If you are dissatisfied with the traditional attainment models, try this neat trick. It's possible to descend the jhanic arc and skip jhanas down while attaining N.S. twice...right around 6th jhana and 4th jhana. But you need to be pretty worked up for this to be possible. Think extreme dance moves. I am just tired of the same old thing. I want new attainments! jk

So can you describe for us what getting into NS is like? Phenomenologically speaking? How do you know you're getting there? How do you know you've been there? What's inside? How do you feel afterward?

​​​​​​​Thanks!

Chris. My practice changes so rapidly that sometimes it is hard enough to revisit the conditions that inspired my original thought. I was excited and have posted about N.S. in the past, so I posted again. The main reason I posted is that I wanted to think outside the box about reincarnation. Ns was a happy accident that gave confidence in the dharma. So there, twice and perhaps more to come.

I'm not buying it. If want people here to believe you and trust you you'll have to validate the stuff you post from your own experience. You can't seem to do that. These things (like Nirodha Samapati) that you talk about so cavalierly are, when really and truly manifest, almost literally unforgettable.

Maybe so.

Here's how I see it: folks come here for a purpose - dedicated mediation practice. If what they encounter here is just babble and unhelpful (or worse, misleading and potentially detrimental) why would they stay here? There are folks 'round these parts who can detect BS pretty quickly, but they don't very often say anything thinking it's not their place, not worth the effort, or not worth getting into an argument over. I can put up with BS only for so long, I guess. At some point, someone needs to say something and establish a least a minimum standard of truthfulness and personal responsibility for what people post.

Purely out of curiosity and a desire to understand what you are saying.<br />When you say you can attain NS at two inflection points while skipping the jhanic arc 'downwards', do you mean to say that you exit a jhana, enter NS and immediately upon exiting NS enter into the contiguous jhana.<br /><br />For me once I exit NS I could just sit there for a week and not do anything, they only reason I move is because there is a world and there are responsibilities and I enjoy doing them nowadays. I mean to say I cant imagine doing anything like meditating or anything really after a NS.<br /><br />Would like to know more about your experience if you care to share.<br />Thanks

I have been practicing dzogchen and I think a pure N.S. might be hard to find in this context. It stays hidden most of the time. So when I experience N.S. it might be N.S. light, due to the fact that my morality trip prohibits me from staying "subdued" for long. You are correct though, the jhanas went down in order and I felt two "sessions" wrapped around the formless realms as they descended in order.

Once again, I have to call BS on ya. There's no such thing as NS light. You are either in NS or you're not, by definition. You may be getting into some kind of jhana (who knows?) but it's not NS. Problem is, you refuse to be specific enough about the phenomenology of your experiences for anyone to really be able to judge - I believe that's intentional. Slippery.

Thanks Chris. I also feel that it is important to expect a least a minimum standard of truthfulness and personal responsibility when people post. 

A. Dietrich Ringle, could you consider adding more detail/context to your future posts so that readers can determine whether you are using these technical words appropriately? If your intention really is to help others, it might be good to provide a more detailed explanation of the advice you are giving.

Personally, I view nearly all NS claims here through a highly skeptical lens, knowing very few people who can actually do this. In the past, nearly all claims to NS here didn't meet the expected bar for phenomenology in all technical aspects: prerequisites, setup, entrance, thing itself, exit, afterglow and aftereffects.

You guys are mean.

My worth is not valued in silver or gold.

I do my best with autism. I hope you aren't discriminating against me.

I'm headed for the hungary ghost realm.

Focus on your own practice sir. Autism or not, you are a yogi. Worthy of respect. I think folks are writing to you with friendship in their hearts, thats what matters most in human interaction. I wish you great success in your practice. Take care.