DAY 2024-05-12

​​​​​​​I did 30 minutes. I'm still at my mother-in-law's house. I didn't get to have coffee. I started feeling drowsy. It was strong at the beginning of the meditation. In the first 10 minutes, I tried to relax more, not to force the noting. After 10 minutes, I began trying to increase the speed, but tried to balance it, not pushing too hard, but increasing the speed. There was a moment when I was noting two notations per second, but it didn't go beyond that. At 20 minutes, the drowsiness increased a lot. I decided to open my eyes and note aloud. Even so, with difficulty, drowsiness, heavy eyes, I would close my eyes, and there were times I had to force myself to open them again, noting images, the desire to give up, difficulty in noting. I went back to observing the body sensations, but it was very difficult due to the drowsiness. Today is Mother's Day here, my wife and my children woke up inside, so I decided to stop.

Hmm... I still have the feeling that emotional tonality is going to be the thing that makes a big difference for you. There is a slight feeling of deadness that I sense and I'm not totally sure that "faster" is what is needed. I keep thinking things need to be more "juicy".

I think you are already very good at body sensations and quality of attention (energy, dull, clarity)... 

I predict that either or both of these might be helpful: 1) labelling emotions and/or 2) labeling sensations with positive, negative, or neutral.

For the first one, you might have to note more slowly and it might take a while to develop your own "notes" for emotions. It is very common for people to need to reseach "lists of emotions" to learn how to note in finer detail. 

For the second one, go right to the point of a sensation's arrising and notice if you are drawn to it (positive) want to avoid/push it away (negative) or if it seems unimporant (neutral). The point here is to really feel the juicy essence of things. Juicy juicy juicy.

Just some thoughts from random guy on the internet. Who knows maybe someone hacked my account and is giving out terrible advice -- only use what makes sense to you!

What you say have a big weight for me. Than I will follow your instructions.


Please, can you explain more this?

The emotional part was the challenge since the second day of my 10-day retreat. Do you think it's worth it for me to highlight the emotional patterns I experienced there?

Searching the internet for lists of emotions, the following was highlighted:
"Emotions are unconscious reactions, while feelings are a kind of judgment about your emotions."

In this case, then I need to note more emotions then feelings?

DAY 2024-05-13

"Today I did an hour of meditation. I started by relaxing my body, checking my posture, and observing my breathing. I slowly began to try noting, not forcing it. I set the intention to observe more emotions and feelings. Right from the start, I tried to observe feelings because I wasn't seeing emotions, as I understood that emotions are reactions to something external, or when internal, they are some image, some memory, or even a reaction to a sensation I'm having in my body. Then I realized that an emotion can be a reaction to a memory, a mental image, or a bodily sensation, or physical sensation. So, I kept observing. Initially, the feeling was one of tranquility, neutrality, and curiosity. About 10 minutes in, I noticed a sensation in my stomach. I looked at it and it was like nausea, it was nausea. I began observing this sensation. There was some... rejection. A rejection of that sensation in the stomach. So I continued observing. Investigating whether it was associated with something else. I thought it might be related to yesterday when I had a discussion with my wife. I think it might have been that, but anyway, I accepted it, let it go, left it there. And then I kept observing. Accepted, let go, left it there. It passed. Around 30 to 35 minutes in, the dullness phase came. But I was very present. I was perceiving well. I wondered, who is in this phase? And I managed to perceive quite a lot. Again, I was 90% conscious. So, I was aware, I wanted to note feelings, emotions, but couldn't. So, I sensed a feeling of discomfort, a desire to see more, but it wasn't there. It was limited, so I stayed with the bodily sensations. Awareness, I remember I was conscious. There was a loss of the center of attention, a feeling of sleepiness, but I was conscious, I was present, so I stayed there. I accepted, did not reject, because I was rejecting that situation. I saw a feeling of rejection. So, I maintained. Accepted. And around 50 to 55 minutes, the dullness passed, I returned to being attentive to the center of attention. Awareness of the center of attention. I was perceiving things well. Saw a feeling of gratitude. Of calm. That everything was okay. And so I finished. With an hour."

