Get A Fucking Grip...

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Tommy M, שונה לפני 9 שנים at 16:15 12/02/15
Created 9 שנים ago at 16:15 12/02/15

Get A Fucking Grip...

פרסומים: 1199 תאריך הצטרפות: 12/11/10 פרסומים אחרונים
So, it would appear that the site has descended into bullshit, sockpuppetry and childish behaviour.

What the fuck happened here?

This place used to be about hardcore practice and discussion of modelling the process of awakening, but all I can see is a smorgasbord of butthurt and split threads on topics deserving of more mature discussion.

At which point did people forget the aims of the site? When did a once supportive community become a feeding ground for drama llamas?

Even the whole AF thing seems like a sensible discussion compared to some of the shite on here just now!

As a long-time member of the site, even though I've been absent for various reasons for a few years now, I'm saddened by the state the place is in and I think we owe it to the Buddhadharma, to Daniel and to ourselves to sort this shit out. I think it's time we put an end to the trolling, the bullshit threads, the insults, the animosity and immaturity that's been permitted to continue here.

I put it to those who would choose to troll, sockpuppet or otherwise make a nuisance of themselves: If you don't like what's discussed on here, then you can fuck off. Behaviour like this will not be tolerated and I'll ensure you're banned without notification. If you want to come back on and argue with me or start shit, I wouldn't waste your time 'cause I can play that game for as long as you like; you'll be get bored of being banned more quickly than I will of continually banning you. So, to summarize: Contribute constructively or GTFO.

This site and its content can be of tremendous use to many people, don't let's ruin it by filling it with the sort of crap more suited to some teenage goth club than discussion of practice. You're better than this, how in the hell could such an excellent site and resource get into such a state.

If you disagree, feel free to call me out. I'm back on more regularly again and will try to answer when I get the chance.

T
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Laurel Carrington, שונה לפני 9 שנים at 17:55 12/02/15
Created 9 שנים ago at 17:55 12/02/15

RE: Get A Fucking Grip...

פרסומים: 439 תאריך הצטרפות: 07/04/14 פרסומים אחרונים
Well, hello Tommy! It's absolutely delightful to have you back, and I mean that. No fooling.
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Connie Dobbs, שונה לפני 9 שנים at 18:15 12/02/15
Created 9 שנים ago at 18:15 12/02/15

RE: Get A Fucking Grip...

פרסומים: 23 תאריך הצטרפות: 10/02/15 פרסומים אחרונים
I agree wholeheartedly. Hoping this criteria will hold for _everyone_! Welcome back.

PS:
Am I the only one who's also seeing increased "normal" activity of forum? We have some really interesting new on topic threads and some new exciting journals. Also, old respectful members coming back, including you. Woohoo! Happy.
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Not Tao, שונה לפני 9 שנים at 18:26 12/02/15
Created 9 שנים ago at 18:26 12/02/15

RE: Get A Fucking Grip...

פרסומים: 995 תאריך הצטרפות: 05/04/14 פרסומים אחרונים
Hi Tommy,

Which threads are you talking about?  Your post is kind of confusing because you seem to be insulting the people who are shouting about trolls as well as saying all the trolls should be banned, haha.  There's only been one thread where everyone was saying how angry they are at eachother along with a few obvious spinoffs.  The forum has been pretty normal otherwise.  It's been pretty easy to avoid the whole thing.
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Jason Snyder, שונה לפני 9 שנים at 19:19 12/02/15
Created 9 שנים ago at 19:17 12/02/15

RE: Get A Fucking Grip...

פרסומים: 186 תאריך הצטרפות: 25/10/13 פרסומים אחרונים
Not Tao:
Hi Tommy,

Which threads are you talking about?  Your post is kind of confusing because you seem to be insulting the people who are shouting about trolls as well as saying all the trolls should be banned, haha.  There's only been one thread where everyone was saying how angry they are at eachother along with a few obvious spinoffs.  The forum has been pretty normal otherwise.  It's been pretty easy to avoid the whole thing.

