How quickly can you go from fruition to the next fruition? - Discussion
How quickly can you go from fruition to the next fruition?
Brandon Michael Rohe,修改在2 年前。 at 21-8-7 上午10:49
Created 2 年 ago at 21-8-7 上午10:49
How quickly can you go from fruition to the next fruition?
帖子: 17 加入日期: 21-6-1 最近的帖子
I had a really strange event where I had at least four cessations within a roughly 30-45 minute period. Is this normal for some people? The cessations were rather short in duration.
Sigma Tropic,修改在2 年前。 at 21-8-7 上午11:33
Created 2 年 ago at 21-8-7 上午11:30
RE: How quickly can you go from fruition to the next fruition?
帖子: 368 加入日期: 17-6-27 最近的帖子
I wrote this about an experience I had:
I experienced this phenomena where it was as if I was having flashes of experiencing myself outside of my body as another me for a split second before reconverging into one me. It was like my sense of self was being split in two. It seemed like I had visual flashes of my body that gave this strong sense. I was experiencing those flashes every few seconds or so, and I had a period of about 5-10 minutes where the flashes of two me/one me were happening so rapidly that that seemed to take up my whole field of experience and I was investigating what it felt like and just being swept into it. Cessations would happen rapidly, one after another, and at the crescendo of this thing I had this this sense of being obliterated or annihalated by the cessations and it seemed like there was more cessation than non-cessation they were so rapid and it was distinctly creepy and scary but was also pretty blissful.
I chalk this up to tuning the mind to conformity knowledge and wiggling between the no-self door and frution. So I guess your answer is "instantaneously/as long as conformity knowledge lasts" YMMV.
I experienced this phenomena where it was as if I was having flashes of experiencing myself outside of my body as another me for a split second before reconverging into one me. It was like my sense of self was being split in two. It seemed like I had visual flashes of my body that gave this strong sense. I was experiencing those flashes every few seconds or so, and I had a period of about 5-10 minutes where the flashes of two me/one me were happening so rapidly that that seemed to take up my whole field of experience and I was investigating what it felt like and just being swept into it. Cessations would happen rapidly, one after another, and at the crescendo of this thing I had this this sense of being obliterated or annihalated by the cessations and it seemed like there was more cessation than non-cessation they were so rapid and it was distinctly creepy and scary but was also pretty blissful.
I chalk this up to tuning the mind to conformity knowledge and wiggling between the no-self door and frution. So I guess your answer is "instantaneously/as long as conformity knowledge lasts" YMMV.
Brandon Michael Rohe,修改在2 年前。 at 21-8-7 上午11:46
Created 2 年 ago at 21-8-7 上午11:46
RE: How quickly can you go from fruition to the next fruition?
帖子: 17 加入日期: 21-6-1 最近的帖子Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö,修改在2 年前。 at 21-8-7 下午4:42
Created 2 年 ago at 21-8-7 下午4:42
RE: How quickly can you go from fruition to the next fruition?
帖子: 7134 加入日期: 18-12-8 最近的帖子Eudoxos ,修改在2 年前。 at 21-8-10 下午2:56
Created 2 年 ago at 21-8-10 下午2:47
RE: How quickly can you go from fruition to the next fruition?
帖子: 136 加入日期: 14-4-6 最近的帖子I had a really strange event where I had at least four cessations within a roughly 30-45 minute period. Is this normal for some people? The cessations were rather short in duration.
In "Path to Nibbana" (pg. 31-32) by Ajahn Jodok of Wat Mahathat (ven. Phra Dhamma Theerarach Mahamuni, also known as Nanasiddhi / Yanasiti etc; main teacher of Ajahn Tong Sirimangalo of Chom Tong):
Exercise 14
- Perform the mindful walking first, then proceed as follows:
- (a) Make a wish that in a period of one hour, the phenomena of arising and ceasing shall appear at least five times.
- (b) If within this hous the phenomena of arising and ceasing appear distinctly, at least five times and possibly as many as sixty-five times, reduce the period of the exercise to 30 minutes and make the wish that within these thirty minutes the phenomena of arising and ceasing shall appear to you several times.
- (c) Make a wish in the same manner and reduce the period of the exercise down to 20-15-10-5 minutes. Within 5 minutes the phenomenon should appear at least twice, but it may appear as many as six times.
- Alternate walking and sitting exercises for twenty-four hours.
A Dietrich Ringle,修改在2 年前。 at 21-8-11 下午1:52
Created 2 年 ago at 21-8-11 下午1:49
RE: How quickly can you go from fruition to the next fruition?
帖子: 881 加入日期: 11-12-4 最近的帖子Exercise 14
- Perform the mindful walking first, then proceed as follows:
- (a) Make a wish that in a period of one hour, the phenomena of arising and ceasing shall appear at least five times.
- (b) If within this hous the phenomena of arising and ceasing appear distinctly, at least five times and possibly as many as sixty-five times, reduce the period of the exercise to 30 minutes and make the wish that within these thirty minutes the phenomena of arising and ceasing shall appear to you several times.
- (c) Make a wish in the same manner and reduce the period of the exercise down to 20-15-10-5 minutes. Within 5 minutes the phenomenon should appear at least twice, but it may appear as many as six times.
- .Alternate walking and sitting exercises for twenty-four hours.
