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How I achieved Actual Freedom from Actual Freedom

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How I achieved Actual Freedom from Actual Freedom Luciano de Noeme Imoto 10/15/10 12:03 PM
RE: How I achieved Actual Freedom from Actual Freedom Luciano de Noeme Imoto 10/15/10 12:55 PM
RE: How I achieved Actual Freedom from Actual Freedom . . 10/16/10 10:21 AM
RE: How I achieved Actual Freedom from Actual Freedom tarin greco 10/17/10 8:57 AM
RE: How I achieved Actual Freedom from Actual Freedom Luciano de Noeme Imoto 10/18/10 12:40 PM
RE: How I achieved Actual Freedom from Actual Freedom . . 10/18/10 9:08 PM
RE: How I achieved Actual Freedom from Actual Freedom tarin greco 10/21/10 2:02 PM
RE: How I achieved Actual Freedom from Actual Freedom . . 10/18/10 9:23 PM
RE: How I achieved Actual Freedom from Actual Freedom Luciano de Noeme Imoto 10/20/10 2:07 PM
RE: How I achieved Actual Freedom from Actual Freedom . . 10/20/10 9:15 PM
RE: How I achieved Actual Freedom from Actual Freedom . . 10/21/10 5:04 AM
RE: How I achieved Actual Freedom from Actual Freedom Jason Lissel 10/20/10 10:09 PM
RE: How I achieved Actual Freedom from Actual Freedom My Fragile Ego 10/21/10 12:36 AM
RE: How I achieved Actual Freedom from Actual Freedom Jason Lissel 10/21/10 5:42 AM
RE: How I achieved Actual Freedom from Actual Freedom . . 10/21/10 6:21 AM
RE: How I achieved Actual Freedom from Actual Freedom . . 10/16/10 12:47 PM
RE: How I achieved Actual Freedom from Actual Freedom Daniel M. Ingram 10/16/10 4:51 PM
RE: How I achieved Actual Freedom from Actual Freedom Steph S 10/16/10 7:22 PM
RE: How I achieved Actual Freedom from Actual Freedom Luciano de Noeme Imoto 11/3/10 6:41 AM
RE: How I achieved Actual Freedom from Actual Freedom Trent . 10/15/10 1:40 PM
RE: How I achieved Actual Freedom from Actual Freedom Luciano de Noeme Imoto 10/15/10 2:35 PM
RE: How I achieved Actual Freedom from Actual Freedom Luciano de Noeme Imoto 10/15/10 2:54 PM
RE: How I achieved Actual Freedom from Actual Freedom Trent . 10/15/10 4:47 PM
RE: How I achieved Actual Freedom from Actual Freedom This Good Self 10/16/10 2:30 AM
RE: How I achieved Actual Freedom from Actual Freedom . . 10/16/10 10:20 AM
RE: How I achieved Actual Freedom from Actual Freedom Trent . 10/16/10 11:35 AM
RE: How I achieved Actual Freedom from Actual Freedom . . 10/17/10 12:13 AM
Upon this private message request:

Hi Trent,

As a moderator and arbiter of the DhO, I have become increasingly concerned with the general nature of your contributions to the forum. You seem to consistently engage in dead-end speculative arguments, seem to be consistently derailing otherwise harmonious and useful discussions, and seem to generally not be contributing anything that can practically help anyone in a direct way.


I only pointed disparities. After more than two years of full practice and investigation on AF I have some experiential knowledgement to argument and to refutate.
BTW, do you really agree with all Tarin wrote here? Do you really could claim achieved that physiological occurrence, centred at the nape of the neck, labeled by Richard as "Actual Freedom"?
Please, blink twice before answer this question to yourself.

The DhO is not about heavy handed moderation, so there has been and will likely be no censure of your posts unless they become even more wild. But, with that said, I think this presents to us an interesting opportunity.


So, now my posts are "wild"? emoticon
Man, I love your humour sense.

I request that you start a thread about your own practice, your own understandings of life, your experience with the methods and processes of achieving freedom from the human condition, and anything else you deem fit that is related, so that we may discuss these cordially and concisely in an appropriate place.


Maybe "How I achieved Actual Freedom from Actual Freedom"?

This is a win/win situation for all involved-- especially for you-- as it will allow you to further the goals that seem implied by your presence here. By creating a post to discuss such matters, and having discussed them with myself and the others thoroughly, you will be placed into a position that allows you to do one of two things: to see that you need to get back to practicing the methods which will ensure your personal AF, or to effectively aid the other forum participants in understanding and practicing the methods which will ensure their personal AF (as they would then be able to clearly see your command of the relevant topics at hand, and view you as a credible source for aid).


You are wrong: if Tarin and others (including you, Trent, not exception) still in this frivolous claims, the one-eyed leading the blinds will remains. So, not a win/win situation, but a mexican standoff to they (and you after some time).

Please let me know your thoughts about this, or simply create the thread I have requested.
Cool?


Always cool my fellow, but always sincere too.
It is very easy lie to yourself, and sometimes this event happens in one very insidious way.
About the thread, I have no intention of shaking things down or out or debating with anyone.
I hope - while you are reading this - you recognize so many familiar debate points from over the years (including the data from Kenneth Folk discussion forum), so we can move forward in our own discussions.
See you later,
Luciano

(to be continued...)

RE: How I achieved Actual Freedom from Actual Freedom
Answer
10/15/10 12:55 PM as a reply to Luciano de Noeme Imoto.
Before write about myself, I will talk about Richard (surname withheld), the founder of Actual Freedom Trust.

I transcripted and free adapted part of his maverick experience here. For the original text, see "A Brief Personal History."

Richard's experience was far more than an intellectual understanding. It was also deeply emotional and visceral, and shook him to his core.
Richard's questioning of life, the universe, and what becoming a completely free human being entails, started in June 1966 at age nineteen. At the time his body was inhabited by an "identity" with an extensive repertoire of feelings. A Buddhist monk in religious robes killed himself gruesomely as Richard watched by dousing himself with gasoline and setting it on fire.

The monk represented the "spiritual way to peace." Richard was a soldier in uniform, with a loaded rifle in his hand. He represented the "secular way to peace."

This was a major turning point in Richard's life. He had been raised to believe in "God, Queen, and Country."
Richard was shocked by the inhumanity of what both he and the monk had been doing. The political treatment of "subject citizens" was driven home to him, leaving him with a sick revulsion. He was appalled, horrified, terrified, and repulsed to his core.

Richard later realized that no one really knew what was going on. Nobody was really "in charge" of the world. There was nobody to "save" the human race. He saw that all supposed "gods" were false idols, figments of feverish imaginations. Richard saw and understood that he was as "guilty" as everybody else. There was "good" and "bad" in everyone. Some people were better at controlling their "dark side." But the "control" vanished during war and "evil" ran rampant.

Richard saw that the world was ruled by fear, aggression, nurture, and desire... and that he had been born with these instincts. He decided to change himself fundamentally, radically, and completely - to free himself from the "Human Condition."