By the way, I might be making inaccurate judgements based on how the translation software is describing your sits... but it sounds like your last sit included a bit more investigation of the tonality of emotions which I think was good.

(It's always hard to judge other people's practice, which is why I make myself include the "I might be wrong" statements... )

But here's why I'm emphasizing emotions as a recommendation: In general, our thinking mind is what most adults identify with. "I am my thoughts, my thoughts are me." This is totally normal and fine, but when someone gets serious about meditation they need to see that thoughts arise on their own, almost like they are being excreted from the brain like moisture is excreted from the skin. Thoughts also serve to soften and manage our bodily experience. When we feel discomfort, our thoughts quickly fill in the space with plans on how to address the discomfort. Even when we feel pleasure, our thoughts quickly fill in the space on how to moderate it or get more of it. The actual discomfort and the actual pleasure is almost not as important as the thoughts themselves. 

I like the way you said it above, that emotions are the pure instinctual reaction and feelings are a kind of thought, it's a judgement about the emotion. So even feelings are a way to manipulate/moderate the raw experience of an emotion.

To make progress through the dark night and through EQ and to SE, there has to be a disidentification with the flow of thoughts (and feelings). There is no way to "choose" to do this. Basically the only way to develop the skill to let go of thoughts is to pay more attention to the raw and primal experience of sensations and emotions. This is why daniel emphasizes "staying at the level of sensate reality" in his pointers.

Basically, the more a person can experience the raw sensations of the body and the primal experience of the emotions, the more capable they become of dropping their identification with thoughts and feelings. It's not that thoughts and feelings are repressed, but rather the meditator becomes intimate with the actual things that trigger thoughts and feelings. 


And as a by product of this work, we also see that there are a lot of reactions to sensations and emotions that were previously unconscious and unhelpful. Does the emotion of anger make us want to fight the other person? want to run away? what to please the other person? want to freeze and avoid? What if we could stay mindful in the presence of anger and have all the options available? What if we could be responsive (have options) instead of reactive (forced down a single path). Etc. etc.

This is actually why the dark night is so important. In the dark night we learn from things like dullness/dissolution, fear, misery, disgust, desire for deliverance, and reobservation that feelings (thoughts about emotions) can't protect us from these raw emotions. We have to learn to be directly intimately with these emotions --- and then surprisingly, they don't trigger the same reactions anymore. If you don't resist, the "bad" emotions don't persist.

And in EQ it's important to learn to let go of the thinking mind itself. This is much easier after mastering the dark night experiences, but in EQ there can still be a tendency to "think about" EQ instead of directly experiencing it.

I've seen many smart meditators never quite break through EQ because they continue to try to "figure out" how to meditate better. In almost all of those cases, they tend to use the space of meditation to think about meditation, instead of focusing on intimacy with the raw and primal experience of body sensations and emotions --- even in EQ. The body sensations and emotions in EQ can often be disconcerting, as if we're "present" but can't really tell what the self "is" -- getting used to this almost groundless state is what prepares the mind to be able to jump to nibbana. 


​​​​​​​Anyway, that was a long post. Hope it is helpful in some way.

 

Very good, Shargrol!

I will continue trying to perceive and notice emotions more, as well as not forgetting about the raw sensations.

Thank you so much!

Barros, here is what helped me go through the DN, EQ and into SE, but also post SE. 

