Monk of the Month - Discussion
Monk of the Month
tom moylan, módosítva 9 év-val korábban at 2015.10.15. 10:14
Created 9 év ago at 2015.10.15. 10:14
Monk of the Month
Bejegyzések: 896 Csatlakozás dátuma: 2011.03.07. Legújabb bejegyzések
my current favorite is Ajahn Sucitto.
here's a talk of his on nibanna:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wH1yXhJOybc
here's a talk of his on nibanna:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wH1yXhJOybc
Eva Nie, módosítva 9 év-val korábban at 2015.10.15. 15:55
Created 9 év ago at 2015.10.15. 15:55
Getting everything you want and RE: Monk of the Month
Bejegyzések: 831 Csatlakozás dátuma: 2014.03.23. Legújabb bejegyzések
Ah interesting! I didn't really understand much about the whole earth, fire, water, wind thing before. But seems to me, if you start looking at the world as made of these 4 characterics only, that leaves little room for our habitual drama. It all becomes just one of the four aspects and that perspective shift would, if realized, cut off at the knees a lot of the the usual clinging, the mind does not jump towards clinging to 'earth' like it would the concept of to a new car. An argument looks far differnet if it is looked at as just wind and water. To take the new perspective, you would have to let go of the old. Similarly, IMO, to look at the world from the perspective of the 3Cs, it's hard to get too worked up over the boss's crabby attitude if you believe the world and the self is not really there anyway. That's the pattern I see. Both beliefs ask you to adopt a new belief system that severely undermines clinging and drama.
I also like how he frames nibbana as letting go, the more you let go, the more nibbana you have, very simple and easy to understand and avoids making it sound mystical or overly difficult. What are you letting go of? I guess it's clinging, which is the opposite of letting go.
From my perspective, it occurs to me the nibbana is sometimes described as getting everything you want and I would argue that getting everything you want leads to nibbana. But in order to do that, in order to get everything you want, since wants tend to breed like rabbits such that the more wants you achieve, the faster they breed, the only way to get all that you want is to severely curtail the breeding of wants and cut the wants to a very manageable and limited amount and stop breeding them. The less wants, the easier to achieve them and the more nibbana, seems to me. Could it be that any thought/belief system that heavily undermines growth and breeding of wants could lead to nibbana? I don't see why not..
-Eva
I also like how he frames nibbana as letting go, the more you let go, the more nibbana you have, very simple and easy to understand and avoids making it sound mystical or overly difficult. What are you letting go of? I guess it's clinging, which is the opposite of letting go.
From my perspective, it occurs to me the nibbana is sometimes described as getting everything you want and I would argue that getting everything you want leads to nibbana. But in order to do that, in order to get everything you want, since wants tend to breed like rabbits such that the more wants you achieve, the faster they breed, the only way to get all that you want is to severely curtail the breeding of wants and cut the wants to a very manageable and limited amount and stop breeding them. The less wants, the easier to achieve them and the more nibbana, seems to me. Could it be that any thought/belief system that heavily undermines growth and breeding of wants could lead to nibbana? I don't see why not..
-Eva
tom moylan, módosítva 9 év-val korábban at 2015.10.16. 4:38
Created 9 év ago at 2015.10.16. 4:36
RE: Getting everything you want and RE: Monk of the Month
Bejegyzések: 896 Csatlakozás dátuma: 2011.03.07. Legújabb bejegyzések
Hi Eva,
some good points methinks. lots of the practices are meant to do exactly what you describe...to stop the proliferating mind in its tracks. we are constantly living on the conceptual level where a tree is a tree and a forest is a forest...when we look at practice in the framework of the "elements" as he suggests in this talk, or on the 5 aggregates of clinging etc. we are focusing more and more on a different part of the wave of experience. the mind doesn't do its 'automatic run' through the five aggregate to dwell on the knowing, we focus on the form or the feeling or the perception and cut off the proliferation right there.
and yeah...cutting off the root of clinging is the way, overindulgence just burns those habitual tendencies deeper into our plastic brains.
taking the 3Cs as object does exactly the same thing..we're not getting caught up in the marks and signs of each object and using those as platforms for further conceptual jumps but rather staying at the lower level of pre conceptual though and surfing the commonalities of whatever arises.
i also like the quote, "let go a little, you will be a little enlightened. let go a lot and you will be more enlightened. let go completely and you will be completely enlightened." ...whether its true or not.
cheers
some good points methinks. lots of the practices are meant to do exactly what you describe...to stop the proliferating mind in its tracks. we are constantly living on the conceptual level where a tree is a tree and a forest is a forest...when we look at practice in the framework of the "elements" as he suggests in this talk, or on the 5 aggregates of clinging etc. we are focusing more and more on a different part of the wave of experience. the mind doesn't do its 'automatic run' through the five aggregate to dwell on the knowing, we focus on the form or the feeling or the perception and cut off the proliferation right there.
