Hi dear friends and all of you im yet to get to know  

Ive gone for a while and moved over to the Awake Network forum where I've got friendly help. Shargrol was and still is very much keeping eye on me, which I appreciate tremendously! If I win lottery I will make sure to send him 5% of my winning! (try and haggle for better offer) 

So ... now practicing something I call S-meditation aka structured meditation. It was suggested to me by Shargrol and goes like this;

10 minutes mantra
20 minutes noting/noticing
10 minutes radical allowing
then a few minutes spend to return to the usual stuff and log. 

Life is still spiralling around minding the infant who still needs huge amounts of diaper change and making sure it's fed enough, drank enough water and milk, is dressed well, was outside, didn't choke on number of things ... etc ... 

after a year of being a father at home minding our 2nd born, I'm now back to searching for a job. No luck so far. But I keep applying and they can keep refusing. Just applied for a new job. 

as far as Dukkha goes ... it's anxiety filled, unpleasant annoyance with sounds, children shouting and screaming , overwhelm ... I can't even get satisfaction from playing my guitars. It's a DN flavour for sure.

Will try and log here but my main logging is over at the AN forum. 
Depending on free time I guess.

​​​​​​​May we all be free from suffering. May we all awaken. May we all be happy.  

Welcome back here, Papa Che!
I'm happy you made the move...
Cheers
​​​​​​​smiling stone

Grazie mille my friend!  
Glad to be here once again! 

aloha
​​​​​​​!

)smile(


no worries, there's an end to diapers, kids grow up

little puppies transcend newspaper


on the other hand, there's no end to shit...

Hi Terry me matey! Good to see you kicking about! 

So true! Shit never seems to cease! It's utterly ambitious!  

I hope your dog didn't eat up your Ukulele!

So good to see you posting, Papa!

Good to see ya!

Child tip - as I called it - Daddies little helper--->

L-Theanine

Get some and test drive it....It halted intfincide several times ;oP

​​​​​​​~D

Thanks Martin! Good to be here mate! 

Thanks LJ  

Yes it can get dark and ugly but it also does pass away at one point. It's always darkest before tha dawn!  

Wishing your situation to unfold in a way that's of most benefit to you! 

​​​​​​​Best wishes LJ! 

uke and dog are like kids and guitars

easier to ignore the guitar/uke


so the dog gets the exercise


on the other hand, at two years old she's practically an adult

(kids are easier to raise than husky puppies, but the puppies are likely to turn out better)


a shepsky, I like to say she's a hapa haole - half siberian and half german

looks like a malemute

70 lbs of muscle, teeth and claws

my guardian angel/daimon/alter ego


and as far as kids go, is it success if your kids don't suffer enough?

Thanks D! 

I can relate  

Never tried L-theanine as such. I will look it up! 

However I did go back to SSRI meds and it took away the worst edge. I also started with evening red wine (drink it as a red wine spritzer to reduce the strength of alcohol). 

but yeah, having kids is more stress times than good times I now understand why my parents gave me away! Wonder if they took L-theanine, would they have kept me?  

​​​​​​​Thanks once more and best wishes to you! 

40 minutes sitting S-meditation. Open eyes. Aloud. 

10 minutes White Tara mantra while eyes gently gazing on a screw head in the wall in front of me. 
20 minutes slow pace noting aloud. 
10 minutes radical allowing. 
a few minutes just come back to the room I sit in. Reflect and write down 2 memories from the sit (as instructed by shargrol). 

2 memories: 

1. as soon the mantra started there was that feeling of sinking into mind-body. Heavy body. Light coloured hazy image space. All in just there. Tiny vibrations in arms and hands/fingers. High pitch Nada sound with low rumble under it. Stiff left side of neck and under the shoulder blade. Body twitching every so often in the neck-arms region. 