In September 1981, Richard achieved "Spiritual Enlightenment" after an earnest and intense process that started in the January of that year. His "ego" disappeared completely duringo an awakening to "Absolute Reality." He lived in this "Enlightened State" for eleven years... with an intense conviction that someone had to develop the way that would "deliver the goods" so people could free themselves from the "Human Condition."

Then, in October 1992, Richard achieved a new condition very different from "Enlightenment" and a long way beyond it - a permanent and actual condition of complete emancipation and autonomy - no longer any sorrow or malice to rise above or transcend. He is no longer driven to "save the world," yet is free to speak with anyone genuinely interested in becoming totally free from the "Human Condition": sadness, loneliness, sorrow, grief, depression, suicide, corruption, domestic violence, rape, torture, murder, etc.

After a randomic brain mutation process that he suffered and delivered what he labeled by "Actual Freedom", Richard discovered the perfection, purity, and peace of being alive as a Flesh-and-Blood Body that has Come to its Senses. His experiential method, the Actualism, require Determination, Dedication, Pure Intent, and Perseverance to dismantle the Social Identity, causing a mutation of consciousness.

Richard anticipated that this "Actual Freedom" (i.e. mutation of consciousness) could spread like a chain-letter, bringing about global freedom and revolutionizing the concept of humanity. There would be a worldwide free association of people, a utopian-like loose-knit affiliation of like-minded individuals, citizens of the world. No more "sovereign states"; no "countries" with artificial borders; no military; no nationalism or patriotism; no police forces; no locks on the doors, no bars on the windows; no judges, juries, or jails; people living together in peace and harmony, happiness, and delight.

But none of this matters much once he live freely in his own "Actual World". In Richard´s Actual Freedom (a physiological mutation in the brainstem), life is experienced as perfect as-it-is here on earth.
The universe does not force anyone to be happy and harmless, to live in peace and ease, to be free of sorrow and malice. So the denizens of the Delusional World are likely to continue on their tried and failed ways.

So Richard claimed he lives in peace and tranquillity; beholden to none; no loyalty to bind him; nothing to defend; no need to attack; no sense of mission to "change the world"; not driven by mystical forces to evangelize, proselytize, or convert; yet available to assist anyone genuinely interested in virtual freedom from the "Human Condition."
And since december of the last year (2009) we are presented to a Direct Route to consolidate a virtually free achievement state, here on earth, as this body, in this lifetime.

To be continued...

RE: How I achieved Actual Freedom from Actual Freedom
Answer
10/15/10 1:40 PM as a reply to Luciano de Noeme Imoto.
Hi,

Luciano de Noeme Imoto:
Upon this private message request:


The message was sent privately for a reason. What is the point of putting this in front of others? This is my very point: the very nature of your response is disruptive to others and has little possibility of helping anyone in any way.

Luciano de Noeme Imoto:
As a moderator and arbiter of the DhO, I have become increasingly concerned with the general nature of your contributions to the forum. You seem to consistently engage in dead-end speculative arguments, seem to be consistently derailing otherwise harmonious and useful discussions, and seem to generally not be contributing anything that can practically help anyone in a direct way.


I only pointed disparities. After more than two years of full practice and investigation on AF I have some experiential knowledgement to argument and to refutate.
BTW, do you really agree with all Tarin wrote here? Do you really could claim achieved that physiological occurrence, centred at the nape of the neck, labeled by Richard as "Actual Freedom"?
Please, blink twice before answer this question to yourself.


I am hard pressed to see where you have pointed to any actual disparity, and in the case that you may have, I would find further difficulty spotting where you have done so in a way that is conducive to practical discussion. For instance, you seem to enjoy parroting Richard continuously (and often out of context or in a way which suggest a gross misunderstanding of him), linking to the AFTrust website in an incoherent manner, and so forth; all of which only vaguely implies that you may have an answer for someone. Care to prove me wrong and provide to me an example or two of your handy-work?

What use is your practice and investigation in this case if it has led to nothing fruitful for the other participants of this forum?

I do typically agree with all that Tarin writes here. If there is any difference in our opinion which warrants my interjection, I would speak it clearly, as we are two autonomous humans whom are capable of respectfully disagreeing.

I blinked four times just to be sure, and the answer remains the same: there is no suffering here.

Luciano de Noeme Imoto:
The DhO is not about heavy handed moderation, so there has been and will likely be no censure of your posts unless they become even more wild. But, with that said, I think this presents to us an interesting opportunity.


So, now my posts are "wild"? emoticon
Man, I love your humour sense.


Yes, quite wild; take your pick:

3. uncultivated, uninhabited, or waste
9. undisciplined, unruly, or lawless
12. unrestrained by reason or prudence
14. disorderly or disheveled

By the way, my humour sense is currently not coming into play in this exchange, as I am simply trying to get to resolve what I see to be a community issue.

Luciano de Noeme Imoto:
I request that you start a thread about your own practice, your own understandings of life, your experience with the methods and processes of achieving freedom from the human condition, and anything else you deem fit that is related, so that we may discuss these cordially and concisely in an appropriate place.


Maybe "How I achieved Actual Freedom from Actual Freedom"?


Although you decided to name this odd thread in such a way, I find no explanation of whatever it is you are talking about. Another wild post, eh? Care to explain?

Luciano de Noeme Imoto:
This is a win/win situation for all involved-- especially for you-- as it will allow you to further the goals that seem implied by your presence here. By creating a post to discuss such matters, and having discussed them with myself and the others thoroughly, you will be placed into a position that allows you to do one of two things: to see that you need to get back to practicing the methods which will ensure your personal AF, or to effectively aid the other forum participants in understanding and practicing the methods which will ensure their personal AF (as they would then be able to clearly see your command of the relevant topics at hand, and view you as a credible source for aid).


You are wrong: if Tarin and others (including you, Trent, not exception) still in this frivolous claims, the one-eyed leading the blinds will remains. So, not a win/win situation, but a mexican standoff to they (and you after some time).


And how is it that you think I am wrong? How is it that myself or others are making frivolous claims? Where is the blind leading the blind?

This is hardly a mexican standoff, by the way, as I am backed by the consensus of the other moderators (and the owner / founder) of this forum. Further, I can clearly see the "ban" button below your name, and I am certain you are not afforded the same.

Luciano de Noeme Imoto:
Please let me know your thoughts about this, or simply create the thread I have requested.
Cool?


Always cool my fellow, but always sincere too.
It is very easy lie to yourself, and sometimes this event happens in one very insidious way.
About the thread, I have no intention of shaking things down or out or debating with anyone.
I hope - while you are reading this - you recognize so many familiar debate points from over the years (including the data from Kenneth Folk discussion forum), so we can move forward in our own discussions.
See you later,
Luciano

(to be continued...)


You do not strike me as particularly sincere, actually. And you also do not seem to be particularly caring, either, as evinced by your "no intention of shaking things down or out or debating with anyone" despite what is at stake (the harmony and thus utility of this internet forum).

