Ayya Khema talking about the feeling aggregate as self

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Nikolai , módosítva 13 év-val korábban at 2011.07.19. 14:32
Created 13 év ago at 2011.07.19. 14:31

Ayya Khema talking about the feeling aggregate as self

Bejegyzések: 1677 Csatlakozás dátuma: 2010.01.23. Legújabb bejegyzések
What is she pointing to?

(20:50): Since each one (feelings-pleasant, painful and neutral) disappears to give room to another one, could we then say that each time one disappears and gives rise to another one that the “me” has disappeared as certain entity and arises as new one? It never occurs to us to say a thing like that but that would be logical, wouldn't it?

So the pleasant feeling has disappeared so the pleasant “me” has gone, and now the painful feeling arises so we’ve got a painful “me”. And then that one goes away and a neutral feeling arises so we’ve got a neutral “me”. So we already have three “me’s” but that is not the end of it because we have 6 different sense contacts and we can have 3 different feelings in each of the sense contacts. = 18 “me”’s

(25:40): So when we have feeling as self, the Buddha takes those as his explanations not only that it (a feeling) is the three different kinds but also the arising and ceasing of it which has to be taken into account and because this is a very important aspect I’ve already told you, please look at the impermanence of the feelings which you have, of the sensations which you have and obviously of the thoughts which you have and then on the material basis the breath, but if we look at the impermanence of our own feelings and that we could do that as a more one-pointed impermanence object, we will see that there is nothing static, and it does not even continue, we are always led astray by the continuity of it all, the breath continues all the time and we think it’s always there, obviously it isn’t, it stops and starts something new so that is very, very misleading and also our body seems to be always there so that is also misleading us to thinking there is a solid entity.

But feelings are not always there, we always have to make contact first and we don’t always make contact. So particularly for instance when we sleep, we don’t make contact and there’s many occasions when feelings interrupt it and we need to have a look at that. And when it’s interrupted , the continuity being interrupted, it’s much easier to see that this is all just a mental formation to say this is “me”. There is an identity, an entity. Now people in general are afraid to let go of “me”. Why?

Almost like canceling a life insurance policy. But actually what one gets would be to save a lot of money and one would die at exactly at the same time with it or not. And here if we let go of this idea of “me”, we feel as if we are losing a security support, like a security blanket, but we've gone past that, haven’t we, we are a little more mature, we don’t really need a security blanket anymore.

Letting go of this idea of “me” is the greatest relief that anyone can experience , it is the greatest and most wonderful experience that anyone can ever have. It is the losing of the pressure, of that ..like a monkey sitting on one’s neck, constantly pushing one to either do this, to get that or to be this way or have that. Nothing, there is nobody there that’s got to be pushed.
And that enormous relief and release is our gateway to total liberation. So the fear of letting go is due to the fact, that first of all that one doesn’t know what one is going to get. It’s fear of the unknown. But it’s also this feeling of: "Well if I haven’t got that , what have I got?"

No! “I” could be in limbo but the non-“I” cannot be in limbo. That is the big difference. There is nobody to be in limbo. “I” of course, yes, but that is exactly what we are letting go of. So then this is feeling as self. It’s “me”, feelings. (29:35)


Do yourself a favour and listen to the whole 1:20 minute talk.

Considerations and Descriptions of Self: The Feeling Aggregate as Self: http://dharmaseed.org/talks/audio_player/334/7893.html
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Lorey L Hobbs, módosítva 13 év-val korábban at 2011.07.20. 12:44
Created 13 év ago at 2011.07.20. 12:44

RE: Ayya Khema talking about the feeling aggregate as self

Bejegyzések: 15 Csatlakozás dátuma: 2011.06.20. Legújabb bejegyzések
Listened to and saved. Her voice is soothing and easy to engage with the teaching. Thank you, and also for your synopsis.
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tom moylan, módosítva 13 év-val korábban at 2011.07.20. 14:28
Created 13 év ago at 2011.07.20. 14:28