2. had a vision of my mother dead in a coffin. She is alive however. But I let it unfold. I felt sad. But also a relief. Now she was for real gone out of my life. She is now the absentee mother for a reason if death of not being there any longer. Sad but also a relief. I did miss my mother a lot during my early childhood all the way into my early teens. 

extra memory; 
when stuff unpleasant arises, there is also a question arising "is this really happening? Is this the only thing happening? Is this really going on and on through the sense of time? Am I really suffering? Is this really permanent and unavoidable?" So I looked and it wasn't there. There was memory about it. There was this sense of an urge to re-cling to it. But there was so much more happening right here and that unpleasant thing was just a tiny jerk in the one field that doesn't need to continue. This unpleasant clinging must have this trance like believing in it to feel real and proliferate. It seems there might be a choice in here after all. Not that I can choose what arises within the senses but once there is holding onto a hot coal there is choice to hold onto it or let go of it. 
Is this the "continuation-ending" you spoke about shargrol? I certainly can sense such reflecting starting to arise at this time. 

pcd said:

2. had a vision of my mother dead in a coffin. She is alive however. But I let it unfold. I felt sad. But also a relief. Now she was for real gone out of my life. She is now the absentee mother for a reason if death of not being there any longer. Sad but also a relief. I did miss my mother a lot during my early childhood all the way into my early teens. 


++++++++++++++++

Sometimes a cigar is a penis.


The world as a habitable planet has expired already, it is lying in its coffin and it is more than a little ripe.

There is the smell of a dead elephant in the room. The knowledge makes us anxious but we repress it, don't face it, and it surfaces in dreams.

On the other hand, the corpse of god (the father) has already ossified and hardly smells at all anymore. One can make ornaments of the fossilized remains.


Never take symbol for allegory.
========



And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions

40 minutes sitting S-meditation. Open eyes. Aloud. 

2 memories: 

1. stiff pain under left shoulder blade and left neck. Body twitching approximately every 8-10 seconds. Arms and legs with lots of mild pins and needles. Sense of insects biting skin. A few sharp itches. Image space was hazy but evenly and light in colour (note; at one stage closed the eyes and there was lots of murk and purple haze there but not with open eyes). Thinking about this stage having 3C's flavour. 

2. During the radical allowing there was ill will towards something and then ill will towards feeling ill will. Then guilt , then shame. Then reflecting on this. 

Hey Papa Che!

Great to see you back here! Sending good wishes for your practice!

​​​​​​​Niels

Hi Niels and thank you! 
Hope all is well in your life! 

40 minutes walking S-meditation. Aloud. 

2 memories: 

1. head/mind feels like a wast pot of popping popcorn. 

2. "how does it feel not to be in control of thisness?"

"don't know, fearful"

"ok friend"

"will I be loved if I stop chameleoning and shapeshifting so to make sure I'm loved and liked by others?"

"and?"

"don't know". 

"ok friend"

Hey DM! Just got the L-Theanine 400mg capsules. How much do you take per day and when is it best to take it? Morning or evening? Thank you! 

If you have the time give this video a listen. I'm sure most of us have heard about Gabor Mate through his psychological and spiritual work but I never knew he was a holocaust baby survivor. This video is about him sharing his view on the Palestine-Jerusalem issue. 
https://youtu.be/N6_GDDa4bmI?si=eCNlzQw6Jk8n8NJ4

Hi Papa che.It's nice to see other people talk about their lives on here.

Best of luck with the job search and I'm sending warmth to you and your newborn.

Interesting to see L Theanine mentioned... It only worked the first time I took it and got a permanent tolerance. But It worked amazing... I'd also add Lavendar oil to the list. You have to INGEST 5 to 7 drops. It stops physical anxiety in its tracks. But it's safer to encapsulate it and eat with a meal I assume, due to essential oils being possibly harmful to the bare skin of your mouth. The meal will help absorb the oil.

+1 for L-Theanine. I take 400mg before bed along with 400mg of chelated high-absorption Magnesium. In addition to the mood benefits this combo is giving me really good quality sleep.

L-Thenanine is the amino acid that's in matcha and green tea that supposedly makes people still feel chill even though it's caffeinated... versus the jittery edge coffee has. I can't do coffee because it jacks me up way too much. Even caffeinated tea bothers me these days, so getting the L-Theanine benefit on its own in capsule form has been nice.

Hi Steph!

Yes it does seem to smooth out certain stuff associated with anxiety. 

Im still taking the SSRI and this L-Theanine works well with it I think.

Magnesium I take because of the hard work I now do. Sorting heavy packages in the postal service leaves me with stiff body and sore muscles. Magnesium does help in this case. 

D vitamin is another I take daily no matter summer or winter. And my blood test still shows lower levels of D vitamin. Imagine folks who dont take it at all?!!  

Thanks for sharing! 

Thank you for the tip on essential oil! I will look into it! 

