk’s original forum. I practiced Kenneth’s 3 gears technique, went through mostly typical experiences with the paths and attained 4th about 4 years ago.
 
For me, 4th path was the first clear experience on non-dual awakening. It lasted for half a day, and represented the end of the uncontrolled rollercoaster ride of 3rd path nana cycling and, most importantly, the obsession with watching nanas.
 
So done is what needed to be done right? Well, not really. Done was my insight disease and the intense energy that fueled me to push further and finally attain the answer I was seeking. There was, and still is, more to be done. But during my push to 4th path, I put blinders on whenever I encountered writings/teachings about what happens afterwards. I figured it would all just come together and I would always be in the enlightened perspective.
 
What happened instead, ego found its way back in during the first few weeks post awakening-bliss and inserted itself firmly in areas of the mind where I would have difficulty rooting it out. I spend the next few years focusing back on my neglected career and caring not of any further progress and basically taking a laissez faire attitude towards my levels of suffering and self-embeddedness.
 
I did have intermittent periods of a return to practice and resulted in a few more experiences of temporary awakened perspective. This actually brought upon the remembrance of Jed Mckenna’s description of abiding non-dual awareness. I re-read his trilogy and his newer Theory of Everything. I also found Adyshanti’s End of Your World and found that it highlighted some areas of delusion where my ego has been camping out and building back its army. On a side note, I would like to through my hat in the ring with those who think Jed McKenna (who is an anonomous author) is actually Adyshanti. There works have so many correlations and parallels, differentiated only really by tone of writing… Anyways, not really important.
 
My operational definition of abiding non-dual awakening is: a human having a human experience but with the persistent perspective of the self being false and everything that arises from self being false. My version of this accepts that self could certainly arise and cause delusion from time to time, but is quickly seen as false and losses ability to do much harm or lead to prolonged periods of embeddedness. Also, there is a loss of anxiety about the imperfections of yourself, your world, and the bubble-bursting reality of what enlightenment really is. I base this on what I have collectively learned from others and my own temporary experience with this perspective.
 
In the past few months, a new energy to pick this journey back up has arisen. Facing up to fear and moments of self-ing and then questioning what is happening on every level is a new puzzle to solve and, of course, my ego loves any chance to make itself more enlightened. This is the problem at this stage. This is the final battle with ego and it is hard at times to see who is doing the fighting. Obviously, no-one is enlightened and there is nothing to do, and it doesn’t really matter what happens from the universal perspective. But this energy to complete the journey is very present, and appears to be sufficient cause to pair with the desired effect. I guess it is going to be in the forefront of my mind until I go through the progression of disembedding self until awareness is abidingly free of its sticky embrace, or I fall back to sleep and the energy fades.
 
So getting to the point; spontaneously awakening to the non-dual perspective of unfolding experience is nice, but unreliable. Conversely, surgically removing ego as the dominate perspective is painful and seemingly a big mound of years of conditioning with not much fruit given out at any one moment of success. For me, insights are piling up, but ego is digging in. This part of the process is filled with so many pitfalls and moments of delusion that it makes my journey from paths 1-4 seem like an easily charted path. Perhaps I am wrong, and I am looking at this with an incorrect view or temperament, thus the reason for this post.
 
How about those of you who have been here or are currently here? What is your experience or strategy?
 
Much thanks,
 
-Melvin

Hi Melvin,

Are you happy?  And, if you had to choose between becoming emotionally happier or more enlightened, which one would be a higher priority?

That being said, I assume the last experience you describe as 4th path is what I, and my previous teacher, would describe as 'technical 4th path.'  For the sake of accuracy, I would make a distinction between this opening, and what is described in MCTB, which much less common, and definitely higher up on the ladder of vertical transcendence.  This is not to devalue the 'technical 4th' attainment;  I believe that it represents an incredibly strong base to build in any direction that you choose.

What has worked for me, as of late, is basically amplifying my skills in concentration & morality, while putting wisdom training aside.  I would guess that we have been dealing with similar terrain.  When you say that parts of your ego are flaring up, I would call these things 'the hindrances' or 'the defilements.'  My plan is to get really good at temporarily eliminating these things as they arise, which will cause them to gradually reduce in intensity over time.  Eventually, I will get back to wisdom training, while relying on my new, mental habits to protect my efforts & realizations.

If you want to pursue further wisdom training, you need to find a tradition that honors the level of complexity and subtlety at which you are currently operating.  Theoretically, a good teacher from any background could guide you through this territory.  The most likely place to find such a teacher would be in some awareness-based school such as Mahamudra.  This is because they have specific maps and terms to guide one past the intermediate openings that could be called 'technical 4th path.'  I'm not convinced that other traditions can supply this.  If anyone disagrees, please point me in the appropriate direction, because the Tibetans are secretive as fuck

2centsover.

