Tumbled into a work burnout after not having the practice to shore me up. I healed and picked up sitting again recent
​​ly.​​​

Allis A.
Ah so the bouncing back is a characteristic of A&P, that makes sense.

Reading MCTB once again on the A&P stage, I noticed a passage I had missed earlier. It talks about the ambitious and overzealous nature of those coming out of A&P, being able to philosophise rings around someone, and wanting to join a monastery. That rings very true for me quite some years ago. I think I may conclude A&P has indeed been crossed, even though I don't remember any spectacular things.

And I have to conclude it was crossed without knowing what I was doing really, because it may have happened shortly before I found practice, and made me gravitate towards it because of it, or shortly after, without even knowing this could be a side effect.

Thanks also for bringing to my attention that I have doubts which may be a characteristic. I hadn't noticed this. Maybe you are right.

If I couple this with the above knowledge, I probably have been in Dark Night territory for a long time. A disconcertingly long time.

It may explain lots of things that don't seem related but may after all be related. Who knows. Like my invariably uncheery natured personality, though I am trying. Like questioning my gender identity, which may be a result of spiritual practice where 'me' became a fluid thing, as much as it was an uncovering of what was already there. Chronic pain that only recently turned out to have a mental cause. Especially: a growing sense of 'why the hell am I doing this anyway', the most recent years, culminating in my last retreat feeling disenchanted with the whole thing. I didn't return to retreats again after that one, because coincidentally the organisation collapsed. And through my anger and disgust over that I didn't sit for years. With literal nausea when looking at my cusion.

Would it be possible that nausea with cushion could be the 8th jhana of disgust?

If only I could have gotten myself to keep sitting, it could possibly have saved me a lot of trouble. I knew the jhanas and maps, and even I messed the Dark Night up. Sobering knowledge.

Any of you heard of gender identity questioning possibly being a part of the Dark Night identity crisis?

T DC
 IMO diagnosing exactly where you're at is sometimes less important than finding clear inspiration and direction to move foreward with practice.

shargrol
to the OP, you might like this thread too: A&P to 1st path in 1 retreat - Discussion - www.dharmaoverground.org

T DC
To piggy back on what others have said, the A/P does not occur as a mindblowing-manic-fireworks type event for all people, it could be as minor as a simple insight from which we move into a deeper and more commited phase of our practice. Even with an experience as profound as Stream Entry, I have heard people describe incredibly similar events but chalk them up to a pleasant purification type experience in meditation or a gradually fading non-dual experience.

Of course, not every odd experience is the A/P or stream entry, but for people with dedicated meditation practices of 10+ or even 5+ years, they are probably relatively more common than not.  And if you go through it without prior knowledge of the territory, it seems to be harder recognise as obvious progression.  So it's possible you're farther along than you think.

As far as being stuck in the dark night - a lack of direction in practice after 10+ years and the dissoloution of your sanga could also be contributing to your overall challenging feelings around practice.  And re questioning gender identify - in my experience, progression on the path tends to break down our fixed conceptual ways of viewing ourselves and the world and can definately lead to a more open and fluid experience of gender indentity.

Hope that helps a little!  IMO diagnosing exactly where you're at is sometimes less important than finding clear inspiration and direction to move foreward with practice.

Daniel M. Ingram
Yes, as Bill Hamilton said something like, and Kenneth could probably correct me on the exact wording, "Sometimes the A&P is like an explosion, and sometimes it is like a fart," meaning that sometimes it is really dramatic, and sometimes it is barely noticeable, non-spectacular, short, mild, etc., as I describe in that chapter with one that lasted barely a and was just a mild zip through my spine without anything else that interesting around it beyond a very brief preceding period of clear inquiry into this side and that side, subject and object.

Yes, I know some people who have done many years of retreats and somehow never got to any significant level of insight and, despite super careful questioning, don't describe anything like the A&P, and it is possible that they somehow haven't crossed it, or that, if they did, it was some super-mild, sub-clinical version that somehow just left them inspired to practice but with little else in the way of benefits or fireworks. 

Also, while maps can be helpful, don't take them too seriously, as they are imperfect things.

Best wishes, and practice well,

​​​​​​​Daniel