and yeah...cutting off the root of clinging is the way, overindulgence just burns those habitual tendencies deeper into our plastic brains.
taking the 3Cs as object does exactly the same thing..we're not getting caught up in the marks and signs of each object and using those as platforms for further conceptual jumps but rather staying at the lower level of pre conceptual though and surfing the commonalities of whatever arises.
i also like the quote, "let go a little, you will be a little enlightened. let go a lot and you will be more enlightened. let go completely and you will be completely enlightened." ...whether its true or not.
cheers
Eva Nie, módosítva 9 év-val korábban at 2015.10.16. 13:24
Created 9 év ago at 2015.10.16. 13:24
RE: Getting everything you want and RE: Monk of the Month
Bejegyzések: 831 Csatlakozás dátuma: 2014.03.23. Legújabb bejegyzésektom moylan:
and yeah...cutting off the root of clinging is the way, overindulgence just burns those habitual tendencies deeper into our plastic brains.
However, I don't think it's 100% the case, there have been times when I've gotten over cravings and habits by indulging until I got sick of it. Unhealthy food types have sometimes worked that way. But it doesn't always work and it won't if one tends to just replace that satiated want with a new batch of wants. I guess you just have to observe self and see what works for you. Also, I think it bears in mind that just not doing something all by itself via self control does not always work to alleviate wants, certainly one can refrain from something but still crave it long term and pine about not having it, etc. I have known people who refrain but seem to still crave it inside for long periods and feel fear of lack of restraint in the future because that craving is still there. So self control is not always enough, sometimes it requires deliberate paradigm and attitude shift if such does not occur on its own.
Anyway, these concepts continue to intrigue me the more I think about them. What is the difference between those that practice hard on the cushion and make it through the paths vs those that practice hard and don't? It's the question of the ages in Buddhism I think. But what I see is that some are more clinging to their old way of thinking than others. I tended to do this a lot too, basically you want the benefits of all that good feeling and progress, but you don't want to give up the old ways of thinking so there is a battle inside self between pressure to let go and desire to not let go of wants, habits, old beliefs etc. People want to have one foot in each world and somehow succeed in both.
IMO, you can sit millions of hours on the pillow but if you won't let go of sticky wants and beliefs during the rest of your day, then you will not be able to progress far on the paths. To let go, you can use psychology or logic or new belief systems, whatever it takes, they will all work but some are probably better suited to certain cultures and upbringings than others. In America, getting people to believe in stuff that sounds like fairy tales is often hard because we are brought up with antibeliefs in those so other ways may be easier for us. It's hard to get people to believe in something they were trained against since birth, easier if the new paradigm is less incompatible with childhood training like in America, ideas framed in logic, science, etc are more easily tolerated.
Now if I look at methods that seem to have at least some efficacy, they all seem to address the lessoning of wanting, mindfulness is learning to be satisfied and happy with the now, similar in that vein to Actualism. The various belief systems of Buddhism train us to reframe our concepts of reality and help to undermine wanting. Gratitude is another one that is big in new age circles, practice being happy with and appreciating what you have, which is contrary to wanting. I dont think it will work all by itself as a stand alone method, but I can see why it might help a bit. Even in the Christianity (of which I don't really know much I admit), I can see shades of it like A Psalm of David. The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want. This is often translated as 'to lack nothing' but I think to 'not want' may be closer to the intended point. In the Jesus stories, there is strong emphasis on leading a simple life and not craving more, letting go of all the fancy stuff, etc
I suspect part of the reason it's hard though, at least from my own experience, is that I had such a huge pile of wants and cravings that even if I managed to let go of one or a few of them, it was just one small pebble from the mound. I had so many things I wanted strongly, things I wanted to change about myself, how I looked, how I acted, my skill sets, things I wore, people I knew, self control, levels of success at various things, significant other, income, assets, abilities, so many things I craved strongly, not just at the mere preference level but such that there was strong emotion attached to each one. That if I gave up a few of them, it's wasn't much compared to the giant pile of ones still remaining, and the measure of relief I got was equally small compared to my overall stress level that it was hard to easily perceive.
It wasn't until I got down towards the bottom of the pile that I started to see some major good feelings and relief. Before that, it was a slow slogging road with much work compared to relief gained. With so much to get through, I would imagine a paradigm shift that will undermine a lot of the wanting in a big sweep is going to be much more efficient to lighten the load, IMO, whatever paradigm shift that may be for each individual. I think people are going to have to be capable and/or willing somehow to accept paradigm shift in day to day living in order to make good progress on the paths. That's going to mean not just studying new ways of thinking but also letting go of old ways of thinking, clinging, and habits. It's not going to work to just give lip service to the new way or try to let them live side by side without giving up the old. One will have to eventually jump in with both feet, it seems to me.