Btw got a permanent job at my local postal service! Part time but permanent. They seem to be very interested to keep me there. 

Thankd for the best wishes! 

​​​​​​​May you be well! 

A little update; 

I can see a tendency to work hard at work so not to be judged as not being good enough. Also a tendency to work hard around others working with me so I stick above them to be a bit better. More not to be bellow ... or as slow as some of them are. So yes, see judging of those who work very slow. 

It's both funny and sad how this mind (patterns) come into being and create all sort of "realities" which really are not there if you look. There is bunch of sensory input wrapped in feeling tones and a bunch of body sensations, some imagery, which then proliferates into a narrative which again causes amplified feeling tone and on and on stuff bubbles and pops. 

It's possible to "see" these becomings as they are arising. Being "in it" , "allowing it". 

Another one; 
when sorting the packages there can be a belly-hunger-urge so to speak, and jaws clenching, salivating, hands grabbing ... as if hunting a prey! There is an image of guitar related gear I want to acquire, which would be delivered by post. In a package! I want to grab it and open it! I want to sense the inside of it. To let it enter my visual field. To bite into it!!! Arghhhh!!!!!!!!  

Anywho. 

This week was on a tough side as my youngest is sick and I keep him at home during the day and go to work in the evening. 

He is getting better but I'm now feeling me nose stuffed and sore throat. Life is flourishing in my mucus. May them all be free from suffering, awaken, and be happy. 

That's the stuff!

I hope the cold lets you off lightly!
​​​​​​​

Thanks Martin! 

As you say it, that's the stuff and to see it as an object rather than it happening to "me" is why we practice. 

Now, one could of course fabricate good behaviour and try to be a nice person pushing under the rag such unpleasant arisings and  be a good spiritual person but that will not be of any benefit really. 

So it really is about training the mind (through consistent practice) to see stuff as they are. Not self, impermanent, unsatisfactory. These experiences swirl in the field of awareness ... myriads of things ... 

Just before seeing your reply here I've replied to Ashley and could notice pride in me offering her input and tips. At first there was a jerk reaction to stop the reply and just not give any advice but then could see that as well and all the bodily sensations associated with it so the body-mind continued to write the reply even if there was all sorts of mind states and feeling tones and body sensations basically trying to get into a solid story of believing "do not write that reply you are too prideful! You think you know better!"  

So ... yeah. Someone once said "a truckload of dung". Welcome to awakening! Here! You want some?!  

Good observation! All this stuff comes up in me too: pride, judging of pride, modesty, pride over being modest, etc. There is plenty going on when we notice and, as you say, none of it produced by a self, none of it continuing unchanged from one moment to the next, and none of it worth clinging to for satisfaction. When mindfulness is strong, seeing my own mind work is like standing in a schoolyard filled with children. So much drama! But mostly fine. Mostly nothing that needs changing, or shutting down, and certainly nothing that should be ignored.

One of the things I really like about DhO is being able to rub shoulders with people like you, who actually notice this stuff.

We find it hard to believe that we believe, hence down the paths we go to see how we find it hard to believe that we believe. 

I'm so enlightened I just want to rock'n'roll!!! With a huge Marshall stack! Wall of Marshalls! 



No, seriously, just grateful. 
 

Grareful for this job, my family, you folks, all folks and critters, wind and rain and clouds and this and that ... grateful for this awareness ...


​​​​​​​"ok friend". 

Everything is terrible! 


​​​​​​​"ok friend"

 Hope all is well

It's uncertain  

My selves are so proud and egoistic. Last night at work my boss passed the machine I worked on and gave me a can of soda drink! I was so happy thinking on and on how he did it because he appreciated my fast work and on and on my mind kept creating scenarios about how my boss thinks I'm such a great worker deserving a drink from him on and on and on ... "ok friend". 

At the same time sensations of sadness around the eyes as "ok friend" is seeing all this unfold. 

Btw when I moved to a different position at work last night (we rotate every two hours) I realised the boss gave everyone a can of soda drink! Self felt tiny, insignificant and pathetic. "It's ok friend". 

7th Fetter: conceit

"I am better than..." or "I am worse than..." or "I am same as..." -- all are equally forms of conceit.

The middle path goes between all three extremes of conceit. How simple and easy it is, yet how tempting the extremes! I am a King, I am a Serf, I am a Comrade...

