When I "just sit" without intention then I seem to go through peacefulness and lack of attachment much more than if I'm looking at anything in particular.

When I look at self, watch the self arising or ask "who am I?" then it actually appears like the self becomes much bigger, stronger, and, paradoxically, more slippery and impossible to see "from the outside".

Curiously the same thing more or less applies with suffering. If I look at pain then it can also sometimes increase, become much less bearable, and cause a lot more suffering.

This seems to be the opposite of what should be happening. So what is happening here?

I always understood that equanimity meant that it doesn't matter if there's self or pain or whatever, you're just tranquil either way. So how do you encourage that to arise if the very act of being with pain or self causes them to appear bigger and less bearable?

Is there an aversion being triggered for the experience of something assumed to be 'self'? If so, perhaps become aware of that mental push and pull of aversion towards whatever is perceived. Experiemnt with complete 100% acceptance of that experience you describe (the growing of a sense of 'self') and simply be curioius as to what will happen next WITHOUT ANY EXPECTATION WHATSOEVER.

And/or perhaps if so inclined, explore what that sense of 'self' is actually made up of, a mental overlay? a supporting sensation somewhere in the body? A mental image? Break it down no matter how 'big' it seems to get. Notice any aversion for sch an experience as well and include it in a panoramic viewpoint including both the sense of 'me-ness' and sense of aversion...at the same time and dispassionately watch curious as to what will happen next, WITHOUT ANY EXPECTATION WHATSOEVER!



Attention is bringing more awareness to what is arising, the mind is making whatever it is that is arising into an mental 'object' to then subjectively react towards with aversion...and thus it seems like it has grown in quantity and quality and misery. Same as above, become aware of the sense of mental aversion at the same time as the other phenomena (object of attention). See what happens next etc.



It would seem you have established a big subtle 'should' belief (e.g. it should be that way not this way) within the mind which now conditions how experience is experienced, either with aversion or craving. Question that 'belief' and allow it to be seen as just a locked in thought loop conditioning how you practice (i.e.not wanting experience to eb a certain way, wanting it to be as it 'should'). Becoming aware of it and allowing it to be seen as it arises and ceases will show its cessation more often than not.



Question and explore, discern and cultivate dispassion for the sensations of aversion for such experiences and the craving for something 'should', otherwise you will be eternally disappointed.

Nick

I see it as pretty much a law, that whatever is attended to will grow. Watching pain increases pain. Watching thoughts increases thoughts to the point of causing misery and deep depression. Watching the breath just makes you very, very aware of the breath.

If you can first become absorbed into jhana, only then should pain and thoughts be made objects. Only then will your attention to such objects as 'pain' and 'thought' result in them being dissolved. The outcome is less pain and less thoughts, more peace, more stillness, more joy.

How do you become absorbed if not through paying attention? The answer is in the style of attention you pay. You want to seduce your breath, not watch it like a hawk.

When you seduce a woman, you're aiming for a fusion of your energies. You don't stare at her intently and think "hmm... I wonder which way she will move next". And you don't go in too hard too fast or you will be rejected. There's an optimal pacing. You need to make yourself open. You need to feel her energy rather than watch her. Feel how her energy interacts with yours. Play with that a bit. Withdraw, advance, withdraw, advance till you find the optimal pace and distance. The optimal level feels right for you and for her. You know it feels right for her because you can feel her energy change as your attention changes. Do the same with the breath. You're wanting to become one with the breath. To call the breath an "object" is like calling an attractive woman an "object". Is that going to set up the right attitude? No - you go home alone that way. Instead, melt into the breath, but not too fast. Find the optimal pace and distance. Never assume resistance or difficulty. Instead assume that the breath is just waiting for you to do it right.

The words "Watch the breath" is poor teaching. Poor instruction.


edits++

The purpose of meditation is to be aware of the arising of all psycho-physical processes in order to discern the dependent arising of suffering.

Forget all metaphysical or ontological speculation about a self, that does not help.

:-)

Hi Rich,

I've experienced exactly what you are describing and it took me a while to figure out that I actually had an aversion to 'selfing', which only served to increase the amount of 'selfing' =). Nickolai's advice is spot on. The key, as he said, is to let go of expectations about what should be and be very curious and accepting and observe what actually is. Easy to say, perhaps more difficult to do.

Something that may make it easier (as it did for me), is to work on your concentration practice first, and then switch to observing 'selfing'. When I do this, the concentration practice allows me to have much more equanimity and to observe selfing with more curiosity and acceptance. Instead of my knee-jerk 'Oh *!@#, I'm selfing again. When will I finally be done with this", which leads to more 'selfing', the selfing is seen (in my case) as a fleeting, wispy mental overlay, a mere caricature of the actual sensations making up my experience. If I maintain an even keel, the selfing very naturally drops away. Of course, the selfing arises again and again, but you can just curiously observe this interesting phenomenon again and again. After a while, it starts to seem less troublesome.

Hope that helps.

Cheers,

Nick

Thanks for the comments. In particular those made by Nikolai.

I am now following this advice.