I agree, I've seen a few drama threads but otherwise not a big deal. In fact the reaction against the drama and the argument about who is responsible has proven more dramatic and has reified what were a few hurt feelings about teaching dharma for money into an all out "forum emergency/breakdown/apocalypse". In other words maybe the "get a grip"ers need to get a grip. 
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Daniel - san, שונה לפני 9 שנים at 20:14 12/02/15
Created 9 שנים ago at 20:14 12/02/15

RE: Get A Fucking Grip...

פרסומים: 309 תאריך הצטרפות: 09/09/14 פרסומים אחרונים
@Not Tao & Jason - Agreed
All the tantrum throwing seems so exhausting - are you really this exasperated Tommy or just being facetious?
At some point I couldn't tell if people were for real or just F-ing around, acting like caricatures or role playing
Being so involved in dharma and loads of drama at the same time makes little sense to me
At the same time, pining for the glory days when the DhO was so fantastic and badass also sounds nostalgic and I call bs. I'd been lurking here for years before I joined a few months ago and it doesn't seem all the different to me - lot's of useful good conversations happening here still as far as I can tell - and there was plenty of stupid drama to go around back then
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Eric M W, שונה לפני 9 שנים at 09:35 13/02/15
Created 9 שנים ago at 09:35 13/02/15

RE: Get A Fucking Grip...

פרסומים: 288 תאריך הצטרפות: 19/03/14 פרסומים אחרונים
Tommy,

Yes, this place has become a shit-hole, especially compared to a couple of years ago when you were still active here. I hear rumor that there is some work going on behind the scenes that will, hopefully, straighten this place out. The lack of skilled practitioners is the core problem.

I suspect that MCTB2, when published, will bring an influx of new users. It would be nice if this place was cleaned up by then.

It's good to have you back, regardless. I missed your presence.
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katy steger,thru11615 with thanks, שונה לפני 9 שנים at 19:56 13/02/15
Created 9 שנים ago at 19:56 13/02/15

RE: Get A Fucking Grip...

פרסומים: 1740 תאריך הצטרפות: 01/10/11 פרסומים אחרונים
At first I wrote you silly haiku, remembering your irreverant humor. 
But then, I retracted it as things are up in the air. 
So here is something quiet.
Take care.
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Tommy M, שונה לפני 9 שנים at 13:32 14/02/15
Created 9 שנים ago at 13:32 14/02/15

RE: Get A Fucking Grip...

פרסומים: 1199 תאריך הצטרפות: 12/11/10 פרסומים אחרונים
The point of this was to call out drama llamas and trolls. Some of the posts, for example the money and Buddhadharma thing, just seem to have degenerated in a way that would never have been permitted on here, nor on KFD. I've also been informed of recurring trolls and sockpuppetry for various childish reasons, so I thought I'd say my piece as a relatively old-school Dho-er and hope we can avoid another ridiculous schism between respected member of the site. In all honesty, I was surprised by the seeming resurgence in the practical focus of the threads and the appearance of people like Dream Walker, Laurel and Steph S, all of whom I know to be serious practictioners.

The reason I came back on was through request as I haven't been active here for a couple of years now, but having met up with Daniel recently and rekindled my interest in hardcore 'technical' meditation I decided I would get back to a disciplined practice and keep a new journal. I was genuinely pissed off about the behaviour of some people on here, who I'll refrain from naming out of overall respect, and just wanted to poke my head above the water and take a more direct approach to putting an end to unhelpful, destructive posts. Admittedly, my tendency to swear could be taken as anger, but as anyone who's met me or spoken to me will confirm, I do ten to swear quite a lot and it's nothing to do with anger. I just like doing it. Ha!

Anyway, let's just drop all of the drama and get back practice, discussion and modelling of whichever tangent of experiential development we have chosen at this moment.

Peace out.

T
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Laurel Carrington, שונה לפני 9 שנים at 14:17 14/02/15
Created 9 שנים ago at 14:17 14/02/15

RE: Get A Fucking Grip...

פרסומים: 439 תאריך הצטרפות: 07/04/14 פרסומים אחרונים
Very good, Tommy. I am grateful to you for enriching my vocabulary with two terms I had not encountered before: butthurt and drama llama. 
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Eva Nie, שונה לפני 9 שנים at 20:28 15/02/15
Created 9 שנים ago at 20:28 15/02/15

RE: Get A Fucking Grip...