This is Kenneth Folk teaching in a few short videos (play list) how to note raw experience as it unfolds. All these aspects are very important to know and to know as they arise and pass away. BTW, Kennet Folk was my teacher, but also was teaching Shargrol and Chris and many others on this forum and else. The last video is Shinzen and that video helped me also understand this practice of noting and labeling matter of fact sensations. Its good to revisit these short videos, especially before the sitting session. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1W30oR1UDBI&list=PLky8N7-NqOd95njMDZ3LD7-i24cqKmtQO

DAY 2024-05-14

Today I did 1 hour and 10 minutes. I began by relaxing my body, focusing on my breath. I quickly entered access concentration. Very attentive. Noticing well. Nothing distracted me. I was very alert to thoughts and emotions. I set this intention. And I found a mental position. A comfortable one, as if I had a position from which I could perfectly observe. When a thought arose, I noticed it and did not identify with it. Interestingly, there was a moment when an image appeared. A memory of an upcoming event. And my mind wanted to criticize that event. And I noticed it. I noticed anger arising from that memory. I precisely noticed it and let it go. It did not proceed. Another moment occurred. My son coughed, he was nearby. Another emotion arose. Of affection. Of affection. And I also let that go. In this first phase, everything was calm. Feelings of curiosity. Of tranquility, of peace. Of pride for being able to get things right. For notating well. At 35 minutes, the dulling phase came. My vision started to blur. The center of attention... was... shaken. With difficulty in noticing. I relaxed. Let it be, accepted the situation. Initially, I was feeling a rejection. A desire to change the situation. I accepted the situation. I reduced the types of notation. I noticed more the body, the energy. Body sensations. At 50 minutes, the phase passed. And a pain in my right ankle came to the foreground of attention. It was capturing my attention. I could only notice it, I looked only at it. Tried to relax, couldn't. The pain was bothering me. So, I decided to change position. The pain passed. I returned to relaxing, being at peace. There was nothing else to notice. Except thoughts. Then, thoughts of reaching one hour and quitting started. But I had time, today I started to meditate earlier. So, I said, I'll go up to one hour and ten. And then, I began to notice these thoughts of quitting. I was accepting them, letting them go. And it relaxed. And then, it was a phase of tranquility, but many thoughts of comments. Comments about the practice. And then, the challenge was to comment and not let myself identify with them. Sometimes they followed, sometimes I managed to notice them. So, that's an area to improve. This phase was calm, but many thoughts, comments about the practice. And at one hour and ten, I finished.

Cool Dusko! I will see. Thanks!

I forgot to mention that in the first 30 minutes, at the peak of confidence in noting everything, as if the notation was under my control, suddenly the speed of things arising that I was perceiving increased and I started to get anxious, as if I was losing control of the notation. It was like playing the Kazoo out of sync because the music started to become fast and complex.

I really like how you report on how things change by themselves like this. First it's one way, then it's another, then it is yet another. The world keeps turning. 

Thanks Martin :-)

A lot of the time the speed of things is dependent on being really initimate and direct with awareness of sensations/emotions. When you get very "close" to the actual sensory experience, it often speeds up in an A&P-like or Reobservation-like way. 

I'm watching very curiously to see if the speed aspect continues to occur. 

DAY 2024-05-15

​​​​​​​Today, I did an hour of meditation. Before starting the session, I watched Kenneth Folk's video on noting. The fourth video in the series talked about categorizing mental states and emotions. It really opened my mind about how to notice emotions and mental states. The aspect of the tone of sensations was also interesting, as well as the sensation of pressure, itchiness, and cold in the body. With that, I started the session. My mind was a bit agitated because I was thinking a lot about the subject. So I relaxed, let my mind calm down. After 5 minutes, I started to note slowly, and gradually the speed increased. I began to notice a lot of pressure, cold, and itchiness in the body. I usually don't pay attention to this. I saw a lot of this, noted a lot of it. The aspect of pleasure, neutral, or displeasure in sensations—I noted that a lot too. As for emotions, I was noticing tranquility and contentment. A lot of tranquility and contentment. There were moments of noticing a bit of confusion and dullness, but they were few. Today, there wasn't a phase of dullness, just moments of it. I noted the dullness, and it went away. I noticed blurry vision, but it didn't last. Today was very dynamic. I was noting well today. The speed of noting increased a lot. Today was progressive; it started slower, and towards the end, it increased and did not drop. Today, I didn't feel the drop, it just kept increasing at the end. There was a moment when I thought I was going to get absorbed. I was noting my breath a lot, the concentration was pulling me towards the breath, but it didn't go there. I continued noting, thoughts came, and I noted thoughts as thoughts. Today, I almost didn't identify with the things that arose. I can say that I had 80% noting and 20% identification. In other words, 80% non-identification with things and 20% identification. That was my feeling.