Trent

RE: How I achieved Actual Freedom from Actual Freedom
Answer
10/15/10 2:35 PM as a reply to Trent ..
Oh my gosh ...
Well, lets go:

The message was sent privately for a reason. What is the point of putting this in front of others? This is my very point: the very nature of your response is disruptive to others and has little possibility of helping anyone in any way.


After you sent privately to me, and once nothing was confidential, why not to share it?
Don´t be repent. My way to help is not like your way.
I am not interested in telling people what they want to hear. I will not compromise integrity for money, status and/or recognition.
What you get on my "wild" posts and threads represents my best effort to inform you honestly about the recent changes and implications into the actualism lingo. And knowledge like this belongs to all really interested in dismantle their social identity.

I blinked four times just to be sure, and the answer remains the same: there is no suffering here.


You lost the point. Anyone have moments of no felling or suffering in their daily life. You are not an exception. And again deviated from my question ...

By the way, my humour sense is currently not coming into play in this exchange, as I am simply trying to get to resolve what I see to be a community issue.


Ha... sorry to not facilitate your job.

Although you decided to name this odd thread in such a way, I find no explanation of whatever it is you are talking about. Another wild post, eh? Care to explain?


Easy, man, easy... patience. Did you not read in the botton of my last posts the "(to be continued...)" advice?

Further, I can clearly see the "ban" button below your name, and I am certain you are not afforded the same.


Feel free to ban me from your cybernetical actual world, but first let me finish this thread that you required from me, righ?

You do not strike me as particularly sincere, actually. And you also do not seem to be particularly caring, either, as evinced by your "no intention of shaking things down or out or debating with anyone" despite what is at stake (the harmony and thus utility of this internet forum).


Maybe a brute sincerity to some fragile skin.
"You" need to be more scratchproof in this business.
The apparent harmony and utility of this internet forum was to inform, to assist, to mentorship, not to perpetuate misconceptions about actualism. The purpose of this and others *discussion* groups was to build resources to people interested in quit from human condition´s neurobiological claws. For two years my primary goal has been to rationalize the actualism method so as to improve my practice and to others fellows.
Now I´m sharing this information upon your request.

(to be continued...)

RE: How I achieved Actual Freedom from Actual Freedom
pause
Answer
10/15/10 2:54 PM as a reply to Luciano de Noeme Imoto.
Sorry fellas, but I will re-reading two amazing books again.
So, best weekend for all.

Luciano

P.S.: ... in the next week I will post the continuation of this required thread. Be cool.

RE: How I achieved Actual Freedom from Actual Freedom
Answer
10/15/10 4:47 PM as a reply to Luciano de Noeme Imoto.
Hi,

Luciano de Noeme Imoto:
Oh my gosh ...
Well, lets go:

The message was sent privately for a reason. What is the point of putting this in front of others? This is my very point: the very nature of your response is disruptive to others and has little possibility of helping anyone in any way.


After you sent privately to me, and once nothing was confidential, why not to share it?
Don´t be repent. My way to help is not like your way.
I am not interested in telling people what they want to hear. I will not compromise integrity for money, status and/or recognition.
What you get on my "wild" posts and threads represents my best effort to inform you honestly about the recent changes and implications into the actualism lingo. And knowledge like this belongs to all really interested in dismantle their social identity.


Stating the inverse of my question does not resolve it. Are you not aware of why you did what you did?

I have not been repent in any way...did you mean to use another word?

I am not concerned with how you think you're helping; I am concerned with people eliminating their suffering in its entirety, and I don't think you're helping that right now. As such, you can be sure this is nothing personal. I am only saying that you may want to rethink your zeal until such a time when people are responding to your posts with "thank you, that was very helpful" or those posts lead them into one's home so that they may then discuss these matters, to which they say "thank you, that was very helpful." In other words: it will be pretty obvious if you're helping. Perhaps for now you could dare wrangle your advice back in and apply it to yourself, as you are currently doing little for others here.

You may sagely state your supposed integrity all you like, but as you have apparently already sold yourself out, stating this is to be parading your own delusions publicly about like a fool. What purpose is this serving for you? Are you happy doing this?

Luciano de Noeme Imoto:
I blinked four times just to be sure, and the answer remains the same: there is no suffering here.


You lost the point. Anyone have moments of no felling or suffering in their daily life. You are not an exception. And again deviated from my question ...


I have not deviated from the question as it is stated, if you care to reread my response. Perhaps you can ask it in another way?

I have also not lost the point, either. In fact, I found the point clearly enough that I am now an exception to the situation you purport (I do not experience suffering).

Luciano de Noeme Imoto:
By the way, my humour sense is currently not coming into play in this exchange, as I am simply trying to get to resolve what I see to be a community issue.


Ha... sorry to not facilitate your job.


I have not asked you to facilitate anything, so hey, no problem. If you have not noticed yet, that is not necessary to the function I am currently fulfilling. As you do seem to have some interest in these matters, I would prefer it if you stayed, learned, and achieved an AF for yourself. But I will also see to you being banned if you insist in carrying on with this worn out charade.

Luciano de Noeme Imoto:
Although you decided to name this odd thread in such a way, I find no explanation of whatever it is you are talking about. Another wild post, eh? Care to explain?


Easy, man, easy... patience. Did you not read in the botton of my last posts the "(to be continued...)" advice?


Ha. I am perpetually patient, I assure you.

Luciano de Noeme Imoto:
Further, I can clearly see the "ban" button below your name, and I am certain you are not afforded the same.


Feel free to ban me from your cybernetical actual world, but first let me finish this thread that you required from me, righ?


Sure, so long as you do stay on topic with the original thread of my inquiry (I am nonplussed as to the relevancy of your second post in this thread).

Luciano de Noeme Imoto:
You do not strike me as particularly sincere, actually. And you also do not seem to be particularly caring, either, as evinced by your "no intention of shaking things down or out or debating with anyone" despite what is at stake (the harmony and thus utility of this internet forum).


Maybe a brute sincerity to some fragile skin.
"You" need to be more scratchproof in this business.
The apparent harmony and utility of this internet forum was to inform, to assist, to mentorship, not to perpetuate misconceptions about actualism. The purpose of this and others *discussion* groups was to build resources to people interested in quit from human condition´s neurobiological claws. For two years my primary goal has been to rationalize the actualism method so as to improve my practice and to others fellows.
Now I´m sharing this information upon your request.

(to be continued...)


Brute sincerity...ha, that is such an odd thing to say. But anyhow, I assure you that I am utterly scratchproof, as I am completely invulnerable in the way that you are speaking of.

Yes, that is part of the utility of this forum. However, you are actually a perpetrator of the misconceptions as I see them, and that is the very reason why you found my private message awaiting you this afternoon.

I have never asked you to share your rationalizations about the actualism method; and I'm pretty sure I have never asked that of anyone. What I would ask of you is to sincerely put those methods to use for youself, so as to actualize a personal AF. And in the meantime, I also ask that you apply prudence to your future dealings on this forum, until such a time that your progress affords to you the sagacity necessary to enable your zealousness to be beneficial to the whole (as opposed to its current detriment). It is only a suggestion, mind you. Although, ignoring the latter of the two may result in your being banned from these forums.