Who would Papa be if he was neither better, nor worse, nor same? I think I like that Papa, but I don't have words to describe why. I do not know what he is. He's neither better, nor worse, nor the same. He's truly a very Papa-ish Papa!

"The way is easy for those without preferences" is the classic quote, but as my teacher added when saying it to me: "... ah, but too bad that guy doesn't exist. There is nobody without preferences."  So preferences are fine, but conceit becomes painful. No big change is needed, the difference is just a hair's width. 

"No big change is needed, the difference is just a hair's width"

Oh no! Not that thick! Let me go look for it ... ... damn, I think I've lost it! 

Btw when I moved to a different position at work last night (we rotate every two hours) I realised the boss gave everyone a can of soda drink! Self felt tiny, insignificant and pathetic. "It's ok friend". 

If it's any consolation he probably had to look that technique up in a manual 

Happy new year!  

May there be Peace on Earth! 

May beings be of benefit to one another! 

Happy New year !!

I THINK I'm an enlightened person. 

I BELIEVE people should respect me now more as an enlightened person. 

I THINK, hence I'm full of enlightenment. 

I KNOW what is best for you! 
I BELIEVE you ought to listen to my way, because I'm full of it! 

​​​​​​​I ... 

I THINK I'm enlightened because I FEEL I'm done! 

Im enlightened! I KNOW this because my teacher told me so. 

​​​​​​​I ... 

And here am I still wondering what exactly constitutes a "view"!

Im full of it! 

BTW, today while changing my son's shoity diapers I've noticed how luminous they were! Like all of it! The smell, the content, and the diapers too! All was luminous! All was MIND! 

You certainly hit the nail in the head shargrol , by pointing out the fetter above. What was it called in English again? Conceit? 

I was watching this conceit wrapping up all experiences, all desires, aversions and all. 

Im a fake!  

Even when helpful I'm full of conceit! I'm full of it! 

I treat it with "ok friend" when it sees this conceit wrapping the experiences. It's like an attitude that follows the experiences. Without this conceit I think I would just look like a soft, weak and helpless person. Would cry maybe. So gotta live up to each situation to earn to br a part of this human tribe in all the social circumstances. 

Even within my own believes and inner narratives the conceit is the main wrapping material of all action, inaction and indifference. It gotta be same as, better than, not worst than. Good fellow, helpful fellow, to stand up against injustice etc ... 

At home it's a father and the oldest in the household. Must be respected! 

At work, we all are equal but I might just be a bit faster so my boss isn't regretting giving me a job! 

​​​​​​​Etc ... 

conceit is a tough one, restlessness too... that's why they're number 8 and 9 out of 10!

Oh shit! Scared to ask which one is number 10?! 

Just ignorance -- not knowing what you don't know... yet.

That one is an easy slam dunk after the first 9, no worries   

ah yes! Always don't know and uncertain. Living in an echo chamber but no one is at home. Don't know ... ...

Radical allowing while playing (my favorite practice these days) 

https://youtu.be/Lfom_IQ64eo?si=b4DsQkgaZPMjzrq-

Shit happens! 

​​​​​​​No shit! 

Apparently there is something more important than living the life, and that is to awaken one day! ... one day ... down the path ... one day ... in the future ... I shall awaken ... until then ... 

I don't know shit!

How does that feel?

Which? 

Dunno, you brought it up! 

Ehm ...

You could re-imagine it!

Ok.

... ... ... 

What were we talking about?

Dunno.

But you brought it up or?

Not sure ... 

​​​​​​​Fuck! 

Darn those pesky hemorrhoids again. (Ahem, this is a reference to one of the good papa's recurring jokes and I'm not just being gross for no reason)

Oh yeah, those! I don't feel them when asleep! 

All you have to know is one thing - build the ditches and the rain will come!

oops. I accidentally posted my log on here. Sorry for that papa!

Perfect! I can't see it! 

Was watching to recognise my core psychological thing after shargrol mentioning it several times. 

For me it seems it's FEAR of abandonment. not being good enough. So I strive and try to be funny and fast at work to be above the average . Even to be one of the best if possible. 

Then when I get into the circle of trust I put a mask saying "you can't hurt me now even if you abandon me! I don't care! As a matter of fact I will cut off the ties just to show you that I don't care!"  

Basically it's all FEAR related. 