 

DAY 2024-05-16

I meditated for an hour. I started by relaxing my body, checking my posture, and observing my breath. Right from the beginning, I started noting in a free style, trying to observe the four foundations of mindfulness, but with greater attention to the tone of sensations and emotions, feelings. Up to 30 minutes, I have difficulty remembering how it was, but I remember having energy, calm, and contentment, but there was a lot of trying to note different things. I don't remember the speed very well, but I have the feeling it was fast. Well, here’s the part I remember. After 30 minutes, I had more moments of dullness today, my mind became duller. I remember my vision becoming blurry, difficulty in noting emotions, and I was noting a lot of bodily sensations. The five senses, mostly vision, touch, and hearing. A difficulty in noting things, the speed of noting decreased. Around 40 minutes, a lot of pain in my right ankle, it was calling a lot of attention, I spent a minute just noting the pain in the ankle, then I decided to change position. I changed, and after the change, I still spent about two or three minutes noting the pain, then it passed. The dullness weakened, but it was still present. At the end, I started noting more mental confusion. I was familiar with the noting, it was there, I was present. I saw calm, I saw awareness, I saw images, random images. They were not quite mini-dreams, but confusion, like: what am I doing? I found myself asking. Well, and it continued like this until the end.

DAY 2024-05-17

​​​​​​​Today I meditated for an hour. Before meditating, I was very sleepy because I went to bed late last night. I had thoughts that I wouldn't be able to meditate, that I would fall asleep. Thoughts like, for sure I would fall asleep. But at the same time, I had the thought that I had managed not to sleep before. So, I decided to try. I sat down to meditate. And to my surprise, which is great, I was attentive, sat with good posture, observing the breath, relaxing, feeling the heaviness in my forehead from sleepiness, feeling the mental and physical sleepiness in my forehead. I kept observing that. I didn't force the noting, I let it happen naturally because the idea was that I was doing more than my willpower. I was doing more than I expected. So the expectation was low, which made it interesting to see this. With low expectations, I was already doing a lot. I was seeing, I wasn't experiencing sleepiness—well, actually, I was sleepy, but I was able to note it, I was present. I felt the sleepiness, I saw it, but I was present, noting well. I wasn't having dreams, mini-dreams, I wasn't lost in reveries, I was there, present, feeling the sleepiness, and it was fine. And then the noting increased, I started noticing more things, but at their own pace. It wasn't at a high speed, I was noticing two things with each breath, each inhale, each exhale. Around 25, 30 minutes in, the torpor phase set in, which is natural. It usually happens. And then I started noticing mini-dreams. But I was accepting it well because, again, the expectation was low, I imagined it would happen, I was already doing a lot. So, I stayed like this until around 45 minutes, or maybe 40, having many mini-dreams but coming back, going and coming back, and I was clear about what was happening. After 40 minutes, I decided to open my eyes because I remembered, well, it's like this, but it can get better. I'll open my eyes and try to note. I opened my eyes, noting mentally, not out loud, and the energy improved, I wasn't having mini-dreams anymore. The sleepiness was still there, but I was clearer about what was happening, noting things well, and it stayed like that until the hour was up. So, I noted many things, I was accepting the situation. The situation didn't have rejection—well, actually, it did. Thinking back, I had moments of wanting to close my eyes, to sleep, but I noted that and it passed, it came in waves. Sometimes I was experiencing rejection because I was sleepy, wanting to close my eyes, and then it passed, and I noted it well, staying calm, content, with pleasure in the breath, feeling pleasure. Then the sleepiness would return and I would reject it. I was experiencing rejection but I was present and knew it would pass, and I continued like this until the end.

Good to know, Shargrol. Thanks!

I had switched to 'Tree View' mode here and didn't see your response.

