Novice Teacher Seeking Guidance

Julie Mattos-Hall, modified 1 Month ago at 3/7/24 9:31 AM
Created 1 Month ago at 3/7/24 9:26 AM

Novice Teacher Seeking Guidance

Posts: 9 Join Date: 1/26/24 Recent Posts
Hi Everyone,

This is my first post, and I want to start by saying how much I appreciate this community. I've learned a lot here. Big fan of Daniel Ingram.

In a couple of weeks, I will be facilitating my first meditation gathering, and I was wondering whether any of you might have some tips. Perhaps you have taught meditation before, and there are some things you wish you'd known when you started. Or perhaps you have been to a lot of meditation classes, and there are certain things you wish teachers did/didn't do.

A little bit of background: I've been meditating for some 25 years, and it has been fruitful in terms of jhanas and insight.

I'm a Brit living abroad. Some months ago, friends started asking me about maybe teaching meditation. At around the same time, a senior teacher who lives in the same country and with whom I have developed a friendship over the last couple of years started encouraging me quite enthusiastically. Meanwhile, all sorts of ideas started suggesting themselves about what I might teach and how. I feel that I have something to offer.

I have some experience teaching as I used to teach at university, and I loved it. I was hesitant at first, probably because I know this won't necessarily be easy, but then my working hours eased up unexpectedly, and I felt like it was the right time. I sent out a bunch of messages on local groups and have a handful of people coming to my house in a couple of weeks for the first session.

My current plan is to focus on concentration to begin with, and then to introduce some insight practices further down the line. Do you have any tips on how to prepare or structure classes? I've invited people to come for an hour and a half. I was thinking to talk for 45 mins, meditate for half an hour, and then have 15 minutes to talk afterwards. Does that sound reasonable to begin with? How do you manage different levels of experience in one class? (I have one person coming who has been meditating for 35 years and claims some attainment and another who has never meditated longer than 15 minutes). How to handle that?

Any potential issues I might not have thought of?

All contributions will be much appreciated!

Thank you in advance,

"Teishin"

P.S. I have already sought the advice of more experienced teachers in my area and will continue to do so, but I think it is useful to have as many perspectives as possible. I resonate more strongly with the ethos represented here on DhO than a lot of what I see going on around here in terms of Dharma.
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Jim Smith, modified 1 Month ago at 3/7/24 4:44 PM
Created 1 Month ago at 3/7/24 3:37 PM

RE: Novice Teacher Seeking Guidance

Posts: 1687 Join Date: 1/17/15 Recent Posts
I would ask the students why they want to learn meditation and what their expectations are, and also explain my reasons for meditating and my expectations for myself and for the students. You could also give some options for people who don't have any particular expectations.

What is realistic? What can they expect depending on how much they practice.

I would also explain some of the limitations and risks associated with taking up meditation - that is usually neglected in meditation classes.
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Don't forget practice in daily life, I would emphasize that because that is where most of the hours are and that's where the most of the dukkha is. It seems to me the point of meditation is to influence daily life so that is where it is most important to change your mental habits. In subsequent classes I would encourage the students to tell about how they practice in daily life so they can share ideas and give support and encouragement to each other. Beginners often think enlightenment is something that happens during sitting meditation, but later they find out that to really advance you have to bring the practice into daily life, so why not start them off on the right track?

https://inquiringmind.com/article/2701_w_kornfield-enlightenments/
As Ajahn Chah described them, meditative states are not important in themselves. Meditation is a way to quiet the mind so you can practice all day long wherever you are; see when there is grasping or aversion, clinging or suffering; and then let it go. 

As far as teaching both samatha and insight, I would take a look at the anapanasati sutta it combines samatha and insight from the beginning. Samatha in this context is more about relaxation and calming - tranquility/serenity. It is not intense concentration that drives away all thoughts - that is not compatible with the simultaneous insight practices described in the sutta.
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Bahiya Baby, modified 1 Month ago at 3/8/24 12:57 AM
Created 1 Month ago at 3/8/24 12:57 AM

RE: Novice Teacher Seeking Guidance

Posts: 466 Join Date: 5/26/23 Recent Posts
I can't really give you any advice being that I am unfamiliar with your practice and the fruits of your meditation. 

Would you be comfortable discussing your own level of attainment? Or at least your experience of suffering and how it has changed through the practice of meditation? 

What insights have you gained through practice that you wish to impart to these people? 

Throughout the years of your practice what difficulties have arisen that you might be qualified to help others with? 

​​​​​​​If people you teach practice insight meditation and have unusual or unorthodox experiences afterwards will you be available to assist and guide them? And if yes at what cost? 
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Chris M, modified 1 Month ago at 3/8/24 6:04 AM
Created 1 Month ago at 3/8/24 6:04 AM

RE: Novice Teacher Seeking Guidance

Posts: 5182 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
I'll advise you to move heaven and earth to keep your ego out of your teaching and related relationships, meet your audience where they are, and talk about only those things you know from personal experience.
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Jim Smith, modified 1 Month ago at 3/9/24 1:25 AM
Created 1 Month ago at 3/9/24 1:25 AM

RE: Novice Teacher Seeking Guidance

Posts: 1687 Join Date: 1/17/15 Recent Posts
If any students have trouble finding time to meditate or have trouble sitting for more than five or ten minutes, it could be that they are over-doing some activity like social media, computer games or reading page-turner novels and need a "domamine detox". Giving up your compulsion(s) or cutting back, will give you more time to meditate and your brain chemistry will get back to normal and your attention span will increase. Google "dopamine detox" for more info.