-Eva
Psi, módosítva 9 év-val korábban at 2015.10.16. 14:44
Created 9 év ago at 2015.10.16. 14:44
RE: Getting everything you want and RE: Monk of the Month
Bejegyzések: 1099 Csatlakozás dátuma: 2013.11.22. Legújabb bejegyzésekEva M Nie:
Ah interesting! earth, fire, water, wind .
And, very interesting indeed, Matter, Energy, Liquid, Gas.
I changed the fire, water, air, earth, to see how it would read,
5. The Reflection on the Material Elements And further, monks, a monk reflects on this very body, however it be placed or disposed, by way of the material elements: "There are in this body the element of matter, the element of liquid, the element of energy, the element of gas."[11]Just as if, monks, a clever cow-butcher or his apprentice, having slaughtered a cow and divided it into portions, should be sitting at the junction of four high roads, in the same way, a monk reflects on this very body, as it is placed or disposed, by way of the material elements: "There are in this body the elements of matter, liquid, energy, and gas."
In traditional Buddhism, It is translated little differently from the above spin I put on it though,
The so-called 'elements' are the primary qualities of matter, explained by Buddhist tradition as solidity (earth), adhesion (water), caloricity (fire) and motion (wind or air).
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/nyanasatta/wheel019.html#found
Psi
Eva Nie, módosítva 9 év-val korábban at 2015.10.16. 23:49
Created 9 év ago at 2015.10.16. 23:49
RE: Getting everything you want and RE: Monk of the Month
Bejegyzések: 831 Csatlakozás dátuma: 2014.03.23. Legújabb bejegyzésekEva M Nie :
The less wants, the easier to achieve them and the more nibbana, seems to me. Could it be that any thought/belief system that heavily undermines growth and breeding of wants could lead to nibbana? I don't see why not..
-Eva
-Eva
-Eva
tom moylan, módosítva 9 év-val korábban at 2015.10.17. 13:26
Created 9 év ago at 2015.10.17. 13:26
RE: Getting everything you want and RE: Monk of the Month
Bejegyzések: 896 Csatlakozás dátuma: 2011.03.07. Legújabb bejegyzések
howdy all,
mixing up the terms and retranslating can be interesting and valuable. i like it. i see the value in the elemental practices or framework in the fact that it describes the world we experience. long before newton einstein pasteur... al had their scientific say, the old guys boiled down the entire maelstrom of our world into patterns that anyone with an ass and a soft place to sit could investigate for themselves. no microscope needed.
eva..if thats you talking to yourself you have a pretty good audience. :-)
mixing up the terms and retranslating can be interesting and valuable. i like it. i see the value in the elemental practices or framework in the fact that it describes the world we experience. long before newton einstein pasteur... al had their scientific say, the old guys boiled down the entire maelstrom of our world into patterns that anyone with an ass and a soft place to sit could investigate for themselves. no microscope needed.
eva..if thats you talking to yourself you have a pretty good audience. :-)
Psi, módosítva 9 év-val korábban at 2015.10.17. 23:40
Created 9 év ago at 2015.10.17. 23:40
RE: Monk of the Month
Bejegyzések: 1099 Csatlakozás dátuma: 2013.11.22. Legújabb bejegyzésektom moylan:
my current favorite is Ajahn Sucitto.
here's a talk of his on nibanna:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wH1yXhJOybc
here's a talk of his on nibanna:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wH1yXhJOybc
Ajahn Sucitto has a pretty good book, I have not finished it off yet, but have not found anything he has said to be in any disagreement with the way things are. He has a good practical way of explaining stuff.
http://smile.amazon.com/Turning-Wheel-Truth-Commentary-Teaching/dp/159030764X/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1445142566&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=ajahn+succito
Psi
tom moylan, módosítva 9 év-val korábban at 2015.10.26. 5:25
Created 9 év ago at 2015.10.26. 5:25
RE: Monk of the Month
Bejegyzések: 896 Csatlakozás dátuma: 2011.03.07. Legújabb bejegyzésektom moylan, módosítva 9 év-val korábban at 2015.10.26. 7:42
Created 9 év ago at 2015.10.26. 7:42
RE: Monk of the Month
Bejegyzések: 896 Csatlakozás dátuma: 2011.03.07. Legújabb bejegyzések
...another fine talk by the Monk O the Month:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdKPd19b_Is
his approach is to talk about the energetic nature of sankaras which i resonate with.
as a bonus i was boning up on "formations" which he touches on in the talk and like the wiki take more than i expected i would.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sa%E1%B9%85kh%C4%81ra
tom
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdKPd19b_Is
his approach is to talk about the energetic nature of sankaras which i resonate with.
as a bonus i was boning up on "formations" which he touches on in the talk and like the wiki take more than i expected i would.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sa%E1%B9%85kh%C4%81ra
tom