I remember when first time I've experienced 5th Jhana! Never have I felt so safe in my whole life. If I could solidify that my seeking journey would have ended (and I would have become a Jhana junky). Luckily Anicca came to rescue and Dukkha and Anatta joined to screw that up for me  

Yeah to that. I've discovered over and over again that the majority of my "issues" are sourced in fear.

me too, me too...

And fear is basically an unwillingness to experience a sensation. Which is really strange because the sensation (e.g. the abandonment feeling) isn't that big of a deal, ultimately. (Of course it takes a while to be able to rest in the experience of it, but it definitely isn't impossible to do.) But before we can develop that ability, when we are on the threshold of experiencing our core wound sensation, it feels like we're going to fall off a cliff and die.

In my experience, fear is representational - it's the mind's icon for the actual experience that's considered harmful in some way. It's our early warning radar system. Being afraid of the feeling or sensation is a way of keeping us out of the nasty experience itself. I think it's typically a healthy response, but it leads to dysfunction over time if un-addressed.

well said!

Thanks for the replies ya all! It does help getting a feedback! 

Hi mum
I'm a loser

A mixture of misery and restless manic-A&P. Ugh! It needs to move not to be miserable I guess. Ugh! Ugly feeling tone. 

Edit to add;
for those interested in the body sensations associated with the above, there is a hungry feeling in the belly and heavy salivating and contracted tension in the throat and jaw, slight unpleasant tension in the neck and arms, nada sound not too prominent, breathing in and out both short with a long pause after the outbreath and before taking new in-breath.

EDIT 2;
image field is diffused as if looking through things rather than focusing on them.

Thank you Papa for sharing, it helped me understand my fear of abandonment better.

It's funny, not long before I read in your log, I was re-reading the misery chapter of MCTB2... For me it's also this hunger feeling, tight throat and jaw with a cramped feeling in the stomach and tight swallowing, like nauseous.

I think what shargrol said is very helpful. Eventually the experience of abandonment is far more tolerable than we assume.

(And also: Ideal Parent Figure protocol (Brown, D. P. (2016). Attachment disturbances in adults: treatment for comprehensive repair (First edition). W.W. Norton & Company.)/four immeasurable-type practices!)

Glad to be of service  

Allow me to be a know-it-all for a minute  
Nauseous is likely Disqust. At least for me it is. Even the air breathing in and out can be disgusting and cause nausea. The hunger part I pin on the Hungry Ghost realm to add coloration to the otherwise boring POI Realms can send you friends and guests to work with and welcome into your guesthouse as Rumi would say All day long saying hi and good bye to myriads guests. Or as I do "ok friend".

But yes! The abandonment issue is a big one for me, so much I make a fool of myself with people at work I like. Just can't shut up and just be boring and need be more active and say many more words to be funny and work harder to prove Im good enough etc ... oh man ... it is what it is 

Olivier you little .... nice to see you in my log mate! You know why I gave my secondborn son the name Oliv(i)er don't you?  

I wish you offered me a glass of red instead of reading books! Its not gonna happen! But if you want to distill in a few words what that read is about and which part can help then offer me that and I will read it  

Oh you think I don't drink red! I am french, my dear Papa, and you should check your DMs...

Skip straight to the part about the practice, e.g., ideal parent protocol. Also, there's a lot of generally interesting stuff in various sections, haven't read the whole thing though. I can share the .pdf if you wish.

Merde! Now you made me look for that infernal DM which I call PM and have no idea why folks call it DM to this day! Im a dinosaur who's bones will be researched by the future AI's! 

​​​​​​​Cant find it ... lemme look some more ...

Don't worry, I know DanielGPT will take good care of your bones!! and mine!

It's just the "Messages" tab at the top.

Damn that DM/PM as we can't share photos there!
​​​​​​​Oliver is the little guy to the left with a hammer in his hand, being held by his big bra Kai  

Oh I believe you! Here is my holy beverage of red Spanish Tempranillo  


​​​​​​​

Very handsome.

Rioja tempranillos are some of the most reliable reds I know...

I would share a wine selfie but the internet is forever ...

WILL I EVER AWAKEN???!!!!!

Papa, it might be time for 5 Elements. Have you read/learned about that style of meditation?

​​​​​​​

Nope. Actually maybe skimmed over it once. 

Restless - Air? Connected with some body sensation? 

The 5 Elements is very appropriate for after someone gets both the psychological and tautological aspects of 6 Realms. 