Working on your own is possible but slow. Working with a teacher is a whole lot quicker and easier.

Great post Melvin. You're speaking to the heart of this thing. Many people define 4th as the non-dual experience, but it is yet another experience on the way to awakening. My best guess, you're in solid late 3rd territory.

I agree with Derek that this is the perfect stage for working with a teacher.

Just curious, as I haven't seen this - who/where? Thanks.

I don't know any teachers that define this, but rather people who self assess. I'm not going to name names, though.

Ah. Gotcha. Thanks!

Noah, thanks for the input.

I would choose more enlightened or what I see as "abiding awakened perspective". Concearn for being happy, for me, is an ego thing. What I truly desire (who desires this is a question I have been asking myself by the way) is the freed energy that comes from not supporting the illusion of the ego. This is an experience of being ok with being happy or not happy. To me, at this stage especially, seems more natural and desirable than makeing the ego happy emotionally or otherwise.

As warned by those who came before us that provide these hugely useful maps, I try not to mistake the map for the territory itself. So in that light, lets not worry about calling it 4th path or technical 4th, or unfettered arhatship, etc...

What I can do is explain my intermittent experiences with awakening. From this perspective, all that seemed paradoxical before no longer seemed a paradox. From this perspective, I am just a human being having a human experience and lost was the belief that I had a dog in this fight. In other words, the perspective of separateness (e.g. things are happening to me and I must work hard to either resist the undesirable and cultivate the pleasant) vanished and action and motivation instead seemed to come from another place. This place, feels like a solid base of equinimity and compassion, but without self-involvment. Things just are, things just happen. Again, from this awakened perspective, all is well in the world and acceptance of what arrises next is natural and matter of fact. To me, there is no doubt that this was a true experience of awakening and I care not what path it may or may not be. If that awakened perspective that I expereienced had stayed constant, I would have no problem saying that I am "done".

So this is my current quest, where my energy bekons me... how to transition to where this awakened perspective is abiding, or the near-constant perspective of daily experience. To this end, I am rethinking and questioning everything about my experience. As Adyashanti recommened, don't look for ways to find awakening in every experience, look for ways were you are not awakened in this moment. When ego arises, ask yourself what do I believe right now that is not true and follow it as far as you can untill that delusion is released. Do this over and over and over for several years and eventually ego will be dismantled enough for the awakened perspective to become your pervasive baseline expereince.

This is what I am working on and it is a very unraveling experience. There is no safe zone in my mind where I can hide. I have to face everything and it is mostly non-stop. My ego is a vast army with a multitude of strategies. Its hard to belive anything that pops in my head. Who is writting this right now? Where does this stream of thought come from? Who wants to awaken? Is it awareness itself or ego trying to co-opt this enlightenment thing in order to stay in control. It seems like a paranoid part of the path, but how could it not be? I ask you that.

-Melvin

After re-reading my posts I find it important to be clear about the topic I am speaking of.

I am asserting that, upon enlightenment, you are not completely done. It may happen for some people. But for most, your first or subsiquent experiences of enlightenment may not stay as your constant perspective. Sure, you are "enlightened" I guess. You have seen the truth and it is very self-verifying. Unfortunately, it may take years for it to become abiding. I believe this topic is scarcly talked about and, due to its personal nature, is difficult to map and discuss.

Some may not accept this model. But I wanted to have discussions about it anyways.

Much appreciation!

Just a hunch, I think you might like this website:

http://www.unfetteredmind.org/mindtraining/fullindex.php

So did you have a glimpse but then it faded?  It seemed in your first post you said 4th path experience only lasted half a day, what happened then?  In the Tibetan Buddhist tradition, I have read of progression described as 'a glimpse often repeated', until one day it does become a permenant state. 

If you did have a glimpse, good!  I wouldn't consider it 4th path, because 4th path as defined here is a stable attainment, but a glimpse that comes from dedicated practice means you're on the right track!

You seem to have some interesting definitions of what is what.
Do you mind explaining the "typical experiences with the paths"?
Thanks,
~D

Yes, it faded. There is certainly more to be done. We only have to look at the writings of Dr. Ingram to see that post-4th path is big territory.

To be blunt, I am willing to reject attainment of 4th path. Maybe that term makes things more complicated with its ancient trappings. Lets go beyond that. The topic here is about having a true experience of awakening, however breif a glimpse, but transitioning it to a stable perspective. Once you have seen what cannot be unseen, you are forever changed but not immediately transitioned.

