Fear of early stages of vipassana - Discussion
Fear of early stages of vipassana
8年前 に Steven B によって更新されました。 at 16/09/12 15:58
Created 8年 ago at 16/09/12 15:58
Fear of early stages of vipassana
投稿: 5 参加年月日: 13/08/12 最新の投稿
Hi,
I have posted on DhO once or twice, but have been lurking for a few years now. I would be grateful to anyone who can offer advice to a beginner who is fearful of the first few stages of vipassana practise.
I have been practising meditation for five odd years with a focus on attaining the first jhana through breath awareness. I have gained some concentration, but still far off getting into jhana. I recently decided to switch to warming up with some breath awareness (15 minutes) followed by 30 minutes of noting, twice per day. I have been also trying to maintain noting throughout the day.
I hit what I think was mind and body territory when I first started meditating five years ago, and it terrified me. Since then, not much has happened, except for a minor increase in concentration abilities. Tonight I had a sit which started with a 15 min beath awareness warm up, then not long after I started noting a feeling of no self became obvious. My noting was at the same level of competence as before, but it simply became apparent that I was not any of the things that I was noting, nor the background things that I wasn't fast enough to note. I sat with this feeling for a few seconds, then it started to snowball. Fear overcame me and I absolutely panicked. I really had to fight to shake this snowballing off. Even now as I write this I feel it coming back. It sounds weak reading this back to myself, but it was a very intense experience. I don't know if this is mind and body territory, and I am one of those who finds this stage a 'shock' as per MCTB, or whether this is something else, but if anyone has some advice I would greatly appreciate it. I know I should have noted the arising of fear and panic, but the intensity prevented me from doing so.
Thanks,
Steve
I have posted on DhO once or twice, but have been lurking for a few years now. I would be grateful to anyone who can offer advice to a beginner who is fearful of the first few stages of vipassana practise.
I have been practising meditation for five odd years with a focus on attaining the first jhana through breath awareness. I have gained some concentration, but still far off getting into jhana. I recently decided to switch to warming up with some breath awareness (15 minutes) followed by 30 minutes of noting, twice per day. I have been also trying to maintain noting throughout the day.
I hit what I think was mind and body territory when I first started meditating five years ago, and it terrified me. Since then, not much has happened, except for a minor increase in concentration abilities. Tonight I had a sit which started with a 15 min beath awareness warm up, then not long after I started noting a feeling of no self became obvious. My noting was at the same level of competence as before, but it simply became apparent that I was not any of the things that I was noting, nor the background things that I wasn't fast enough to note. I sat with this feeling for a few seconds, then it started to snowball. Fear overcame me and I absolutely panicked. I really had to fight to shake this snowballing off. Even now as I write this I feel it coming back. It sounds weak reading this back to myself, but it was a very intense experience. I don't know if this is mind and body territory, and I am one of those who finds this stage a 'shock' as per MCTB, or whether this is something else, but if anyone has some advice I would greatly appreciate it. I know I should have noted the arising of fear and panic, but the intensity prevented me from doing so.
Thanks,
Steve
8年前 に Stirling Campbell によって更新されました。 at 16/09/12 17:49
Created 8年 ago at 16/09/12 17:49
RE: Fear of early stages of vipassana
投稿: 635 参加年月日: 16/03/13 最新の投稿
Meditation can have easy to enjoy beneficial effects, but if pursued rigorously will RADICALLY transform who "you" are and how you see this world. That glimpse you had is where you are headed. If it is your intention to continue on this path as anything but a casual meditator I would highly suggest you find a teacher to guide you. Also, if you are of a nervous demeanor, it might be worth investigating some of the "wet" practices as well, like Zen or the Tibetan Buddhist traditions.
8年前 に shargrol によって更新されました。 at 16/09/12 18:51
Created 8年 ago at 16/09/12 18:51
RE: Fear of early stages of vipassana
投稿: 2693 参加年月日: 16/02/08 最新の投稿
Honestly, these sorts of "problems" are exactly why the buddha said "association with the wise is the whole of the spiritual life". It can be very hard to face these kind of fears if there isn't confidence in the method and the support of some kind of sangha. When you have spiritual friends you can talk with, in a very normal human way, then it feels less risky to go into this territory and explore it.
For what it's worth, I decided to find a teacher when I faced a somewhat similar situation. I had a big opening on retreat and I was terrified every time I sat. I was sitting mostly in the evening and in the dark space space behind my eyes, so to speak, it felt like being in the the deep, dark ocean where a giant shark (or something) was going to swim out of the darkness to eat me. Sounds stupid, but that's exactly what it felt like. I felt like a little, little fish in a big, big ocean. Terrifying.