The psychological aspect of 6 realms focuses on the main driver (anger, greed, stubbornness/habit, desire, ambition, and pride). This stuff is so simple it's taught to children as sort of a morality story - "don't be greedy or you'll become a preta". The tautological aspect of 6 realms is all about apparent solidity and actual emptiness. The hell being is angry because everything it sees reminds him of anger and he is angry because his entire body/mind is angry and the answer to every insult is more anger and his anger causes more insults which result in more insults comming back at him and insults make him angry. To get out this realm the hell being needs to see through the tautology -- which is really hard when you are angry. But it is interesting how in just a moment of cooling off, we quickly forget all the rationalizations of why were were angry and instead we look more objectively --- and suddenly lashing out and fighting is obviously doesn't help even if we feel a bit angry. So we can never quite trust our mind because it seems much truer than it is.

(Emptiness doesn't mean that it's a complete illusion -- emptiness just means that things are not what they seem but neither are they completely unrelated to how they seem.)

But I know you know all of this!

So 5 element comes in because it is the study of what happens in the first tenth of a second (literally) of a reactive pattern. Beyond psychology and truly into the world of tantric meditation.

So air is not psychlogical restlessness, for example. Air is actually a micro-second of an experience of emptiness, followed by a micro-second of anxiety, followed by a micro-second of >doing something<... which then goes through another cycle of reinforcement, which then shows itself as overt/obvious busyiness.  The practice is to use daily review and/or visualization to >intentionally< provoke these reactions while in meditation and attempt to see the first few microseconds.

The nice thing is that for us lay people, there are plenty of things happening over the course of the day which can be used! In a way, this is like "shargrol tonglen", because you just use the content of what comes up when you sit down at the end of the day and reflect on all the dramas (or when you do this when your head hits the pillow right before sleep).

The nice thing about this is it is 100% experiential, not conceptual. Even though there is intentional practice, it is clear that the untangling is very personal and very relevant to refining our own basic sanity. 

The Ken McLeod approach of doing visualizations works really well for getting established and developing basic "literacy" with the ideas. Then it quickly becomes adaptable for more personalized experimentation/creativity.

Definitely give a look on  p.173 in Wake Up To Your Life on "shock" .  Then look at Chapter 6 - dismantling reactive emotions on p.207 a look.

​​​​​​​Happy to respond to questions, etc. 

Thank you S! Will try to get myself open that book once again. 

Happy to discuss in a separate thread, but definitely read the sections in Wake Up To Your Life -- that answers most of your questions.

Can you split into a new thread, O moderator?

I've just gone over the two passages, it seems to me he is describing something like a shorthand formula for dependent origination, basically, but I didn't spot an explanation related to the link between actual water/fire/air/earth and the types/levels of reactivity? Perhaps I missed it.

The new Five Elements thread can be found at https://www.dharmaoverground.org/discussion/-/message_boards/view_message/28132577.

I've found these two on Spotify 

Is that it? 


​​​​​​​

My father's nickname was Dakini. So ... I don't think I can use the Dakini visualization as a practice method. It's too distracting. 

But I can use the 5 Elements I guess , even though I would likely prefer to watch directly the URGE jerks of energy which I already reported ages ago in my post-SE logs here on DhO. I would call this mind-urge-surge a jerk towards, or away from something before even becoming an action or story. 
Even Chris asked me once "what do you mean by mind-jerk" but I couldn't explain it well maybe. Long time ago. 

Its basically what occurs before the forming of a Realm. As there can be awakeness in the Realm so can there be awakeness in any of these 5 Urges-jerks. There certainly is a surge of energy in attention and immediate following by some body sensation and these can then reinforce it all, the "what goes around comes around" cycles of re-inforcement. However Im starting to see this blowing up of URGE SURGE energy (its a bit like blowing up a children's balloon) and the realm seem to be seen as an option. Im talking about every day life situations at work or home (much easier to see these at work though). 

Shargrol, is this anything that resembles 5 Elements observation/investigation without actually going into the LABELS of 5 Elements which I find distracting?

​​​​​​​Thank you  

That is exactly how Ken McLeod describes it. You have the experience of not knowing/emptiness, there is an URGE that is a reaction to that, and if the urge is not seen as an urge, then there is a reinforcement reaction... and after that you are reborn in a realm. 

I really think you should read about 5 elements in WUTYL.