DAY 2024-05-18

​​​​​​​Today, I meditated for an hour, starting by relaxing my body and calming my thoughts. Around the 5-minute mark, I began noting, starting slowly, noticing the natural pace, and trying to adjust the speed. Around the 15-minute mark, I started to have a certain perception of thoughts. I was looking more at feelings, thoughts, emotions. I began to notice thoughts because I was going through a phase of perceiving the solidity of the self. In the thoughts, I felt a strong sense of self. In bodily sensations, hearing, and vision, I did not have identification, I did not have this sense of self. So I was kind of comparing when I was noting bodily sensations, when I was noting thoughts, comments, comments about the practice, thoughts about the practice, a sense of self. This sense of self came along with discomfort. There was a stronger dissatisfaction, a discomfort. So I was kind of noticing this. It was interesting, this comparison I was making, seeing, between bodily sensations that I did not identify with as much, and the thoughts I saw, I identified with more, had a sense of self there. Well, I kept noting, and around the 30-minute mark, my vision became blurry, there were moments of uncertainty, difficulty in noting, confusion. I began to see impatience with what I was noting. I saw a feeling of wanting to correct the phase of dullness, the phase of numbness, impatience, anger, due to the difficulty of seeing things clearly. I felt a lot of anger at this moment. Even the baby crying inside was bothering me. I have so much love for him, and he was crying, and I saw feelings of emotion. And I began to notice that these emotions, they disappeared, the anger passed quickly too. I saw the anger fading away, but in the background, there was still a feeling of anger and impatience. There was an aversion at that moment. And I thought it might be the dukkhānas, so I accepted it more, began to accept the moment more. I stayed there, noting with difficulty, but noticing this discomfort, this underlying anger. And around the ten-minute mark, no, fifty-minute mark, it was the last ten minutes, this difficult moment passed, I began to see things clearly, the anger passed, the aversion phase passed. And I noted tranquility, calm, and as I noticed this, a feeling of gratitude came along, contentment, joy, gratitude. A feeling of gratitude came along, contentment, much contentment. And I stayed in these moments for the last ten minutes. The speed of noting increased, but when an hour was up, I had to finish.

Great work Andre. 

Thanks Bahiya!

DAY 2024-05-19

Today I meditated for an hour. I started by relaxing my body. Watching the breath, calming the mind. Quickly, I had access concentration. Very happy. With pleasure, feeling pleasure in the breath and in the body. But before 10 minutes... I started coughing. This cough of mine that's been around for a long time. Now it's getting better. I'm treating it. But I'm still coughing. And today I coughed. And it persisted for a few minutes. Around 5 minutes. It would come and go. And then I lost the momentum. And then my expectation dropped. I didn't notice it right away. The expectation dropped. I started having more thoughts. Daydreams. I lost the access concentration. Then, around 20 minutes... The dullness phase came. Blurry vision. Difficulty noticing. The speed dropped. I was struggling against it. I noticed myself wanting to correct it. With discomfort and aversion. Confusion. Impatience. Impatience with the moment of difficulty in noting. Not seeing things clearly. My son woke up. Came into the living room. Making noise beside me. I noticed anger. Impatient. Well. Then... A pain started in my right ankle. I began to notice it. Look at it more broadly. Let it dissipate. It improved. But, as my expectation was low. I was impatient. Due to, now, the various situations that were happening. People in the house waking up. I couldn't master the ankle pain. It was coming and going. Low expectation that I would succeed. I went more with sheer determination. With effort, with persistence. Until it reached fifty minutes. And so, I closed the meditation. After fifty minutes, I stopped.

