Awakening

Jordan Wright, módosítva 1 év-val korábban at 2023.05.13. 13:55
Created 1 év ago at 2023.05.13. 13:55

Awakening

Bejegyzések: 14 Csatlakozás dátuma: 2023.05.06. Legújabb bejegyzések
Hello,

Tried to post before but I guess it didn't go through.  I was saying that my journey to awakening has been rough, to say the least.  Separate from just typical increases in sensitivity to subtle energies in myself and others, there's a lot of trauma to be worked through, physical, emotional, psychological.  I'm not as easily thrown off by the opinions of others, a lot less likely to take things so personally.  But for most of my life I honestly thought I had no value, and that I was unworthy of dignity, love, respect, or connection.  I thought the only way I could have these things was to be someone or something else.  So that's how I lived my life, creating different personas (or versions of my "self") to fit different scenarios or contexts.  Every success or failure to me was a further confirmation of my intrinsic worthlessness.  Really I was afraid to be seen as I really am, terrified of the real "me" being rejected.  It happened anyway, and it broke my heart all the same, but that taught me how ineffective of a strategy it was.  Also how disorienting and frightening of an existence it really is to be and feel as though you are separate from everything else.  Wandering endlessly seeking what lies within, because I refused to believe that the truth applied to my intrinsic "self".  Because the truth I had long ago accepted conceptually, and the truth of how I felt inside didn't match up.  The dissonance corroded my soul, and my mind turned against itself, waged war on itself.  No way to be sure, I just have seen visions of myself living basically entire lifetimes in caves, in secluded areas in the mountains, interacting with no one, meditating and pursuing "truth" or I guess a version of it I could accept.  Finding nothing, disappointment and emptiness, confusion and isolation, hopelessness.  Despair after despair, life and its creations changing and shifting, meaning so transient and never the same for long.  All that leading to me here, now, in the present.  There's still a lot about this experience of awakening that scares me, but being honest about the fact that I'm scared helps narrow my focus and better direct my efforts.  It helps me understand myself better too.  I know I'm not alone in feeling these things, and I have become aware of a peace that transcends all these waves of suffering.  But being an imperfect being as I am, I'm willing to forgive myself.  Even if im just saying that, and I don't really at this point know how to do that.  Everything in life is a process.
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Ni Nurta, módosítva 1 év-val korábban at 2023.05.13. 16:56
Created 1 év ago at 2023.05.13. 16:56

RE: Awakening

Bejegyzések: 1144 Csatlakozás dátuma: 2020.02.22. Legújabb bejegyzések
Did your awakening help you figure out you have just spend (what sounds like) many years of your life making big fuss about some pleasant experience which you have mistaken for something telling you you are worthless?

Or is this just another one of these solutions which helps you interpret pleasant experience as different pleasant experience eg. called "relief" though different experience of emptiness/nothingness/etc (something to do with non-experience basically) which you think you need to use to not experience suffering even if this suffering is only caused by thinking pleasant experience is something else? emoticon
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Jordan Wright, módosítva 1 év-val korábban at 2023.05.13. 17:28
Created 1 év ago at 2023.05.13. 17:28

RE: Awakening

Bejegyzések: 14 Csatlakozás dátuma: 2023.05.06. Legújabb bejegyzések
Hi there, so it's a little difficult based on what you wrote for me to respond because I'm not sure what you're asking haha.  Maybe you could rephrase or ask again in a different way so I can better respond.  But you did mention something that was interesting about not having to experience suffering.  Perhaps you could go into that more, but from a Buddhist perspective I don't think it's possible for anyone to not suffer at all, that goes back to the first noble truth.  
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Conal, módosítva 1 év-val korábban at 2023.05.14. 7:05
Created 1 év ago at 2023.05.14. 7:05

RE: Awakening

Bejegyzések: 63 Csatlakozás dátuma: 2017.06.03. Legújabb bejegyzések
Jordan Wright
from a Buddhist perspective I don't think it's possible for anyone to not suffer at all, that goes back to the first noble truth.  