Trent

RE: How I achieved Actual Freedom from Actual Freedom
Answer
10/16/10 2:30 AM as a reply to Trent ..
Hmmm.

I criticized both AF and Buddhism recently. Am I next to be banned for political dissidence?

Here's three very interesting statements you make trent:

"parading your own delusions publicly about like a fool". - pissed off are we? I don't consider Luciano at all deluded, and I have a very low tolerance for that as you'll see in my posts. It's obvious English is not his first language, and it seems you haven't allowed for this.

"ignoring the latter of the two may result in your being banned from these forums". - a threat. This is a bad look, no matter how annoyed you are. Where's your tolerance?

then this: "I have not been repent in any way...did you mean to use another word?". ....oh COME ON!! Who are you, his English Professor? I laughed out loud when i read this.

I don't get a lot out of Luciano's posts, and I find them hard to follow, so I tend not to read them any more. So what i do is I ignore most of them. Not all, most.

RE: How I achieved Actual Freedom from Actual Freedom
Answer
10/16/10 10:21 AM as a reply to Luciano de Noeme Imoto.
This is a useful post about Richard's chronoligical life, Luciano. Richard seems much more coherent (to me) now.

I do not know about the 'brain mutation' referred to and would want to know more about it.

But, basically, based on this post, I can see that a person (richard) became enlightened as to the conditions of mammalian human life ('the human condition') and its atrocious absurdities maximized in war, an exploitive event of power and pawns.

That person (richard) has made their complete break-through available to the world, but they are also quite content in their life now and do not need to be rustled by questors who will exist so long as there exist a handful of questing beings.

When you have paradise, it's not so fun to keep answering the doorbell, perhaps.

RE: How I achieved Actual Freedom from Actual Freedom
Answer
10/16/10 10:20 AM as a reply to This Good Self.
well, to be fair, C C C, Daniel does state that this is ultimately Daniel's site, which I would call a benevolent dictatorship versus his own 'frank dictatorship'

Daniel pays the bills for this platform, was the visionary behind it, started it, and thus, in the end, final decisions about what happens here are, for the moment, his. That said, this place couldn't happen without a wide range of talents and efforts from a wide range of people, and this place will only do well if there are people who feel that they are getting something out of it and able to contribute something to it, and so in reality, for most things, a mix of group consensus, individual action, and compromise drives the day to day governance of the thing, and thus, the reality what happens is generally an organic collective democracy tempered and augmented at times by frank dictatorship as a last resort.

http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/faqs

RE: How I achieved Actual Freedom from Actual Freedom
Answer
10/16/10 11:35 AM as a reply to This Good Self.
Hi,

C C C:
I criticized both AF and Buddhism recently. Am I next to be banned for political dissidence?


No one has been banned yet; as I have already stated: I don't want that to happen. Plus, the reason for this discussion has nothing to do with someone criticizing AF or Buddhism... I have no idea where you came up with this response.

C C C:
"parading your own delusions publicly about like a fool". - pissed off are we? I don't consider Luciano at all deluded, and I have a very low tolerance for that as you'll see in my posts. It's obvious English is not his first language, and it seems you haven't allowed for this.


I am not pissed at all, those are simply the words I have chosen to articulate the situation as I see it. I do think that he is quite deluded, but even if he wasn't, it would not matter in this case. Whether the situation is due to delusion or a language barrier, the majority of his posts still contain disruptive nonsense.

C C C:
"ignoring the latter of the two may result in your being banned from these forums". - a threat. This is a bad look, no matter how annoyed you are. Where's your tolerance?


I am simply stating the fact of the matter: the nature of his participation must change because it's a detriment to the community. This discussion is not the result of a personal whim of mine; I and others have been observing the situation for quite a while.

C C C:
then this: "I have not been repent in any way...did you mean to use another word?". ....oh COME ON!! Who are you, his English Professor? I laughed out loud when i read this.


Since I was not familiar with the word, I looked it up in a dictionary. None of the results-- nor my inferences from the word's etymology-- demonstrated that he had used a word which accurately described anything actually going on with me. So I politely asked if he had instead meant to use something else...

You and I must have much different senses of humor.

Trent

RE: How I achieved Actual Freedom from Actual Freedom
Answer
10/16/10 12:47 PM as a reply to Luciano de Noeme Imoto.
Hi all - I have removed this from SW's actual freedom thread (where it was for about four hours this morning until I posted the practice thread concept) and I would like the comparative lists (Richard:Luciano) to exist somewhere. Luciano, it is ok to put this here in your thrread?


I think for some people that Luciano's list can be a useful modified list of Richard's list and therefore will contribute to the interest and possible personal investigation in actual free/actualism effort.

To have both lists in one place, here they are. (If you know how to insert a table, please advise and I will add the below lists as a side-by-side columned table.)

Here is Richard's list:
Just for the record, then, here is a by-no-means exhaustive check-list of the main properties pertaining to an actual freedom from the human condition (in addition to the outstandingly magical property spelled-out further above):
1. No identity whatsoever.
2. No affective faculty at all (including its epiphenomenal psychic facility).
3. Utterly impervious to, and freely functioning without, both affective ‘vibes’ and psychic ‘currents’.
4. No separation (an actual intimacy) whatsoever betwixt this body and every body and every thing and every event.
5. Eternal time (no movement of time whatsoever) as expressed in, for instance, ‘this moment has no duration’.
6. Infinite space (the direct experiencing of limitlessness).
7. An apperceptive awareness (whereby all thought emerges from the full field of consciousness) of being alive/being here.
8. As a flesh and blood body only (sans the entire affective faculty/identity in toto) one is this infinite and eternal and perdurable universe experiencing itself as an apperceptive human being ... as such it is stunningly aware of its own infinitude.
And this is truly wonderful.


Here is Luciano's:
Despite of this fact, a surrogate check-list of the main properties pertaining to a consolidated virtual freedom - via direct route - from the human condition would be:
1. No social identity whatsoever.
2. No active affective faculty at all (including its epiphenomenal psychic facility).
3. Almost impervious to, and freely functioning without, both affective ‘vibes’ and psychic ‘currents’.
4. No conflict (an actual relationship) whatsoever betwixt this body and every body and every thing and every event.
5. Eternal time (no more psychological time movement whatsoever) as expressed in, for instance, ‘this moment has no duration’.
6. Infinite space (the direct experiencing of limitlessness [of the spatial universe]).
7. An apperceptive awareness (whereby all thought emerges mainly from the full field of consciousness) of being alive/being here.
8. As a flesh and blood body only (sans the entire affective faculty/identity in toto activated) one is this infinite and eternal and perdurable universe experiencing itself as an apperceptive human being ... as such it is stunningly aware of its own infinitude.

This is a commomsensical definition to consciousness mutation.