I am not saying the full detox routine is needed (or not needed) - my point is just that some activities can become compulsive and take up too much time and reduce attention span. Giving up that activity can help with a meditation practice - you will have more time and it will improve your ability to sit still and to concnetrate for longer periods of time.  
Julie Mattos-Hall, modified 1 Month ago at 3/11/24 1:38 AM
Created 1 Month ago at 3/11/24 1:37 AM

RE: Novice Teacher Seeking Guidance

Posts: 9 Join Date: 1/26/24 Recent Posts
Thank you so much for this helpful reply, Jim. I have followed all the links you posted. I have also, in the past, read some of your other posts, which I really appreciated. The ones about the integration of the fruits of jhana in daily life particularly stuck in my mind.

I've written prompts to discuss all the things that you mention, including the risks. I agree that this is not something that often gets mentioned, although there does seem to be increasing awareness of it (e.g. the work of Willoughby Britton). 

On the other hand, I have seen a teacher tell someone to "watch out she wasn't getting addicted" when, to my mind, she was only just beginning to enjoy the first fruits of practice. As the student seemed very far from addiction indeed, this seemed less helpful than giving her some tips about how to sink into it and depeen.

I appreciate Ajahn Chah's views about the unimportnce of states in and of themselves, but I've also seen this taken to what seems to me a toxic place. A friend of mine recently told me that when he told a (different) local teacher about what sounded to me like his first experience of access concentration, the teacher said "so f$%^&*g what??" The way Ajahn Chah put it was so much nicer. Maybe there was a reson for this teacher putting it like that, but my educated guesss is that it has more to do with this particular teacher's own hangups than it does with the needs of the student.

In sum, it seems like any time anyone around here experiences a glimpse of jhana it gets stamped out in one way of another. I'd like to offer an alternative to such perspectives, without making jhana the be-all and end-all. 

You mention expectations. Do you have any thoughts about what approrpiate expectation of myself and participants could be? I was thinking things like: listen to one another, always be kind, keep discussion to your own personal experience, be engaged, open-minded, do some practice at home...

On another note, do you have any thoughts about how to integrate discussion about sila? I think this is very importwnt but am a bit stumped as to how to address it. I'd like it to be a thread running all the way through.  

​​​​​​​Thanks again

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Julie Mattos-Hall, modified 1 Month ago at 3/11/24 5:04 AM
Created 1 Month ago at 3/11/24 5:04 AM

RE: Novice Teacher Seeking Guidance

Posts: 9 Join Date: 1/26/24 Recent Posts
With pleasure, this is the Dharma Overground, afterall ;-)

And thank you for the questions, I think it's very helpful for me to try to answer them.

I'm 44 and I learned to meditate as a teeneger from a teacher at school, when I was doing my A-levels, in the late 90s. I experienced states of peace right from the start.

I studied Buddhism at uni (Abhidharma, meditation maps, Dzogchen etc). This proved to be an important foundation.

In 2001, there was a profound experience of anatta that "stuck." At that point, any sense of "seeking" disappeared.

It was only about 5 years ago that I experienced jhanas for the first time, when I ramped up the intensity of my practice in terms of regularity and lengh of sitting. I would say they are what I've seen called "soft jhanas." The first four. I haven't given much attanetion to the formless ones yet.

In day to day life, there is a sense of self there, but it is a lot more transparent, and can be seen through relatively easily. I don't have any desire to eliminate it entirely.

The amount of mental chatter is vastly reduced and emotions (which I like to dive into with gusto if they arise) are experienced largely as physcial sensations and don't ever seem to last very long anymore.

Compassion and goodwill towards others is dominant. I don't experience much worry or anxiety, and tend to make decisions quickly without much deliberation. I don't experience nostalgia and there is nothing I regret, even if there are mistakes I have made. Friends have commented on my equanimity as they have witnessed me navigating various life challenges.

When I was younger, I used to desire all sorts of things (nice clothes, all sorts of objects etc). In recent years this has pretty much vanished and I have become a bit of a minimalist. I like to live a very simple life. 

I have a great relationship for about a year with someone on a similar path to me. It is very harmonious and simple.

It's difficult to say how much of this is meditation-related, or whether it is just the result of getting older and having to grow up quickly, to deal, for example, with the early deaths of both my parents. As a curious aside, I particularly enjoy the compnay of older people, and some of my best friends are 20, 30 or even 40 years older than me. But I've always been a bit like that, ever since I was a kid. 

With regard to what I might impart, I think my approach will be very practical, playful, and based on my own experience. I have all sort of little tips to share, basically what worked for me. 

At the same time, I realise that each person is unique and different things work for different people, but that in itself is something important to share in a context where most of what is on offer is "one-size-fits-all."