Of course it is. Please read the fourth noble truth!
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Dream Walker, módosítva 1 év-val korábban at 2023.05.14. 7:21
Created 1 év ago at 2023.05.14. 7:21

RE: Awakening

Bejegyzések: 1729 Csatlakozás dátuma: 2012.01.18. Legújabb bejegyzések
Conal
Jordan Wright
from a Buddhist perspective I don't think it's possible for anyone to not suffer at all, that goes back to the first noble truth.  
Of course it is. Please read the fourth noble truth!
In what language and with what translation? 
Does dukkha = English translation of "suffering"?
Or perhaps "Stress"?
Of course if you have completed the path and are speaking from direct experience, please forgive me for my invitation to investigate this for yourself.
Good Luck,
~D
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Conal, módosítva 1 év-val korábban at 2023.05.14. 7:58
Created 1 év ago at 2023.05.14. 7:57

RE: Awakening

Bejegyzések: 63 Csatlakozás dátuma: 2017.06.03. Legújabb bejegyzések
Hi Dreamwalker,

I've only read them in English and most translations are pretty much the same.  I perhaps should have written "please read the third and fourth noble truths" though!  I can't claim to have completed the path, if by that you mean full enlightenment,  but I've attained sottapanna, which gives you certainty on the dharma.

I think you are right to query whether or not "suffering" is the best translation for dukkha though.  I would plumb for "doesn't satisfy" or "is unsatisfactory".  Also I would caveat that there is a difference between dukkha and pain.  The body will always send pain signals if you abuse it, but the fully enlightened person will only experience that pain once and won't have any mental suffering or after-effects as a consequence of it.  This is because there is no ego left to give a home for the suffering and therefore it just passes through without leaving a trace.  The mental component is the "second arrow" that the Buddha refers to.

Conal
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Dream Walker, módosítva 1 év-val korábban at 2023.05.14. 8:34
Created 1 év ago at 2023.05.14. 8:34

RE: Awakening

Bejegyzések: 1729 Csatlakozás dátuma: 2012.01.18. Legújabb bejegyzések
Conal
Hi Dreamwalker,
Hi Conal (waves)

I've only read them in English and most translations are pretty much the same.  I perhaps should have written "please read the third and fourth noble truths" though!  I can't claim to have completed the path, if by that you mean full enlightenment,  but I've attained sottapanna, which gives you certainty on the dharma.
It certainly smells of certainty.
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts."  - Bertrand Russell

I think you are right to query whether or not "suffering" is the best translation for dukkha though.  I would plumb for "doesn't satisfy" or "is unsatisfactory".  Also I would caveat that there is a difference between dukkha and pain.  The body will always send pain signals if you abuse it, but the fully enlightened person will only experience that pain once and won't have any mental suffering or after-effects as a consequence of it.  This is because there is no ego left to give a home for the suffering and therefore it just passes through without leaving a trace.  The mental component is the "second arrow" that the Buddha refers to.

Conal
Good reply,
Pain is pain, the additional add ons are transformed as awakenings continue to change the "selfing processes". My direct experience of shingles pain, to the point of crying out loud, really sucked, but when each wave stopped I had much less residual "stress" around it. Of course I still have a way to go to whatever "full awakening/enlightened" is.
Good Luck,
​​​​​​​~D
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Conal, módosítva 1 év-val korábban at 2023.05.14. 10:06
Created 1 év ago at 2023.05.14. 10:06

RE: Awakening

Bejegyzések: 63 Csatlakozás dátuma: 2017.06.03. Legújabb bejegyzések
My direct experience of shingles pain, to the point of crying out loud, really sucked, but when each wave stopped I had much less residual "stress" around it. 

Yes, that's right. Well done. By staying with it, you experienced it fully and didn't create any stories about how it was ruining your life etc.

Good luck to you too.