RE: How I achieved Actual Freedom from Actual Freedom
Answer
10/16/10 4:51 PM as a reply to Luciano de Noeme Imoto.
Dear Luciano,

Since you want to do this in public:

My general impression, albeit imperfect and subjective, is that you are becoming a bit of a troll.

However, I do get that you have real concerns that some who claim AF here don't understand it and don't actually have it and that you somehow know more about AF than they do.

These debates of attainment in public places get really old really fast, and I have seen them shake the DhO before and cause people who don't appreciate these ugly public clashes to go scurrying off, possibly to the determent of their own practice and ability to feel comfortable participating in a community forum.

I have been accused in the past of being too light in moderating this forum, and have to date only banned one user that I remember.

My suggestion is to have actual, personal, verbal conversations with the people you have problems with or leave it alone.

I find that, for instance in my own dealings with my dear and very long-time friend and Dharma Brother, Kenneth Folk, that on-line in forums we don't always do that well, but if we speak on the phone it is remarkable how much great stuff gets shared and worked out and we connect in the way that only friends with that long a history can.

In that same way, I suggest actual phone/skype/something similar conversations with those people you want to argue don't have a clue and see what comes of that or let it go.

I personally have benefitted greatly from the advice of some of those you are running into conflict with and see no attempts on your part to use this place as a place to benefit or support someone's actual practice in the way that makes me proud of the DhO and what it offers.

Thus, keep it practical, and if you want to get personal and combative over attainments, I really recommend doing that one-on-one in private and if you want to post a summary, ok, but realize that I am becoming annoyed, and as I claim no freedom from annoyance, that is just fine from that point of view.

In short, you are about to be more heavily moderated. It has been many months since anyone generated complaints, but you have managed to do it, despite your possibly kind intentions. If you want to discuss this with me, please contact me at my email address, found at www.interactivebuddha.com, and I will be more than happy to talk about this in depth.

Daniel Ingram
Founder and Owner of the Dharma Overground

RE: How I achieved Actual Freedom from Actual Freedom
Answer
10/16/10 7:22 PM as a reply to Daniel M. Ingram.
Daniel M. Ingram:

I personally have benefitted greatly from the advice of some of those you are running into conflict with and see no attempts on your part to use this place as a place to benefit or support someone's actual practice in the way that makes me proud of the DhO and what it offers.


In general it seems like the AF section of this message board has become very full with entire threads or posts within threads based on theory, hypothesizing, and generalizations. In the past, and at times currently, what I appreciate far above anything else about this forum is this - There are a lot of dedicated people, who are actively employing specific methods to get a certain set of results. Their various backgrounds and levels of experience have provided useful guidance to others who do not have the same background or level of experience. I learn well from others and value what other people who are more experienced than me say. Call it a wild card to be so "trusting" of strangers, but people are smart and if very honest with themselves can tell if advice is helpful or not. Over time, through lots of trial and error, it's quite obvious the practice advice I've garnered on this forum has been vastly, vastly helpful. For the most part I have ignored theoretical threads on DhO because that's not what I (nor I presume, most others) came here for. If I wanted to theorize I could go kick it with a bunch of intellectuals at any number of local universities (or whatever message boards they might have). I just want Actual Freedom, man. The way I'm doing that is by posting up my notes from practice, getting feedback from replies to those posts and occasional chats, and applying that feedback in practice. It has worked very well so far and I see tangible progress all. the. time. Let's get this back on track, friends, and practice diligently. Let's be a supportive and methodical based resource for each other. Post practice notes and give advice often to keep the momentum and prevent stagnation. That's how any viable community sustains.

Gettin it done,
Steph

RE: How I achieved Actual Freedom from Actual Freedom
Answer
10/17/10 12:13 AM as a reply to Trent ..
Hi trent,

you write:
I have never asked you to share your rationalizations about the actualism method; and I'm pretty sure I have never asked that of anyone.

What do you intend here?

RE: How I achieved Actual Freedom from Actual Freedom
Answer
10/17/10 8:57 AM as a reply to . ..
k a steger:
This is a useful post about Richard's chronoligical life, Luciano. Richard seems much more coherent (to me) now.

I do not know about the 'brain mutation' referred to and would want to know more about it.

But, basically, based on this post, I can see that a person (richard) became enlightened as to the conditions of mammalian human life ('the human condition') and its atrocious absurdities maximized in war, an exploitive event of power and pawns.

if you would like to know more about what happened to richard, you would be better served by reading his own account of it[1] than by going by luciano's 'free adapted' gross misinterpretation above. this is not the first time that luciano has compromised the integrity of richard's writing; in 2009, he plagiarised the af trust website, severely altered the text (and the integrity of its meaning) in translation, and passed it off as his own writing (complete with his own copyright replacing the AFT copyright which he removed)[2]. richard sent him a public cease and desist letter that october, almost a year ago today, and a correspondence on the subject explaining the how's and why's of this demand can be found here:
http://www.actualfreedom.com.au/directorscorrespondence/04AMatterofTranslation.html


as for the 'randomic brain mutation' luciano mentions, perhaps the reason you do not know about it is because it has no existence outside of luciano's imagination. richard has never claimed anything about the mutation he underwent to have been random, and further, as richard has verified that this mutation has since been reproduced in at least half a dozen others who had practised the actualism method, such a claim (that richard's mutation was random) can only come out of a gross misunderstanding of (or a wish to deliberately misrepresent) the facts. in that very same paragraph, in the above post which luciano purported to be a transcription and 'free adapt' of richard's autobiographical article, he two days ago wrote:

Luciano de Noeme Imoto:

After a randomic brain mutation process that he suffered and delivered what he labeled by "Actual Freedom", Richard discovered the perfection, purity, and peace of being alive as a Flesh-and-Blood Body that has Come to its Senses. His experiential method, the Actualism, require Determination, Dedication, Pure Intent, and Perseverance to dismantle the Social Identity, causing a mutation of consciousness.

...despite having had richard point out to him, in the aforementioned correspondence from last october, that the social identity is not the psyche:

Richard:

(...) there could be more to this needless editorship than just poor translating skills ... and a possible clue may be found in one of quite a few emails you posted to the Voadores Forum only last year. Vis.:
• : ‘... para nos libertar dos condicionamentos do ‘ego’ gerado pela paixões instintivas animais e da ‘psiquê’ gerada pela sociedade que precisa dar uma identidade uma persona, uma máscara, à esta entidade alienígena no corpo’. (http://br.groups.yahoo.com/group/voadores/message/83892)
: ‘... to free ourselves of the conditionings of ‘ego’ generated by the animal instinctive passions and from the ‘psyche’ generated by society that needs to give an identity, a persona, a mask, to the entity alien in the body’. [End Translation].
As what you are telling the corespondents on that forum is that society generates the psyche – in effect that the social identity = the psyche when it does not – then it is quite possible that it is a poor understanding which gives rise to the poor translations.]

as what brings about the mutation of consciousness that produces an actual freedom is not a dismantling of the social identity, but an extinction of the instinctual passions (and thus an extirpation of the psyche that arises from those passions' activity), then luciano here demonstrates that, as of yesterday, he has still not understood any better the purpose of actualism (and its end of actual freedom) than he did two years ago when he wrote to the voadores forum those words that richard quoted, nor any better than he did last year when richard pointed out the result of his 'poor understanding' in the above clear terms.

not only does luciano evidently lack an understanding of the actualism method or its goal necessary to be of assistance of others, he has cast baseless aspersions on other members on this forum (who either do or possibly do have those understandings and can be of such assistance), such as misappropriation[3]:
Luciano de Noeme Imoto:

AF is probably a randomic neurobiological mutation happened inside Richard and another fellow´s head/brain (see UG and Ms. Roberts).
You and company seems to be emulating that guys with a new (but borrowed) lingo from AF website.
But no problem: AF since 2010 started to be a "consciousness mutation" instead.