In terms of difficulties, most of the challenges that have arisen from the development of insight can be summarised under the heading of becoming "a fish out of water." For example, I'm functional and competetent in the professional sphere, but I'm not aware of any sense of ambition. I think this has affected how my career has developed. 

Your final question is particularly important. I understand that teaching meditation is a responsibility. That is one reason why I have avoided it until now; I didn't have the energy to take it on. First of all, I believe that I will have to make myself available to people, within reasonable limits. I see that as part of the deal. Second, if anything goes over my head, I have three friends who are clinical psychologists and who have personal experience of awakening. Two of them are also Dharma teachers. Finally, there is the senior Dharma teacher I mentioned previously. I'm in regular contact with all these people and can seek their advice and also refer people to them if necessary. 

Thanks again
Julie Mattos-Hall, modified 1 Month ago at 3/11/24 5:11 AM
Created 1 Month ago at 3/11/24 5:11 AM

RE: Novice Teacher Seeking Guidance

Posts: 9 Join Date: 1/26/24 Recent Posts
Thanks, this is good advice. I have a friend who runs retreats and he asked me to come along as a trusted friend and as a sort of "peer reviewer." My job was to tell him if I thought his ego was getting problematic in any way (it wasn't, he was amazing). I was inspired by this method, and thought I could do the same. I have some really close friends coming to the gathering, so I can ask if they would agree to do it.
Julie Mattos-Hall, modified 1 Month ago at 3/11/24 5:12 AM
Created 1 Month ago at 3/11/24 5:12 AM

RE: Novice Teacher Seeking Guidance

Posts: 9 Join Date: 1/26/24 Recent Posts
Good tip. I'm adding a note to mention this. Thanks
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Jim Smith, modified 1 Month ago at 3/11/24 11:36 PM
Created 1 Month ago at 3/11/24 5:18 PM

RE: Novice Teacher Seeking Guidance

Posts: 1687 Join Date: 1/17/15 Recent Posts
Julie Mattos-Hall
Thank you so much for this helpful reply, Jim. I have followed all the links you posted. I have also, in the past, read some of your other posts, which I really appreciated. The ones about the integration of the fruits of jhana in daily life particularly stuck in my mind.

I've written prompts to discuss all the things that you mention, including the risks. I agree that this is not something that often gets mentioned, although there does seem to be increasing awareness of it (e.g. the work of Willoughby Britton). 

On the other hand, I have seen a teacher tell someone to "watch out she wasn't getting addicted" when, to my mind, she was only just beginning to enjoy the first fruits of practice. As the student seemed very far from addiction indeed, this seemed less helpful than giving her some tips about how to sink into it and depeen.

I appreciate Ajahn Chah's views about the unimportnce of states in and of themselves, but I've also seen this taken to what seems to me a toxic place. A friend of mine recently told me that when he told a (different) local teacher about what sounded to me like his first experience of access concentration, the teacher said "so f$%^&*g what??" The way Ajahn Chah put it was so much nicer. Maybe there was a reson for this teacher putting it like that, but my educated guesss is that it has more to do with this particular teacher's own hangups than it does with the needs of the student.

In sum, it seems like any time anyone around here experiences a glimpse of jhana it gets stamped out in one way of another. I'd like to offer an alternative to such perspectives, without making jhana the be-all and end-all. 

You mention expectations. Do you have any thoughts about what approrpiate expectation of myself and participants could be? I was thinking things like: listen to one another, always be kind, keep discussion to your own personal experience, be engaged, open-minded, do some practice at home...


Some people meditate because they want to have mystical experiences, some want to get enlightenment (according to their belief about what enlightenment is) some people want to cope with stress, some people want to develop siddhis, some people want to end suffering, some people just heard meditating is "good" so they want to do it, some people just want to try it and find out what it is, etc etc.

Knowing what your students are expecting can help you customize your instructions, or force them to clarify their own thinking, or correct unrealistic expectations.

I think it's okay to teach stuff you haven't experienced if you have a valid reference. Human civilization would be set back 1000's of years if people didn't teach things they didn't experience themselves.

Trying to keep your ego out of your teaching is a correct objective to aim for, but realistically, how many perfectly enlightened buddhas are there teaching these days? Just do your best, try to help and not to harm. 


On another note, do you have any thoughts about how to integrate discussion about sila? I think this is very importwnt but am a bit stumped as to how to address it. I'd like it to be a thread running all the way through.  

​​​​​​​Thanks again
​​​​​​​

Sila relates to the practice because it is helps you to lead a quiet peaceful life that helps you to have a calm mind which is needed develop tranquility and insight. 

And karma and rebirth are the basis for ethics in Buddhism. It is really in your own selfish best interest to practice sila because that will help you keep your karma positive. Even materialist atheists can understand that if you go around doing bad things - treating people badly - it will have bad consequences when people come after you for revenge or word about your character is spread around and people don't trust you etc.