I did something rather similar to this and it ended well
A Dietrich Ringle,修改在2 年前。 at 21-8-11 下午4:45
Created 2 年 ago at 21-8-11 下午4:45
RE: How quickly can you go from fruition to the next fruition?
帖子: 881 加入日期: 11-12-4 最近的帖子Eudoxos ,修改在2 年前。 at 21-8-12 上午2:20
Created 2 年 ago at 21-8-12 上午2:20
RE: How quickly can you go from fruition to the next fruition?
帖子: 136 加入日期: 14-4-6 最近的帖子
Not only in review, but also in the first course. There are 12 exercises (as I see it the, ex 1 is for access concentration, then 1 per ñana, up to ex 12 for equanimity), then 3 determination exercises (13, 14, 15). Exercise 13 is a wish of clearer 3 characteristics ("May I be clearly aware of the coming-into-being and passing-away of all mental and physical phenomena appearing to the mind during twenty-four hours") , 14 is the one above.
Exercise 15 is for phala-samapati (extended fruition), wishing to attain "steady concentration" for 5 minutes, increasing the wish to 10, 15, ..., 1 hour, 2, 3, ... 24 hours (!) if it happens. "The number of minutes and hours is to be reckoned from the point of steady concentration with nonconsciousness onwards. In such a condition, we do not experience any feeling. The period wished for being fulfilled, consciousness will return of its own accord as in waking, but this is not waking."
See this thread about some details how this is done in Chom Tong (which is similar). As far as I know, there is no discrimination about paths; similar to Mahasi, where you just do noting and let it take care of the paths.
Exercise 15 is for phala-samapati (extended fruition), wishing to attain "steady concentration" for 5 minutes, increasing the wish to 10, 15, ..., 1 hour, 2, 3, ... 24 hours (!) if it happens. "The number of minutes and hours is to be reckoned from the point of steady concentration with nonconsciousness onwards. In such a condition, we do not experience any feeling. The period wished for being fulfilled, consciousness will return of its own accord as in waking, but this is not waking."
See this thread about some details how this is done in Chom Tong (which is similar). As far as I know, there is no discrimination about paths; similar to Mahasi, where you just do noting and let it take care of the paths.
Ben Sulsky,修改在2 年前。 at 21-8-12 上午7:38
Created 2 年 ago at 21-8-12 上午7:38
RE: How quickly can you go from fruition to the next fruition?
帖子: 170 加入日期: 19-11-5 最近的帖子
Lots of repeated fruitions definitely a thing.
For me, fruitions are always very quick, <1 second, but they do vary.
For me, fruitions are always very quick, <1 second, but they do vary.
A Dietrich Ringle,修改在2 年前。 at 21-8-12 上午9:42
Created 2 年 ago at 21-8-12 上午9:40
RE: How quickly can you go from fruition to the next fruition?
帖子: 881 加入日期: 11-12-4 最近的帖子
Is there one for re-observation?
I once hit equanimity after/during 2nd path and rather than investigate, I got a job at a local retailer. Well, re-observation/desire for deliverance came into focus again, so I quit my job and drove down to a local Thai monastery. I started doing walking meditation in the parking lot. I interacted some with the monks, but mostly just trying to accept water, food as they were offered to me. I stayed out in the parking lot all night and eventuallly hit reobservation again due to physical fatigue. That was after getting rained on in the parking lot. These exercises that you mention sound a lot like what I was doing (the arising and ceasing of equanimity). It worked but I eventually dropped down into the lower ~nanas and stayed there for a long time. Now I am 3rd path going strong with periodic glimpses into 4th. I don't know if I will ever hit solid 4th path, because it is too hard to diagnose.
Edit. I might have also been seen as the recipient of a medicine buddha practice on the part of the monks, as I was accepting food and nourishment from them (not what you typically see?)
I once hit equanimity after/during 2nd path and rather than investigate, I got a job at a local retailer. Well, re-observation/desire for deliverance came into focus again, so I quit my job and drove down to a local Thai monastery. I started doing walking meditation in the parking lot. I interacted some with the monks, but mostly just trying to accept water, food as they were offered to me. I stayed out in the parking lot all night and eventuallly hit reobservation again due to physical fatigue. That was after getting rained on in the parking lot. These exercises that you mention sound a lot like what I was doing (the arising and ceasing of equanimity). It worked but I eventually dropped down into the lower ~nanas and stayed there for a long time. Now I am 3rd path going strong with periodic glimpses into 4th. I don't know if I will ever hit solid 4th path, because it is too hard to diagnose.
Edit. I might have also been seen as the recipient of a medicine buddha practice on the part of the monks, as I was accepting food and nourishment from them (not what you typically see?)
Eudoxos ,修改在2 年前。 at 21-8-13 上午2:07
Created 2 年 ago at 21-8-13 上午2:07
RE: How quickly can you go from fruition to the next fruition?
帖子: 136 加入日期: 14-4-6 最近的帖子
The exercise for re-observation is just to make a wish for patisankha, forget about the wish and continue with the practice
The insight stages in this particular lineage are technically related to the way of walking/sitting (such as how many sub-steps one does, in a more fine-grained way than for Mahasi, for instance), but that is just a teaching tool, as I understand it.
The insight stages in this particular lineage are technically related to the way of walking/sitting (such as how many sub-steps one does, in a more fine-grained way than for Mahasi, for instance), but that is just a teaching tool, as I understand it.