...subversion[4]:
Luciano de Noeme Imoto:

And the best way to "murder" someone or something is not by killing, but changing it to another direction. Even unintended.
Sometimes is necessary to remember people about the past to avoid the same old path, hence, that "slightly exaggerated" warning was and will be useful again.


...and opportunism[5]:
Luciano de Noeme Imoto:

Go ahead Tarin, but try not to transform HAIETMOBA in "How Am I Extracting That Money of Being an Actual free claimant?".
Only a suggestion, even cash on the barrel being much important to people comfort in this actual world economic system.


yet, such aspersions as these above intimations comes as no surprise when you consider that their source has engaged himself in:

ignorant misappropriation[6]:
Luciano de Noeme Imoto:

After a randomic brain mutation process that he suffered and delivered what he labeled by "Actual Freedom", Richard discovered the perfection, purity, and peace of being alive as a Flesh-and-Blood Body that has Come to its Senses. His experiential method, the Actualism, require Determination, Dedication, Pure Intent, and Perseverance to dismantle the Social Identity, causing a mutation of consciousness.


outright subversion[7]:
Luciano de Noeme Imoto:

Happily, to become virtually free today that physiological occurence is unnecessary. Probably that ‘lizard-brain’ mutation out of its primeval state is to much randomic to be artificially achieved.
So, the Direct Route is a consciousness mutation instead.
In this context, the *actual* and complete (or perfect if you want) AF still to be claimed by another human being since Richard in 1992.



and flagrant opportunism[8]:
[quote=Richard, regarding Luciano's now-defunct plagiaristic website]
Just to drive the point home here is what is printed in a bottom panel on the back cover of your RMC Flip Book ‘Introdução’:
• : ‘Adquira o exemplar completo (208 págs., impresso ou E-Book) acessando a seção ‘Livros’.’ .
• : ‘Get the complete sample (208 pp., Printed or E- Book) by going to the ‘Books’.’ [End Translation].
Here is the URL for the ‘Books‘ (‘Livros’): www.liberdadeatuante.com/conteudos/pglivros.asp
And by going to the ‘Books’ (as instructed) it soon becomes apparent that you offer two choices: a 13 x 19 cm, 208 page, paper book for R$ 20.00 or a 5MB, A5, 208 page, e-book for R$ 10.00.
On top of all that: on your ‘Inteligência Atuante Publicações’ page (www.liberdadeatuante.com/conteudos/pgiapublicacoes.asp) you are actively seeking donations (‘doação’) and sponsorship (‘patrocínio’) to pay for the publishing of your poorly translated and unauthorised renditions of material which is made available entirely free of charge by The Actual Freedom Trust.



luciano's delusional projections are thence par for the course.

meanwhile, of the 68 posts he has contributed since joining the dharma overground forum four months and two weeks ago (2 june 2010), in not a single one has he mentioned his own practice and its results (despite having been pointed to this site's mission statement within first month that he registered his membership[9] and having been directly asked to do so recently[10]); rather, he has evidently preferred to engage in the sort of speculation derived from armchair philosophising and psychologising that lends nothing to an experiential understanding of either actualism or an actual freedom. further, my experience with luciano's emails to the actualism-related groups/mailing lists in which we have both participated has shown that he has done much, though not entirely, the same in those places as well (to the extent that another list-member on the private, practically-oriented 'actualism' google group requested he write such off-topic emails elsewhere).

given all the above, if you wish to have accurate information about richard, his condition, and the method he pioneered then you would do far better to read richard's portion of the actual freedom trust website ('the third alternative') than the muddled 'transcription', free-interpretation, and wildly speculative commentary that luciano has provided on any of those topics... if for no other reason than that he has already been discredited as a reliable source of such information by the very man whose methods he purports to be presenting[11].


*


k a steger:

That person (richard) has made their complete break-through available to the world, but they are also quite content in their life now and do not need to be rustled by questors who will exist so long as there exist a handful of questing beings.

When you have paradise, it's not so fun to keep answering the doorbell, perhaps.

perhaps this selection[12] from richard's correspondence in november 2000 will make his lifestyle choice more clear:

Richard:

I will provide an example that illustrates why the Internet is my chosen means of dissemination for the obvious reason of being interactive and rapid. A self-confessed guru-seeker from the other side of the world came to see me, having had some contact with the actual freedom writings, with the view of being able to be finished with gurus forever. Every afternoon for nearly six weeks this person had a private face-to-face interaction – for four to six hours every afternoon for 39 days this person had a one-on-one intimacy – and then this guru-seeker went back to their guru.

yet, nine years later, in november 2009, he went on to write[13]:

Richard:

(...) I am not likely to be writing for too much longer, though, as there are other matters awaiting my attention (for most of the remainder of today and all of tomorrow, for instance, I will be otherwise engaged).
Also, a certain event has shown to me that my experience and, thus, expertise in matters pertaining to consciousness may nowadays be put to better effect (now that millions of words are freely available online) when on a one-to-one basis.
I am, of course, referring to a near-five month PCE incurred by such an interaction. (...)


...and a few days later[14]:

Richard:

Be that as it may ... the main reason I declined each and every personal-meeting request for twelve years is because words expressed thataway could vanish into the air whereas words written publicly – where others could join in – continued to exist after the initial conversation.
That way everyone benefited (including future readers).
Now that a vast body of actualism writings exist it does not matter if verbally expressed words were to vanish ... which is one of the reasons why I finally agreed to such a request earlier on this year (in March 2009) and another one only a month or so ago (for January 2010). (Plus, of course, my public offer on this forum, to another outstanding fellow human being, back in May this year).
The main reason, however, is the undeniable benefit of the event already mentioned (further above) ... to wit: a near-five month PCE incurred solely by such an interaction.

...and indeed, he did make himself available for meeting in-person: i first met richard in january/february this year, then did so again in july.

though, as he also wrote, in that same correspondence[15]:
Richard:

Please note how it is all experimental at this stage – and I do not now have an open-door policy – as there is no guarantee of anything of similar nature occurring (it may very well be a one-off event).