And bad karma coming around to get you will not help you to have a calm mind needed for making progress in meditation.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/index.html

Try to explain how sila will help your students fulfil their reasons for meditating. Reducing stress, awakening, etc. Sila isn't to satisfy some judge in the afterlife, it is to help you here in this life.
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Dream Walker, modified 1 Month ago at 3/13/24 12:09 AM
Created 1 Month ago at 3/13/24 12:09 AM

RE: Novice Teacher Seeking Guidance

Posts: 1693 Join Date: 1/18/12 Recent Posts
Sorry, 
You are far too vague in your post to say any useful as a reply.
Good luck,
​​​​​​​~D
Todo, modified 1 Month ago at 3/13/24 11:02 AM
Created 1 Month ago at 3/13/24 11:02 AM

RE: Novice Teacher Seeking Guidance

Posts: 167 Join Date: 8/20/18 Recent Posts
Listen teachers of all ages have realized a very simple truth about human perception. This realization is utterly paradoxical. So they have been trying to convey it as best as they could. Being human they were subjects of their times & children of their societies. So their teachings came mixed with much of the local lore.
In our age the dominant paradigm is science.  So the science tainted view might be something like this:
Our perceptual apparatus is biased. A "me" here seems to be perceiving a "world" out there.. this is an illusion.  The reality is: the perception field is unified & our brains in their quest to make sense of it have to cut it into pieces, recognizing patterns and regularities.  Moreover the development of language gave us the ability to "name" these "things" and build elaborate constructions completely detached from the immediate experience.  The "me" is one such construction.
This probably needs some unpacking depending on the audience. 
Julie Mattos-Hall, modified 1 Month ago at 3/23/24 5:04 AM
Created 1 Month ago at 3/23/24 5:01 AM

RE: Novice Teacher Seeking Guidance

Posts: 9 Join Date: 1/26/24 Recent Posts
Some people meditate because they want to have mystical experiences, some want to get enlightenment (according to their belief about what enlightenment is) some people want to cope with stress, some people want to develop siddhis, some people want to end suffering, some people just heard meditating is "good" so they want to do it, some people just want to try it and find out what it is, etc etc. Knowing what your students are expecting can help you customize your instructions, or force them to clarify their own thinking, or correct unrealistic expectations.
Thanks again for this thoughtful and helpful reply, Jim.

I taught my first class a few days ago. Most of it was introductions and discussions about what meditation can be, and what it is not/ potential issues.

People came looking for stress reduction, so a lot of what I had initially imagined teaching will not be relevant, at least not for now. I have to bring things right back to basics. Interestingly, this is more challenging than I had anticipated. People want guided meditation, so I'm reflecting on how best to provide that

So far I have focused on the importance of developing a good and comfortable sitting position/ posture, alert relaxation, checking in on the posture periodically, how to watch and investigate the breath, coming back to the breath when thoughts arise and without getting frustrated, letting go of background noises...

I'm thinking of quite early on introducing concepts like tuning into the "silence behind the sounds," investigating who it is that is perceiving, disidentifying with thoughts, investigatibg the nature of emotions...

Just thinking out loud. Any reflections on these ideas would be much appreciated.
I think it's okay to teach stuff you haven't experienced if you have a valid reference. Human civilization would be set back 1000's of years if people didn't teach things they didn't experience themselves.
Thanks for this perspective; it's a good point.
Trying to keep your ego out of your teaching is a correct objective to aim for, but realistically, how many perfectly enlightened buddhas are there teaching these days? Just do your best, try to help and not to harm.
This seems an appropriately relaxed and realistic attitude that is more likely to lead to success than stressing out too much.
Sila relates to the practice because it is helps you to lead a quiet peaceful life that helps you to have a calm mind which is needed develop tranquility and insight.  ...Try to explain how sila will help your students fulfil their reasons for meditating. Reducing stress, awakening, etc. Sila isn't to satisfy some judge in the afterlife, it is to help you here in this life.
Some people seem to be able to act unethically and nevertheless have a calm mind, since they don't see any issue with their behaviour. A lot of it comes down to emotional maturity, and I'm not sure whether than can be taught/ encouraged. It appears to be something that tends to develop with age, although it doesn't always. Nevertheless, I think it can be a good idea to introduce the notion of sila as an intrinsic part of the practice from the get-go, along the lines you describe.

​​​​​​​Thanks again
shargrol, modified 1 Month ago at 3/23/24 8:48 AM
Created 1 Month ago at 3/23/24 8:44 AM

RE: Novice Teacher Seeking Guidance

Posts: 2413 Join Date: 2/8/16 Recent Posts
For what it's worth...

I think a big part of stress reduction aspect is just getting people aquainted by the idea that "presence" is a lower stress experience than "worrying about the future that is actually unknowable or remembering the troubled past that can't change". But worrying and remembering is basically automatic and fighting past memories or future thoughts to make a thought-and-memory-free present also creates stress... You can't stop it and you can't fix it. So what is the solution?

Getting used to letting things be. Meditation is a chance to learn how to "let". It's the old joke that you can fight reality, but you'll only lose emoticon But once you let things be as they are, you can find a bigger sense of presence in that. It's actually possible to rest in the midst of worries and memories. It's a change in attitude more than forcing the mind to be in a particular way. 

So all the practice methods are there to create a container for "letting things be as they are" -- which really doesn't involve doing anything, but it's something humans have a hard time allowing unless they practice.