DAY 2024-05-20

​​​​​​​Today I meditated for an hour. I started by relaxing my body and calming my mind. Around 15 minutes in, the difficult phase began, with difficulty in noting. It peaked at 35 minutes, with many mini dreams. I decided to open my eyes and start noting with my eyes open because I was becoming less aware. I was probably 70% aware and 30% not. Many random images absorbed me, causing me to lose awareness. So, I decided to open my eyes and start noting. I then noticed a lot of difficulty in noting. I could only note bodily sensations. In terms of hearing and vision, I noted a lot of dullness and a desire to correct. At the same time, I looked and saw the difficulty, thinking it might be the dukkha nanas phase, so I accepted it. When I accepted it, the discomfort diminished, and I went back to observing bodily sensations. I stayed there, accepting, but then a desire to change the situation came. It seemed like the desire for liberation, the nana of the desire for liberation. And I remained like that until the end of the hour, unable to get out of that phase.

Include and accept whatever appears in this moment. As it is. If it is difficult let it be difficult. If it is dull then include the dullness. 

It is easy to accept and include when the mind is sharp but as perception becomes more diffuse we can lose the simplicity of this approach because it no longer feels as good to just sit. We think 'things are "bad" and so I must be doing something wrong'.... No one ever thinks 'things are bad, I must be doing something right' 

​​​​​​​But sometimes this is the case. 

All part of the process. Keep it up. 

That is very true.

Yes. I am increasingly certain of this, and I am more and more persistent in continuing.

Thank you, Bahiya!

DAY 2024-05-21

Today I couldn't practice. My wife and son were ill, and I had to help.

Sending best wishes to you and your family! May they heal fast! 

We're already getting better. Thank you!

DAY 2024-05-22

​​​​​​​Today I meditated for an hour. I started by trying to calm my mind, noting slowly, and trying to naturally increase the speed. But today, I didn't have strong concentration. It was more diffuse. My attention was more diffuse. Around 20 minutes in, I entered the phase of difficulty in noting. My attention became quite diffuse. A blurry image at the center of attention. I realized I was in the dullness phase. I accepted it and continued noting what was possible, with low expectations. But I was accepting it. I had few moments of noting emotions of confusion, emotions of anger. There were some, but they were few because I was accepting the moment more. I had moments of mini dreams, coming back from illusions of random images. I accepted them well. I was fine with low expectations of coming out of that phase. So, I stayed there, accepting, waiting for the moment to come out of that phase. Noting what was possible. I continued this way until the end. There were moments of more clarity, then it would go back to dullness. And it stayed like that. But overall, the acceptance was good. And I can say I had 80% awareness of what I was doing.

DAY 2024-05-23

Today I meditated for 40 minutes. I did only this because I was reading about the dissolution chapter by Daniel Ingram, from the book "MCTB" by Daniel Ingram. I related a lot to what he said at the beginning and end of the chapter. So, I started meditating in this context. I related a lot because much of what he talks about, which you have also mentioned, is a phase where I have difficulty noting. I try to note quickly, and it frustrates me, makes me nervous because I'm not able to see much, I can't note. There are days when I can perceive very well, with a lot of clarity in what I am seeing, but there are days when I can't. It's as if things either appear very quickly and I can't catch them, or because my attention is very diffuse. It makes a lot of sense that the center of my attention is diffuse, I can't look directly at an object of meditation. And today, based on this, I started with a lot of humility in the practice, I wasn't able to see much, and I accepted that, I had a lot of acceptance. So, I had many moments of patience, noting patience, contentment, humility. I could note more the bodily sensations, sounds, which are basic, we can note them, but due to the tranquility, I even had moments of pleasure. And there was a moment when I tried to force the noting, tried to increase the speed, and ended up noting frustration, noting anger, noting confusion. Then I slowed down, came back, and said, I'm not managing, I won't continue this way. I slowed down to noting by inspiration/expiration, and then I was calm, stayed there, managed to maintain myself. And with this, I also didn't have moments of mini-dreams, or drowsiness. There was a moment of seeing very blurry images, not being able to note, I expanded my attention, didn't stay focused, trying to focus on that, and it was good because I was relaxed, I noted patience, tranquility at that moment, sounds, bodily sensations, noted what there was to note, looked. So, despite the 40 minutes being less than I usually note, it was interesting for me to see that when I don't force it, I have more acceptance and can stay more present.