I am looking for the input of those in the sanhga who have traversed this territory and find the antcient texts of the buddhist cannon and criptic third person accounts of Tibetan traditions to be utterly useless in the context of a modern day human going throught this stuff. To hell with the old guys and how they did it while living in monastaries and caves. How are we doing it now? Our living teachers seem to stumble on this part of the territory and, if they are being honest, admit that they themselves are not fully transitioned. How is one to be guided then?

MTCB and the many posts on this site has a ton of info on the paths, what they are, and in some cases (in which I whole-heartedly agree with) the pitfalls of their over-analysis.

But just for fun, and in case you meant what my experience of the paths were, here it is:

1st- after a long time of trying very hard to enter into this "path" thing that had so much buzz in the pragmatic dharma circles I went on a solo meditation retreat. I practiced noting vipassana all day for several days with increasing intensity and frustrations. I would say that it wasn't ideal but somehow my obsession with joining the ranks of "pathers" won out eventually. I was walking down a nature path after a meditation session that brought up volumes of mental dissatisfaction that was unbearable. I was having thoughts of giving up on all of this enlightenment nonsense. But for some reason I commited myself to noting everything that arises in my field of awareness as hard as I could for as long as I could. After some time, a cessation occured. For me it was a quick bouncing in and out of awareness of the moment with a sharp diagonal cut in my field of vision. Immediately after this I had a strong buzz at the top of my head and bountiful energy for days. There was no deep insight into the truth of reality or understanding of the perspective of awakening, but some damage was done and I was on the ride. How do I know for sure this was a path moment? I don't but it seemed to fit with others descriptions.

2nd- I was doing my typical noting practice, but from the witness perspective. During this phase, I was becoming more aware of the distinctions between the nanas. Maybe this was my mind trying to conjure up what MCTB said that the nanas were, maybe it is a naturaly shared experience between humans who do this practice, who knows. I can't remember clearly what the path moment was like, but afterwards I had an overwhelming urge to throw away all of my dharma books since everything made sense now. This was not awakening, just strong evidence that I was on the right path and I would certainly make it. The whole, "if you see the buddha on the street, kill him" thing made perfect sense to me at this point.

3rd- Nanas became more and more clear during meditation and waking life. Concentration much improved. Janas 1-6 attainable. Again, all of this is based on my interpretation of what was happening in context of others experiences and some interaction with teachers. If I had to point out one thing I had in common with other's experience with 3rd path I would say that it was the constant and maddening cycles of nanas. Over and over and over and with a non stop obsession with them. School, work, relationships suffered while I was willing to burn anything in my way of making progress. Not a fun time.

4th- After 6 months of 3rd path territory an unusual and coincidental occurance happened to me that brought upon a great level of anxiety. At this point I was working with concepts such as acceptance and surrender. In a monumental moment, I surrendered to this oppressive surge of anxiety. I have done this practice before, and I don't know why, but this time I really meant it. I surrendered completely. I let go as much as I every let go in my life.... then Self disapeared. My very next thought was perpelexing, "What just left?". I realized it was self, but from this perspective, such a thing as self seemed distant and foreign. I spent the next few hours experiencing a reality that was completely non-dual. All that was paradoxical to me before was now natural and effortless.  No problems, not worries. Good things, bad things, me, you, past, present, future, not really a difference. Experience was unfolding, but not to me. It just was. Being.

I always like to keep this thought in my back pocket: Maybe I am wrong this whole time and I am not even 1st path yet. It keeps me honest. But the other thing I can be totally honest about was my experience of what I call 4th path: It was without remainder. It had no room for improvement.... while it lasted anyways. If that wasn't awakening, then I am completely fine just sticking with whatever it was. There was no "me" to want anything other than that level of perspective, so how could I possibly want to go any further?

Now I know the issues here about the "different" 4th paths and the fetters. But having seen what I saw, none of that lines up. I could have all sorts of unwholesome-fettered behavior, but from the non-dual perspective that I encountered, its not a problem. Fetters only seem like a problem to an ego, so how would it even matter???  Thats my take on that. So on that note, if I ever see 4th path walking down the road, I will kill it. It was helpful getting me motivated to do this practice (trying to be one of the cool kids), but now it is not relevant at all. The only relavance that I can justify now is transitioning to an abiding non-dual awakened perspective.  Have I pounded that enought yet?