Whatever the practice is, it needs one component that helps someone re-find the present (e.g. breathing sensations for mindfulness of breathing practice, or a holy world which is used in centering prayer) and a method for respectfully acknowledging unhelpful worries or memories (e.g. labelling them as "worry" and "remembering" in noting practice).

And then you can say that by being mindful of all of this, there is a natural instinct to drop unhelpful worries and recurring memories over time, but that's something that is only learned through lots of low-effort repetition. The more you force it, the slower the progress emoticon But with a good, gentle, caring heart we create the best context for slowly learning this lesson and learn it deeply until it becomes an unconscious intelligence that doesn't get fooled. We learn to automatically recognize worry as worry and memory as a memory, and then we are confused and stressed out about them.

You also owe it to them to say that sometimes people need help with this and that's what therapy is all about. Sometimes people have oppressive recurring worries or memories. Sometimes repressed trauma can bubble up in the safe place of mediation. It's a real thing and people need to know that. It's a real risk of meditation and it's only ethical that people know about it.

You also owe it to them that practicing this a lot can leave to more spiritual experiences, both good and bad, and that's what religions with contemplative practice traditions are all about. This is a real thing and people need to know that.

People also need to know to STOP if they feel uncomfortable and they should feel completely free to get up and leave the meditation hall at any time. You also owe it to them to say that you can't personally guarantee their safety and they really need to look out for themselves. If you scare them, that's fine. Better to scare people than to hide important information. 

Lots of ethical aspects of being a teacher. I personally do not feel that people should attempt teaching what they don't already know proficiently. 

DhO is a place where, unfortunately, a lot of people who were not warned or given good guidance (or who have no teacher, did a retreat without any discussion of possible risks/side effects, had a big opening and now they have no one to help them) show up and need help.

I really wish teachers were much more forthcoming about the risks associated with meditation. 

See also Daniel's ethical suggestions: 35. How the Maps Help – MCTB.org

"The maps tell you clearly what you are looking for and explain precisely why you are looking for it, how that insight helps, and how that insight provides the ground for what follows. The same thing could be said of the concentration state maps. If the stages of insight didn’t tend to bring up all sorts of unusual raptures and produce such a wide range of potentially destabilizing emotional side effects, there would not be so much need for the maps. You could simply tell people to increase their perceptual abilities until they awakened, and they would likely have few difficulties in doing so by properly applying the techniques. However, the insight stages do tend to cause these sorts of effects, so the maps are very useful for keeping people on track in the face of them.

Remember the chapter called “The Seven Factors of Awakening” when I mentioned that the first factor was mindfulness and that this was really good for sorting out what is mind and what is body and when each is and isn’t there? That is because the first insight you are looking for, the one that allows you to see more deeply, is stage one: Mind and Body. Get it? This stuff is not random or arbitrary. It is all clearly laid out in a way that helps and fits with reality. In other words, the order is significant and worth respecting.



Remember how I said in that chapter that we should try to experience the intentions that precede actions and thoughts, as well as the mental impression or “consciousness” that follows all sensations? That is the key understanding in stage two: Cause and Effect. Thus, mindfulness is the first factor of awakening because it leads directly to the first two classic insights into the truth of what is going on. If you want insight into something, then looking precisely into that aspect of things is the best way to acquire that insight.


Once we have directly experienced these two insights, then the three characteristics begin to become obvious in stage three, which is exactly why the next factor of awakening is called investigation of the truth, i.e. Three Characteristics. The seven factors of awakening and the insight maps tell you exactly what you are trying to understand and why. You will not be able to directly understand the three characteristics without first being able to distinguish what is mind and what is body and the relationships between them. Without understanding the three characteristics, regardless of what you call them, you will not be able to advance. The Buddha laid it all out step by step. While this may seem unromantic, unpoetic, uncreative, and even dry, it is also extremely practical and without a doubt the clearest presentation of exactly how to wake up that I have ever seen presented in any spiritual system, just so my biases are made perfectly clear. In short, these maps and techniques can be profoundly empowering. 


Once the three characteristics become clear, the mind naturally speeds up and becomes more powerful. This is because it finally begins to draw on its tremendous power to see things directly and investigate without processing them through thought. Anyone who has driven a car, played a video game, or done just about anything else, knows that you just do it, but if you try to think about every little thing you are doing, the action would be impossible. 


This increase in mental power due to non-conceptual and direct experience is related to the third factor of awakening, energy. Energy may now even be blazing up and down the spinal cord, the mind gets bright and alert, and soon energy is flowing naturally, as we begin to enter the early part of stage four: Arising and Passing Away. Remember how this correlates with the second shamatha jhana, where applied and sustained attention or effort are no longer needed? They just happen on their own, to a large extent, and energy is naturally present. Thus, it all ties together. 