Finally I found an online/skype teacher and described the situation. He said, "don't worry, whatever it eats isn't you." Wow! You can't believe how his saying that effected me. Suddenly I wanted to go into that deep darkness again and see what would happen!
So what I would advise is to find/create your support group before going any further. Find spritual friends or a teacher that you can check in with when things get tough --- and to celebrate with when things get fun! It's best when it is in-person, there is nothing better, but sometimes online is the best you can do. (Feel free to send me a message if you have questions along those lines.) Frankly, we're not always thinking about finding a support group until things get difficult, that's totally normal. But difficult territory reinforces the importance of some form of sangha/community.
In any case, the fact that you are encountering difficult territory means that you are expanding your territory, so congratulations! And I hope this helps!
For what it's worth, I decided to find a teacher when I faced a somewhat similar situation. I had a big opening on retreat and I was terrified every time I sat. I was sitting mostly in the evening and in the dark space space behind my eyes, so to speak, it felt like being in the the deep, dark ocean where a giant shark (or something) was going to swim out of the darkness to eat me. Sounds stupid, but that's exactly what it felt like. I felt like a little, little fish in a big, big ocean. Terrifying.
Finally I found an online/skype teacher and described the situation. He said, "don't worry, whatever it eats isn't you." Wow! You can't believe how his saying that effected me. Suddenly I wanted to go into that deep darkness again and see what would happen!
So what I would advise is to find/create your support group before going any further. Find spritual friends or a teacher that you can check in with when things get tough --- and to celebrate with when things get fun! It's best when it is in-person, there is nothing better, but sometimes online is the best you can do. (Feel free to send me a message if you have questions along those lines.) Frankly, we're not always thinking about finding a support group until things get difficult, that's totally normal. But difficult territory reinforces the importance of some form of sangha/community.
In any case, the fact that you are encountering difficult territory means that you are expanding your territory, so congratulations! And I hope this helps!
8年前 に Steven B によって更新されました。 at 16/09/15 12:11
Created 8年 ago at 16/09/15 12:10
RE: Fear of early stages of vipassana
投稿: 5 参加年月日: 13/08/12 最新の投稿
Thank you Stirling Campbell and Shargrol for the responses. I am definitely an anxious person, so perhaps going back to more wet methods would suit me better. Getting a teacher at this stage is a good idea. I have tried approaching my local buddist centre in the past, but wasn't able to get the assistance I need. Shargrol, I might take you up on the opportunity to message you.
Thanks.
Thanks.
8年前 に Noah D によって更新されました。 at 16/09/15 17:37
Created 8年 ago at 16/09/15 17:37
RE: Fear of early stages of vipassana
投稿: 1217 参加年月日: 16/09/01 最新の投稿
a) Do talk to Shargrol, he's a valuable resource!
b) If you are afraid of the effects of Vipassana, know that every moment is a chance to practice, not just your twice daily sits. If you get into some hairy territory, you can continuously disembed from it off the cushion via noting or other mindfulness.
c) You can also learn some peripheral skills unrelated to the progress of insight such as working with the breath to fabricate joy on command. I believe that an overemphasis on choice less awareness is a common mistake in modern Buddhist meditation circles. Gladdening the mind won't take you through the Nanas, but it can temporarily shield you from them whenever necessary.
Best of luck!
b) If you are afraid of the effects of Vipassana, know that every moment is a chance to practice, not just your twice daily sits. If you get into some hairy territory, you can continuously disembed from it off the cushion via noting or other mindfulness.
c) You can also learn some peripheral skills unrelated to the progress of insight such as working with the breath to fabricate joy on command. I believe that an overemphasis on choice less awareness is a common mistake in modern Buddhist meditation circles. Gladdening the mind won't take you through the Nanas, but it can temporarily shield you from them whenever necessary.
Best of luck!
8年前 に Dream Walker によって更新されました。 at 16/09/15 21:20
Created 8年 ago at 16/09/15 21:20
RE: Fear of early stages of vipassana
投稿: 1770 参加年月日: 12/01/18 最新の投稿Steven B:
I would be grateful to anyone who can offer advice to a beginner who is fearful of the first few stages of vipassana practise.
site:http://www.dharmaoverground.org worth it
Or any other search term that might let you find more advice.
There have been lots of discussion in the past about whether meditation is necessarily the right thing for all people all the time. Opinions vary greatly.
Good luck,
~D