RE: Ayya Khema talking about the feeling aggregate as self

Bejegyzések: 896 Csatlakozás dátuma: 2011.03.07. Legújabb bejegyzések
could be called "RT - the long way around"

good advice...good listen

thanks
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Nikolai , módosítva 13 év-val korábban at 2011.07.20. 16:28
Created 13 év ago at 2011.07.20. 16:09

RE: Ayya Khema talking about the feeling aggregate as self

Bejegyzések: 1677 Csatlakozás dátuma: 2010.01.23. Legújabb bejegyzések
tom moylan:
could be called "RT - the long way around"

good advice...good listen

thanks


The long way around?

I think RT can only take you as far as stream entry. The seeing through of a falsehood of self. But the sense of feeling of "me" is still arising as is all the flow of affective feeling. They are one and the same as far as I see it, as does Ayya Khema and the actualists. Even if you re-term the flow of affect "life-ing" or "life" or whatever and stop calling it "me", it still flows as a reactionary conditioned mess. You now know a "self" is illusory yet one can act like a selfish self is still there, acting out of anger, greed, and fear. Why is that? Correct me if I am wrong any RTers, but they all seem to profess that the flow of affect continues after their realisation.

MCTB 4th path ( Not the arahat of the pali canon) also only leaves you with "feelings" unsticky and the centre point dropped away, but still arising as more phenomena. I think Ayya Khema is talking about the real deal arahat where she points to it being free from all feelings, as feelings are "me". Even if you have seen through the illusion of a personal identity, there is still the flow of conditioned becoming (ie. affect) to end ...or not.

Ayya Khema was too cool for school. You can find more of her talks, which are highly recommended, and highly antimushroom, as she seems to insinuate all over the place that she was a highly advanced (possibly AF) yogi, here:

http://ayyakhematalks.org/


and

http://www.dharmaseed.org/teacher/334/

:-)
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Eric B, módosítva 13 év-val korábban at 2011.07.21. 10:04
Created 13 év ago at 2011.07.21. 10:04

RE: Ayya Khema talking about the feeling aggregate as self

Bejegyzések: 187 Csatlakozás dátuma: 2009.08.24. Legújabb bejegyzések
Those Ayya Khema talks are awesome, and there's a ton of them out there too. There are series of talks that encompass entire retreats which make gret serial listening via iPod.
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Lorey L Hobbs, módosítva 13 év-val korábban at 2011.07.21. 13:03
Created 13 év ago at 2011.07.21. 13:03

RE: Ayya Khema talking about the feeling aggregate as self

Bejegyzések: 15 Csatlakozás dátuma: 2011.06.20. Legújabb bejegyzések
I visited Ayya's site as well. Perhaps someone could add the web address to the Wiki so others can find when this thread is lost.
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tom moylan, módosítva 13 év-val korábban at 2011.07.25. 4:44
Created 13 év ago at 2011.07.25. 4:44

RE: Ayya Khema talking about the feeling aggregate as self

Bejegyzések: 896 Csatlakozás dátuma: 2011.03.07. Legújabb bejegyzések
hi hick,
i defer to you as to where the RT method lands one. my thoughts on it are that 'it depends'(bahiya sutta for example). for myself, who has no idea where i am within the path model, the realizations of the past several days applying RT have been effective when measured by my deepening meditation as well as some interesting of the mat experiences (perhaps EE or PCE)..dunno for sure. but...am i first path, don't think so...maybe though. still some things there which i'm habitually putting a "me", "mine", "myself" stamp on.

a term i stole from you,"non-sticky", has a deeper meaning for me now since my RT jaunt. during my sits, it seemed easier to stay on a perceptual wave without needing to apply labels to the experience. so thanks for the conceptual linguistic loan.

i didn't see the talks by Ayya Khema in the dharmaseed teacher pull-down but a search found her. ever grateful.

tom

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