The next factor of awakening is joy or rapture, which comes to predominate in the second vipassana jhana and the Arising and Passing Away, just as it does in the second shamatha jhana. Thus, all the important advice about rapture given earlier applies to the insight maps in Part Four. We are generally advised to avoid becoming a rapture- or kundalini-junkie in this stage, although I suppose that if this is your primary reason for meditating, it is certainly your right to do so. Just be wary of the inevitable crash.
During the mature Arising and Passing Away, as well as in Dissolution (stage five), tranquility becomes important and more pronounced, but then becomes too strong in late Dissolution. Thus, it becomes important to build the sixth factor of awakening, concentration, and developing concentration is an oft-recommended strategy in the Dark Night.

Finally, when the Dark Night really kicks in, as it will once we can again find our objects and stay with them (Fear through Re-observation), then Equanimity in the face of all experience becomes vital for progress, as stated in Part One. Thus, Equanimity can arise and Path can be attained.
As mentioned before, the maps fill in the seemingly huge, frustrating, and nebulous gap from doing something like sitting on a cushion paying attention to the sensations of your breath and finally awakening.The maps also tell you exactly what the common traps and temptations of each stage are. They warn people about not getting stuck in Mind and Body by solidifying it into a jhanic state, which it closely resembles. They provide comfort and explanation when things might get jerky, unpleasant, or even downright painful in stage three, Three Characteristics. They admonish people not to get too fascinated with how much of a mighty meditator they might feel like in stage four, Arising and Passing Away, and even to examine the sensations that make up the seemingly wondrous and tantalizing corruptions of insight such as equanimity and rapture. They warn of the possibility of thinking that we are enlightened when going though that stage, as well as saying that it is normal for wild and sometimes explosive experiences to occur.

I spoke with a friend who basically wanted me to help him rationalize that his recent A&P experiences occasionally allowed him to touch High Equanimity. My advice was that a much more helpful form of inquiry would be to notice the sensations of fascination with this issue and notice the sensations of the rest of his sensate universe come and go moment to moment. If he couldn’t manage this, he should be putting his time into trying to figure out how to get together enough money and vacation time to do another long retreat and/or how to increase his daily practice time and the thoroughness of his investigation.
The maps clearly state that the process is not a particularly linear one, and that after the highs of the Arising and Passing Away there usually follow times of difficulty when all the spectacular power of the mind and pleasure of meditation gained in the Arising and Passing Away are likely to fade dramatically. They warn of the numerous difficulties that may be encountered in the Dark Night stages, as well as provide lots of information about how to deal with them. The most common mistake is failing to investigate the truth of sensations deemed undesirable or unpleasant. It is hard to get on more intimate terms with reality when we feel a bit too emotional, vulnerable, raw, openhearted, or shaken, and so progress through the insight stages that make up the Dark Night is not always easy.

While I do generally wish to avoid biting the hands that have fed me, I must say that not telling practitioners about this territory from the beginning to give them a heads-up as to what might happen is so extremely irresponsible and negligent that I just want to spit and scream at those who perpetuate this warped culture of secrecy. While many teachers may not do so because they don’t think many people will ever get this far, that in and of itself is a scary assumption that should cause some serious questioning of their teaching methods, techniques, and perhaps even motivations.

Imagine that there is a medication called Damnital that is used to treat some form of suffering (perhaps it’s a pain medicine or an antidepressant). However, in a subset of patients its long-term use is known to cause pronounced anxiety, paranoia, depression, apathy, micro-psychotic episodes, a pervasive sense of primal frustration, pronounced lack of perspective on relationships, reduced libido, feelings of dissatisfaction with worldly affairs, and exacerbation of personality disorders, all of which can lead to markedly reduced social and occupational functioning. Imagine that these side effects are known to persist sometimes months and even years after someone stops taking the medication, with occasional flare-ups and relapses, with the only effective treatment being to restart the meds, perhaps increase the dose, add supportive care and counseling, and hope that these side effects pass quickly with little damage.

Now, imagine that you are living in the dark days of paternalistic medicine during which doctors prescribe these practices without fully disclosing the potential side effects despite being fully aware of them. Imagine that drug companies are not required to disclose known side effects. Does anything in this scenario make you even a bit uncomfortable? I should hope so!


Let’s say for the sake of argument that I am a fanatic who is blowing this way out of proportion. Let’s assume that Damnital only causes these effects in one out of every ten thousand patients. Would you have these side effects included on the little piece of paper that comes in the bottle? Let’s say it’s one in a hundred? At what point does it become absurd that those doctors and drug companies are being allowed to get away with this? Unfortunately, I must admit that I do not know the exact odds of these side effects happening to you. I do know firsthand that they happen and that if you cross the A&P you are likely to run into at least some of them.


These side effects are no fantasy. When they show up they are as real and powerful as if some dangerous drug had seriously skewed your neurochemistry, and I often wonder if that might be something like what happens. Thus, it seems only fair to have the same standards that we apply with such pronounced zeal and fervent litigation to drug companies and doctors also apply to meditation teachers and dharma books. For reasons unknown to me, this book is the first one I know of to spell out all of these things explicitly in language that everyone should be able to understand so that you can go into meditation having been fully informed of the risks and benefits and thus make informed decisions about your own practice. In the spirit of professionalism, I call on others who promote the dharma to immediately adopt a similarly high standard of open disclosure of risks, benefits, and alternatives for their own work."
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Chris M, modified 1 Month ago at 3/23/24 8:58 AM
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RE: Novice Teacher Seeking Guidance

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Marvelous post!