So what about you, dear sangha? Who has made this transition? No bullshit, no mystified Saintly version of what it should be compared to unverifiable dead people and texts. Lets not speak of it in criptic ways or by immitating what we have read or heard, even if that is how I sound. Please don't worry if my experience of awakenig is authentic or not. I am not trying to verify my awakening to anyone, teach anyone, or sell anything. I just want to go further. So who has the real deal right now?  Is it abiding?  What is your personal story? Did it happen the first time of awakening? Did you have to transition? What did it take?  These are the discussions I seek. This need not be taboo or contraversial to talk about anymore. I mean, that is the whole premise of this website from the get-go.

-Melvin

All the posts are made by the superego that is trying to root out the ego. Thinking there is something blocking the inherent freedom. But this is all thought dependent and ultimately it's just one single thought at a time creating the experience non-abiding and abiding for example. Abiding awakening in this case seems to be an idea based on psychological time. The mind referring to the past and comparing states, making the distinction between "closed" states and the "open" states. "This is it" and "this is not it". This comparison is false, that is just thoughts.. Not that apparent states stop happening. States and emotions etc. will keep on happening but they don't affect the beingness that never fluctuates. And they have never affected this beingness.

You're chasing a specific state that looks like "awakening" but awakeness doesn't look any specific way and it is present even when pain or fear seem to be the experience. And the "you" who is concerned about all this... Well that's just phenomena playing out too and not really blocking anything. And who cares whether it's playing out or not anyway? This question doesn't speak to the super-ego. Not suggesting that the super-ego should become uncaring and detached or something, that would be just another futile strategy to get something that it can't get. There's nothing to do about reality, this is already it no matter how it looks. If there is discomfort there are apparent things that can be done to make life more comfortable. It won't affect reality but it will affect the relative comfort level.

You need to stop if anything. It's a death for the seeming I-entity, not an attainment. Not a physical death btw. I don't see how suicide would be a way out for example.

But there's an underlying sense of lack. Something missing. It's just a felt sense but it's overlooked and that creates the seeming movement towards the "future". That feeling of unfulfillment can be just felt. Not to try and medicate it even. Just to stop all imagination and let it be all there is. Mind wants to run away but this pain needs to be met, and not from a distance. Not met as an observer or a witness etc. Not as anything.

In the end everything remains, so to speak. Even the apparent character. For some people the hangup is that there isn't the willingness to live an ordinary life as an ordinary person. The ordinary life just won't be an expression of separation anymore. It's wholeness appearing as an ordinary life and an apparent person. No self stranded or locked in the body but it's more like the self is everywhere and everything. Forms vary, bus is still a bus and a flower is a flower, but there are no artificial mind-made boundaries separating one thing from another. One beingness and no me within this beingness.

Spot on, Robert. This is usfull input.

This energy to go further may just be arising out of my resistance or overanalysis to the surrender process. It should be taken more simply.

"Abiding awakening in this case seems to be an idea based on psychological time. The mind referring to the past and comparing states, making the distinction between "closed" states and the "open" states. "This is it" and "this is not it". This comparison is false, that is just thoughts."

This is a good point. It is really just my thoughts telling me that awekening is not here now or abiding. I have been giving my thoughts too much attention, I think. I should relax more and stop projecting too much. I think now that I have been focusing solely on surrendering to what arises outside of me and not surrendering also to my thoughts about it.

Good stuff, I will contemplate this.

The mind thinks this because it tries to get something. That is still the same idea of future attainment. There are no shoulds to What Is. And What Is, is what the mind seeks but it cannot be found by seeking. Obviously since what is is already what is. Nothing to do or not do about it.



"Me, my, I..." That "I" is just another thought coupled with an energetic sensation of being inside a body. It's not an actual self, it's phenomena happening in the form of thoughts and sensations and an energetic contraction. The non-dual realization is that the "I" which the thoughts refer to has never existed. And this is not a goal in the future to be attained. It is either seen (not by anyone, it's just evident) or not. Everything is as it is but there isn't a separate knower "behind somewhere" who knows that everything is as it is. That's the so-called realization, although even the word "realization" doesn't really make sense when "This Just Is" without extra assumptions.



Contemplation happens if it happens. If not, then it doesn't happen. The "me" is extra. This is not advice btw. just apparent stating how it actually seems to be.

edit:

Oh and this description and apparent pointing has to do only with the nonduality part. The apparent character can take on a seeming attitude of "being aware of thoughts and letting emotions be" and that can calm the mind and resolve some emotional patterns etc. It's not really the character's choice to do it if it happens, but it'll look like a choice maybe. But if those things are done with a mind-set of arriving to the nondual reality then it is a delusion apparently. The non-dual reality is already the case even when there is apparent work with the mental and emotional patterns going on.