...then to continue with your metaphor, whether richard answers his door or not nowadays may depend on who's ringing the bell.

tarin

[1] the best place to start would be his 'a brief personal history' article.

[2]
Richard:

(...) What makes this even worse is how you have explicitly claimed copyright of both the plagiarised text and those purloined images on your ‘Terms Of Use’ web page and have expressly forbidden anybody else from doing what you have done yourself ... to wit: to publish, copy, display, distribute, transmit, show, modify, create derivative works from or sell any information, products or services. (...)

(http://actualfreedom.com.au/directorscorrespondence/04AMatterofTranslation.html#29Oct09, part two)

[3] http://dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/1078599#_19_message_1111974

[4] http://dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/1008037#_19_message_1033698

[5] http://dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/1078599#_19_message_1111974

[6] http://dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/1119482#_19_message_1119600

[7] http://dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/1119228#_19_message_1119228

[8] http://actualfreedom.com.au/directorscorrespondence/04AMatterofTranslation.html#29Oct09

[9] florian weps, a long-term dho member and moderator, posted this reply to luciano on the 29th june, 2010.

[10] trent h., a long-term dho member and moderator, sent him a private message, as luciano has publicly documented here: http://dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/1119482#_19_message_1119482

[11]
Richard:

Here is but one more example of editorial meddling...
(...)
...there could be more to this needless editorship than just poor translating skills...
(...)
...it is quite possible that it is a poor understanding which gives rise to the poor translations.

(http://actualfreedom.com.au/directorscorrespondence/04AMatterofTranslation.html#29Oct09)

[12]http://www.actualfreedom.com.au/richard/listafcorrespondence/listaf12e.htm#26Nov00

[13]http://www.actualfreedom.com.au/richard/listdcorrespondence/listd14a.htm#09Nov09

[14]http://actualfreedom.com.au/richard/listdcorrespondence/listd10.htm#11Nov09

[15]ibid.

RE: How I achieved Actual Freedom from Actual Freedom
open letter
Answer
10/18/10 12:40 PM as a reply to tarin greco.
To Tarin, Trent, Daniel Ingram and all fellows here,

About that precipitated – and promptly public domain - effort to launch actualism in another tongue in 2009, my first error was a bad translation. My English may not be as good as yours because I speak three languages. I write a little because my poor grammar skills and lack of conversation. So, no possibility to engage in some voice talking like Skype without subtitles and a lot of on-line dictionaries consults.
No excuses. My faults.
My second error was that “jumping-in boots and all” previous enthusiasm.
And the next error was permit AFT website assume copyright over my writings (and especially my writings on a public mailing list) and, what makes this even worse, had anonymized my name on it. This is improper too. But I´m a cool guy and don´t bother.

The aim was to care, to share information and actualized/updated data, investigations, researches and observations to compare notes and “spread the word”.
Fortunately, since that event and our public correspondences, some posterior non-fixed inconsistencies opened my eyes.
No point in talk about myself, my PCEs and my own previous particular life, which I yet made public on the Yahoo Group discussion list. Prospect there if you want (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/actualfreedom/).

Back to the here-now place and moment subject, my goal is not to promote Dharma, cultist movements or to send my fellows to meditation$ center$ and their dissociative practices and hard-core freak merchandising. And taking this opportunity to alert the Convivialists on duty: package tour$ in any ship is out of the question too.
The AF claimants and some people here really believe in their practices and will find any way, or do any thing, that will validate what they do. Except, of course, rethink their claims.
Or they are just in denial. I really don’t know.

Whatever the criticisms, I remain on friendly terms with all well-minded people here. Although I don’t want to become part of their “networking”, which seem to me an increasing mutual admiration society in which everyone’s claiming one supposed - and yet to be proved - AF achievement are accepted uncritically.
Again, I detected some disparities, contradictions and paroxysmals and still detecting new ones each time I read their dismissive and each time less commomsensical posts here.

Recently I also discovered some confidential informations about Mr. Richard (surname withheld) that show me another more pragmatical direct route to my own journey.
Freedom of choice is the key.
Compared to another newbie members here, I´m more than 2 years ahead in this researches and probably you will arrive in the same conclusions of mine after continuous observations and deep reading (also called “slow reading”).
Are you ingenious or ingenuous? Be careful which you use to investigate AF stuff and the actualism practice/process.
Only recently I agreed with a conclusion from a fellow blogger:
That seeking of "perfection" is due to an inability to bear the normal psychological pushes and pulls of life. It is an escape mechanism.

Today I know - by experiential and intellectual ways and some serendipitous discoveries and fortuitous assistances along this researches - that AF website content and its statements is the masterpiece of a single writer.
His book and semi biography (sic) are at most an attractive fantasy fiction, but a fiction at all, similar to L. Ron Hubbard, Carlos Castaneda and Paulo Coelho´s books. A “Third Alternative”, of course, into the dialectical approach.
[Note: In my experience it tends to be the more freaky ones (science fiction writers by example) that are the more innovative, the ones that stand out from the mold, but I am drifting off the point.]
I have spent almost three years to check this … hope your individual journey to be free from Actual Freedom labyrinthic path will end more quickly.
If any of you eventually need more information regard this issue, I could suggest five referential web sources today in order to get an idea where I’m coming from. Read these links, which cover a wide amount of topics and make interconnections which you not have previously considered.

http://harmanjit.blogspot.com/2010/03/epitaph.html

http://www.ugkrishnamurti.net/ (read “Mystique of Enligtenment”)

http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/1095285.Richard_Maynard

http://fishminogue.host-ed.net/investigations/FHA/evidence.html (just change “Jeremy Griffth” by “Richard” and “AF claimant” name and the coherence of that questionings for evidence still worth. By the way, on the Mr. Griffth´s australian website http://www.worldtransformation.com/ you also find a “paradigm shift” achievement too...

And the book “The Future of the Self” by Mr. Truett should be useful to allow a better vision of this subject and its implications in your life, health and general relationships in the internet/web.
I personally do not need to know every thing there is to know about Richard (surname withheld) and all that fast on-demand crop of AF claimants, for example, to realize that some of the things I am aware points to another direction – indoctrination - knowing what I do about their today. But again that is my personal view. You can take it or leave it.
About the “consciousness mutation” and “paradigm-shattering breakthrough” concepts, after you - better late than never - understand the human condition´s neurobiological mess inside your head ruling your thoughts and behaviors, it will be like to hit a Peak in Darien subjective and exceptional consciousness experience.
In my case this was not a temporary and ephemeral conquer.
So, to achieve an actual consciousness mutation as one consolidated “virtual freedom”, what you need is to understand our neurobiological bondage, both genetic and cultural inputted conditioning. However, that alleged “physiological mutation” into the human skull is an organic, rare and randomical reboot of the human brain due some unknown blind nature evolutionary mechanism. One which is debatable whether it would work to specie survival, but would most definitely not work to allow a commonsense discussion. Especially when people live in one false democracy ruled by gods and guns, I wonder what your rationale is for doing what you are doing …
To be fully aware of the human condition it is not recreation, it is not religion, it is not about marketing or appealing to what people enjoy. It is for people that walk in the door wanting to learn for real how to handle themselves in this dynamic and objective universe.
Don’t waste your time and investiment searching to be one more self-declared actually free person.