Wash, rinse, repeat: ​​​​​​​

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Lots of ethical aspects of being a teacher. I personally do not feel that people should attempt teaching what they don't already know proficiently. 


The point is - and this has happened to me - if you find yourself struggling to know what to do about the things that students bring up while you're teaching, you should probably stop teaching.
kettu, modified 1 Month ago at 3/23/24 1:30 PM
Created 1 Month ago at 3/23/24 1:30 PM

RE: Novice Teacher Seeking Guidance

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This is an interesting thread. Thank you all.

Shargrol and Chris write to the point. But what are the limits of responsibility of a teacher?

There would be very few teachers if all of them would stop when to them unknown material surfaced in their students. Teachers also need to learn to teach. Learning will include mistakes.

I’ve had few guides or teachers of inner life in various contexts. They all lacked something, did not see somethings or understand something. And they all could teach me about learning to see what is (- but did i learn?). They all hopefully continued to learn. In the end not one of them could help me through certain inner stuff. Was it their responsibility? How their teaching was inholved in the (re)surfacing and development of said stuff? Who knows. 

Teachers need to be open about what their limits are. But it is not necessarily a ”stop teaching” thing, when students experience go over the teachers limits - or is it? It may be, for sure, but when?

A welcome component of a teaching of meditation etc would be that teachers would have their own teachers or some peer group to solve any difficulties.

Collective understanding and continued learning is always beneficial. No culture (and no person) will have all or perhaps even most of the keys to understanding. 

Also ability to say ”I’m sorry” would be useful for a teacher. 

Thanks!
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Jim Smith, modified 1 Month ago at 3/23/24 4:58 PM
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RE: Novice Teacher Seeking Guidance

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Julie Mattos-Hall


People came looking for stress reduction, so a lot of what I had initially imagined teaching will not be relevant, at least not for now. I have to bring things right back to basics. Interestingly, this is more challenging than I had anticipated. People want guided meditation, so I'm reflecting on how best to provide that




If you are looking for suggestions I recommend this:
https://ncu9nc.blogspot.com/2020/08/preparing-for-meditation-with.html
Julie Mattos-Hall, modified 1 Month ago at 3/25/24 6:43 AM
Created 1 Month ago at 3/25/24 6:41 AM

RE: Novice Teacher Seeking Guidance

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shargrol For what it's worth... I think a big part of stress reduction aspect is just getting people aquainted by the idea that "presence" is a lower stress experience than "worrying about the future that is actually unknowable or remembering the troubled past that can't change". But worrying and remembering is basically automatic and fighting past memories or future thoughts to make a thought-and-memory-free present also creates stress... You can't stop it and you can't fix it. So what is the solution? Getting used to letting things be. Meditation is a chance to learn how to "let". It's the old joke that you can fight reality, but you'll only lose emoticon But once you let things be as they are, you can find a bigger sense of presence in that. It's actually possible to rest in the midst of worries and memories. It's a change in attitude more than forcing the mind to be in a particular way.  So all the practice methods are there to create a container for "letting things be as they are" -- which really doesn't involve doing anything, but it's something humans have a hard time allowing unless they practice. Whatever the practice is, it needs one component that helps someone re-find the present (e.g. breathing sensations for mindfulness of breathing practice, or a holy world which is used in centering prayer) and a method for respectfully acknowledging unhelpful worries or memories (e.g. labelling them as "worry" and "remembering" in noting practice). And then you can say that by being mindful of all of this, there is a natural instinct to drop unhelpful worries and recurring memories over time, but that's something that is only learned through lots of low-effort repetition. The more you force it, the slower the progress emoticon But with a good, gentle, caring heart we create the best context for slowly learning this lesson and learn it deeply until it becomes an unconscious intelligence that doesn't get fooled. We learn to automatically recognize worry as worry and memory as a memory, and then we are confused and stressed out about them.
Thank you for this helpful framing. I have reflected on how to convey this both in the discussion section and in the guided meditation.
shargrol You also owe it to them to say that sometimes people need help with this and that's what therapy is all about. Sometimes people have oppressive recurring worries or memories. Sometimes repressed trauma can bubble up in the safe place of mediation. It's a real thing and people need to know that. It's a real risk of meditation and it's only ethical that people know about it. You also owe it to them that practicing this a lot can leave to more spiritual experiences, both good and bad, and that's what religions with contemplative practice traditions are all about. This is a real thing and people need to know that. People also need to know to STOP if they feel uncomfortable and they should feel completely free to get up and leave the meditation hall at any time. You also owe it to them to say that you can't personally guarantee their safety and they really need to look out for themselves. If you scare them, that's fine. Better to scare people than to hide important information.  Lots of ethical aspects of being a teacher.
Yes, thanks for reitterating this important point. I discussed this with them last week, and will discuss it further as we go on. Last week, I introduced the idea of a 360 degree approach, in which sitting meditation is just one part. It also includes mindfulness practice off the cushion, physical practices, and, if relevant, talk therapy, as we all all the other therapeutic modalities. This was to give them a sense of meditation not being a "cure-all," although it is an important part of a well-rounded approach.
shargrolI personally do not feel that people should attempt teaching what they don't already know proficiently.
It depends on what you mean by "teach." I have always intended to teach primarily from experience as I believe that is where I can add value, but on reflection, I don't think that it would make sense to keep completely silent about everything I don't have experience of. For example, I dont have any experience of the iddhis, but I don't think that means that I won't at some point mention what they are. This doesn't mean that I will be teaching anyone how to achieve them (at least not yet ;-). I guess the distinction lies between teaching people something and teaching people about something. I think that if the distinction is clear to all participants it's more likely to be ok.
shargrol  DhO is a place where, unfortunately, a lot of people who were not warned or given good guidance (or who have no teacher, did a retreat without any discussion of possible risks/side effects, had a big opening and now they have no one to help them) show up and need help. I really wish teachers were much more forthcoming about the risks associated with meditation.