​​​​​​​Conal
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Robert L, módosítva 1 év-val korábban at 2023.05.14. 6:00
Created 1 év ago at 2023.05.14. 6:00

RE: Awakening

Bejegyzések: 71 Csatlakozás dátuma: 2019.02.10. Legújabb bejegyzések
What is doing the suffering? Is the Jordan that is suffering really what you are? Jordan will suffer and be seperate. But Jordan is impermanent and an illusion fabricated from the "mind". You fabricate the ego. It is just a concept created moment to moment. A thought, no different than, "I am hungry." "I am suffering." "I am a body." "I see the world through these eyes" "I feel hopeless." "Life is despair.""There is a boundary between me and the world"
All just thoughts! You are not your thoughts. You do not have to believe them. Suffering just pops up in the empty mysterious space that you are, just like everything else. You can grasp at it, reflect on it, create an ever building feedback loop of negative thought. Or you can note it equanimously, let it just be, then note it as it passes away. Like an unexpected friend that stopped by without calling first.  Because what you really are is not effected by it. You are not Jordan. You are not a body seperate from everything you experience. You are not the thinker of your thoughts. There is no thinker. 
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Dream Walker, módosítva 1 év-val korábban at 2023.05.14. 6:21
Created 1 év ago at 2023.05.14. 6:21

RE: Awakening

Bejegyzések: 1729 Csatlakozás dátuma: 2012.01.18. Legújabb bejegyzések
Jordan Wright
Hi, Welcome to the Dho
I was saying that my journey to awakening has been rough, to say the least.
Just one "awakening"? How might have you done that and what does that mean?
Separate from just typical increases in sensitivity to subtle energies in myself and others, there's a lot of trauma to be worked through, physical, emotional, psychological.
Subtle energies? What might that be?
I'm not as easily thrown off by the opinions of others, a lot less likely to take things so personally.  
But for most of my life I honestly thought I had no value, and that I was unworthy of dignity, love, respect, or connection.  I thought the only way I could have these things was to be someone or something else.  So that's how I lived my life, creating different personas (or versions of my "self") to fit different scenarios or contexts.  Every success or failure to me was a further confirmation of my intrinsic worthlessness.  Really I was afraid to be seen as I really am, terrified of the real "me" being rejected.  It happened anyway, and it broke my heart all the same, but that taught me how ineffective of a strategy it was.
I would recommend therapy, especially one that focuses on attachment theories.
There's still a lot about this experience of awakening that scares me
Maybe you could explain that. 
I know I'm not alone in feeling these things, and I have become aware of a peace that transcends all these waves of suffering.  But being an imperfect being as I am, I'm willing to forgive myself.  Even if im just saying that, and I don't really at this point know how to do that.  Everything in life is a process.
Meditation, if thats what you did, (no idea since you are vague about everything you wrote) does not solve all problems. The many awakenings that happen does not automatically fix you. There are different axis of development and therapy is a great start to figure out what needs to develop next, unless you consider yourself perfect for some reason.
Good Luck,
​​​​​​​~D
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Jordan Wright, módosítva 1 év-val korábban at 2023.05.14. 10:25
Created 1 év ago at 2023.05.14. 10:25

RE: Awakening

Bejegyzések: 14 Csatlakozás dátuma: 2023.05.06. Legújabb bejegyzések
Hey guys, I woke up to a lot of comments which is exciting haha.  I don't think I am perfect, and I post on here to learn more and share my personal experiences.  A lot of harm can come from making hasty assumptions, so it's important to ask questions and communicate respectfully as you all have done.  Hard to respond all at once but I'll give it my best shot.  The ego is the small contracted mind, and "Jordan" is or I guess was an identity that I have had since birth that I held strongly to throughout my childhood, especially before finding Buddhism, but throughout most of my young adult life as well (I'm 26).  In terms of being vague, I kinda do that on purpose because I find I can cover a lot more in less words, and if someone wanted to know something specific they could just ask haha.  In terms of the noble truths, I'm aware of all four, and clarification could help I suppose on what I meant.  Because the first noble truth tells us that life contains (necessarily) a certain amount of suffering, what the rest of the noble truths tell us is that a significant amount of it can be overcome (it can be greatly reduced) and the way leading to that reduction (the noble eightfold path).  They also show us the cause of our suffering, which is "clinging".  I like to think of clinging as resistance, or wishing things to stay the same or be different, just my interpretation and it helps me.  "Subtle energies" I suppose could mean many things, but I meant it in the form of primarily passive aggressiveness or microaggressions that people manifest, though they may not always be aware of this (I'm guilty of it too lol).  Therapy is definitely super important, I've been many times and am currently seeking therapy, but due to problems with insurance it's a bit of a struggle right now (everything is a process).  I probably didn't answer all of your questions, so feel free to ask more and I'll do my best to answer them thoughtfully.  
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