פרסומים: 831 תאריך הצטרפות: 23/03/14 פרסומים אחרונים
Tommy M:

I was genuinely pissed off about the behaviour of some people on here, who I'll refrain from naming out of overall respect, and just wanted to poke my head above the water and take a more direct approach to putting an end to unhelpful, destructive posts.
Which brings up an interesting point, does complaining about sock puppets and trolls influence them to stop?   Now all you bad behaving people, let's just quit it!  If only it were so easy!  ;-P

Admittedly, my tendency to swear could be taken as anger, but as anyone who's met me or spoken to me will confirm, I do ten to swear quite a lot and it's nothing to do with anger. I just like doing it. Ha!
It did come off as quite the angry rant.  I assumed you were angry when I read it, I actually thought it was going to be even more drama!  I guess I missed the thread that had all the other drama so I was surprised to suddenly see ranting here.  Interesting  how angry emotions tend to spread around easily, hopefully the happier emotions can do the same..
-Eva

Anyway, let's just drop all of the drama and get back practice, discussion and modelling of whichever tangent of experiential development we have chosen at this moment.

Peace out.

T
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Daniel M Ingram, שונה לפני 9 שנים at 22:08 15/02/15
Created 9 שנים ago at 22:08 15/02/15

RE: Get A Fucking Grip...

פרסומים: 3274 תאריך הצטרפות: 20/04/09 פרסומים אחרונים
It was great meeting up with Tommy, I agree, and great getting two weeks to practice well and have great dharma conversations.

In that same spirit, it has been decided by me and echoed by others that the moderate policy will be changing here, that it will be enforced more, that we aren't going to apologize for that, and that we are going to do our darndest to keep this place about the things it was dedicated to: friends helping friends to practice well and share the adventure.

We are going to err on the side of heavy-handed for a bit to see how that goes and perhaps back off if and when the culture has changed for the better.

I agree, there are still good discussions, and I agree that the good ol' days weren't always so good, but neither of those things should prevent us from addressing the great pile of recent complaints and comments about lower signal to noise around here.

Thus, be it known that the moderators and myself will be just stopping things, locking threads that have gone off track, splitting threads, banning people, and rebanning them if they show up again. Post helpful things about practice, the application of theory to your actual experience, and all should be well.

Daniel
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Steph S, שונה לפני 9 שנים at 10:09 16/02/15
Created 9 שנים ago at 10:09 16/02/15

RE: Get A Fucking Grip...

פרסומים: 672 תאריך הצטרפות: 24/03/10 פרסומים אחרונים
Tommy -
Ha. I got name-dropped up above.  Good to see you and good to be back too.  Yea, I don't know what's been happening drama wise because I haven't been posting for a while and just recently started again.  But either way, I agree with the sentiment of keeping it fun, light hearted, sincere, and about practice.  

Daniel -  
I mentioned in another thread I made recently that I have been reading through MCTB2, and I'm really happy with the further emphasis on keeping practice (and all things) balanced. I hope people can apply that balance to DhO too. I really want to read what is tangibly going on in peoples' practices - what methods they are using, what is coming up, how they are modifying it if/when necessary, what results they are getting, etc.  Seriously, can we please all do that?
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Noah, שונה לפני 9 שנים at 00:03 15/02/15
Created 9 שנים ago at 00:03 15/02/15

RE: Get A Fucking Grip...

פרסומים: 1467 תאריך הצטרפות: 06/07/13 פרסומים אחרונים
I agree wholeheartedly with the initial post!

Some further thoughts:

-Volume is one of the problems here.  Simple quality over quantity as well as the need for dho'ers to back down from arguments or repetitive discussions when they aren't going anywhere.  We should tolerate stalemates.

-There seems to be a lot of discussion revolving around word choice or minute distinctions between concepts.  Imo, anytime these conversations are occuring, all practicioners should be asking themselves how the content relates to their direct experience, and then bring descriptions of those experiences into the discussion.  If they fail to conjure up any examples, they should consider leaving the thread.  
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