I agree, and it's not just the risks. I've seen people who clearly experienced some initial opening being told some very unhelpful things that have shut them right down. One of the things that impelled me to want to teach was my sense that I could offer more helpful perspectives.

​​​​​​​Thanks for the MCTB quote; I like the medication simile.
Julie Mattos-Hall, modified 1 Month ago at 3/25/24 7:13 AM
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RE: Novice Teacher Seeking Guidance

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This is an interesting thread. Thank you all.
Thank you for this thoughtful contribution.
Shargrol and Chris write to the point. But what are the limits of responsibility of a teacher? There would be very few teachers if all of them would stop when to them unknown material surfaced in their students. Teachers also need to learn to teach. Learning will include mistakes.
I was listening to the interview with Daniel Ingram on the "Teaching Meditation" podcast with Tucker Peck and Upasaka Upali this morning. (For those who don't know it, this is a great podcast: https://teachingmeditation.buzzsprout.com) in that episode, Daniel talks about how he started teaching and mentions some of the mistakes he made.

I think if we are stretching outselves and learning we will always make mistakes. The main thing is to be on the lookout for them and to be ready to admit them when they happen, correct them, if possible, as well as make amends.
I’ve had few guides or teachers of inner life in various contexts. They all lacked something, did not see somethings or understand something. And they all could teach me about learning to see what is (- but did i learn?). They all hopefully continued to learn. In the end not one of them could help me through certain inner stuff. Was it their responsibility? How their teaching was inholved in the (re)surfacing and development of said stuff? Who knows.nTeachers need to be open about what their limits are. But it is not necessarily a ”stop teaching” thing, when students experience go over the teachers limits - or is it? It may be, for sure, but when? A welcome component of a teaching of meditation etc would be that teachers would have their own teachers or some peer group to solve any difficulties. Collective understanding and continued learning is always beneficial. No culture (and no person) will have all or perhaps even most of the keys to understanding.  Also ability to say ”I’m sorry” would be useful for a teacher.  Thanks!
I can relate to this and appreciate your perspective including the nod to your own responsibility. I think your point holds true for all close relationships, actually. Nobody can be everything to someone else, everyone can be thought to "lack something" from a certain perspective. People can only offer what they have to offer. The fact that they choose to offer it at all is already something to be appreciated. Ideally, an exchange should take place within a relationship of mutual respect and goodwill, with each person taking responsibility for themselves and what they bring as well as being respectfaully aware of each others (apparent) limitations.

Thanks :-)
Julie Mattos-Hall, modified 1 Month ago at 3/25/24 7:15 AM
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RE: Novice Teacher Seeking Guidance

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Jim Smith If you are looking for suggestions I recommend this: https://ncu9nc.blogspot.com/2020/08/preparing-for-meditation-with.html
Thanks. This is a very interesting site all round.
kettu, modified 1 Month ago at 3/25/24 3:55 PM
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RE: Novice Teacher Seeking Guidance

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It’s great that you ask these questions and ponder on the function of being a teacher. It will perhaps save you and your students some trouble. 
Conal, modified 1 Month ago at 3/26/24 2:13 PM
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RE: Novice Teacher Seeking Guidance

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I must say that the medication simile doesn't work for me. I can understand Daniel using it given that he is a medical doctor, however it assumes that meditation can make the situation worse in a similar manner to the side effects of medication. I don't agree with that.
I think that what meditation does is to make you more aware of your issues. This can seem like it is making them worse by bringing them to the forefront. For me a better simile is of a tank unknowingly moving through a minefield. Meditation can be compared to a radar that shows up the mines. You therefore realise the danger that you are in and that can come as a shock, but you are better placed to deal with it than if you hadn't got the radar. Similarly we all have our issues or karma that are lying under the surface. When they are unknown, they are a lot more dangerous than when they can be seen, despite the trauma that they may bring up.
​​​​​​​Anyway that's my two cents!

Conal
Conal, modified 1 Month ago at 3/26/24 3:05 PM
Created 1 Month ago at 3/26/24 3:04 PM

RE: Novice Teacher Seeking Guidance

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I'll add a caveat that it does depend somewhat on the kind of meditation that is being taught. A faulty radar may be worse than no radar at all!

​​​​​​​Conal

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