If you choose to ignore this advice, which you probably will, then here is some more.

The first thing you have to do is challenge your own beliefs at every level before you can even begin to change or influence the beliefs of others. You’ve got to develop objective criteria by which to judge everything you see within the human condition field. And this was not, is not and will be not easy.
Be your own worst critic.
Challenge yourself and chosen convictions from every angle. This allowed me to make radical changes and be somewhat “wild”. I have no vested interest in all the trappings of success. I’m just a happy and harmless guy to my peers.

And this is what I had suggest you become. This is my best advice.
Therefore, this is my last topic thread here and there.
Sincerely,
Luciano

RE: How I achieved Actual Freedom from Actual Freedom
Answer
10/18/10 9:08 PM as a reply to Luciano de Noeme Imoto.
I understand that Luciano's presence has not been welcome by all, but, for me, I have appreciated that the range of ideas was expanded and this expanded range did not impede my sensateness when I choose and chose to be sensateness.

Thanks for allowing the post and thanks for posting.

RE: How I achieved Actual Freedom from Actual Freedom
Answer
10/18/10 9:23 PM as a reply to tarin greco.
Tarin -

I also appreciate your background and ample links, too. It is better to have some awareness of these conflicted histories sooner rather than later.

Thank you.
___

(regardless, this sensateness ('practice') is unaffected; it proves its worth on its own. thanks to everyone for keeping it fostered and tutored)

RE: How I achieved Actual Freedom from Actual Freedom
Answer
10/20/10 2:07 PM as a reply to tarin greco.
Hi folks,
How are you?
I'm feeling really great, thanks for asking.

Apologies for missing a couple of days to write my swan song. I am managing my gym and it's been taking up a lot of my time.

Human being seems to measure your life by the achievement of goals (Money, Utopia, God, Nirvana, Paradise up and/or down, Actual Freedom, Convivialism ...).
I don't, and neither do most people who are actually sensible.
Are you also immune to any influences?
It is our choice never to be entrapped into somebody´s alternative.

Think about:
If you were to get attached to any interpretation of your pleasant mind escapes (a.k.a. Pure Consciousness Experiences), and take one single interpretation as guideline, then you would be denying yourself the opportunity of new peak experiences and learning.
In the kingdom of the mind, what one believes to be PCE becomes PCE, within certain limits to be found experientially and experimentally. The more you believe it, the more it starts to become “actual” for you.

There is always a denial with these kinds of anomalous experiences, where you think the interpretation given by someone is the actual experience and ultimate mission.
Even if you were to ameliorate that second-hand interpretation, you deny it because you have so much invested in it ... hence, you find yourself forcing yourself to fit that interpretation, even though it becomes nonsensical, because you are too zealous and fearful of letting it go.

And this is a big, a BIG mistake to make.

Many people assume that only religious interpretations of PCE cause and sustain sufferings and leverage supraselves (i.e. Altered States of Conscience).
That’s no more the case after Internet advent.
No matter how the "Third Alternative" interprets the exceptional human experiences, whether via HAIETMOBA, overwrought explanations and method invented to allow it, the interpretation is still not that natural spontaneous experience.
You will go back into 3D life, my fellow, sooner or later!

I dispelled the fantastic and fantasized actualist myth (PCE, Actualism, Actually Free claimants, Convivialists and so on).
I do attribute the AFT´s interpretations and dialectical language used by Richard to express his experience as being from his cultural background, writer career and personal psychological make up. Some people want to live through their work and children. But these people also want to live through their books, their claims and their followers.
Like Richard (ironically?) answered to me:
“…the only imminent menace to humanity (to use your term) is gullibility.”
But human being idolize lone wolves, eccentrics, personalities, even if some of them are nuts …

I remember when I sat down to write out my open letter to submit to this website.
It was a hard task for me due my bad English grammar, but mainly because whatever words I write could deviate you from your own query… and I didn´t want to take away your well-deserved reward by debunk Actual Freedom via your own brain in action.
I runned the risk writing it, committing some not edited errors, focused only to found some indicative clues to warn you.
I hoped that no one was going to take my posts like a wet blanket troll. If you did, you would be losing the point fooling your senses.

Is this flogged issue of self-suggestion, subliminal persuasion/stimuli and sophisms misuse to allow whatever freedom from human condition over, finished, kaput?
I might say this much, though: did Mr. Richard (surname withheld) fictitious ‘self’/ ‘Self’-immolation in 1992 signify the last of fully freed flesh and blood body to bestride the actual-world?
Put differently, why are the subsequent crop of so-called actually free people of the just-add-water-and-stir variety?
Earlier I still wondered how such claims caught my attention despite its blatant implausibility.
I got some hints and tips, also by fortuitous serendipity, after I found a little book in one brazilian bookstore (translated to portuguese!) wrote by an australian professional writer 24 years ago ... “The Coconut Book”!
So, I´m delivering my – no more so confidential – sources on your hands:

http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/1095285.Richard_Maynard

http://www.trafford.com/Bookstore/BookDetail.aspx?Book=184631

http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/1112167

Some people could argue:
"- But doesn´t matter if the man is a storyteller!"
Spend some time slow reading over his previous fantastic and science fiction books (the synopsis are enough to notice variations of the same theme: futurology), and you will also understand why actualism, not in toto, is a well-meaning trap. Just make the links and fill the gaps by yourself.
Unfortunately all this was allowed when we were quite gullible by the enticement from PCE descriptions that we read and experienced.
So, I laid out my beliefs and "convictions" in front of my eyes and examined them very carefully: I found many of them outdated, silly, untested and/or false. And this dismantling is a continuous non-stop process.

The AF toolbox, like any attentiveness practice, could be pretty used both to allow a virtual freedom as to denial human condition.
In one Darwinian vision we are inherently altruistic inside. Without such cooperative and gregarious instincts our species would not have survived. However, in the roots a primal ego was ready to be harboured. Our behaviour socially and culturally conditioned for milleniuns was and is very insidious and cunning, throwing multiples veils of mechanicities (emotions, feelings, habits, moods, psittacisms, beliefs, etc) over our recent modern conscience (more about the conscience topic, please also consult the theory of Mr. Julian Jaynes) buried under layers and layers of chaotic ideologies and memes.

A type of hybrid between dialectics and sophistry is artfully used on AFT website, Richard´s Journal and DVDs for sale, to deviate and impeach deep investigations and criticisms on this issue. But look at to subtle paroxysmals on that labyrinthine correspondences, dialogues, requests and diatribes scattered along the AFT website with and this recent events correlated on this discussion (sic) forum: the sand castle will drop by itself.

AFT website and its content stuff is a masterpiece from a single writer. An attractive semi fiction at most for anyone genuinely interested in the australian´s way of life (also see Ms. Rhonda Byrne, Jasmuheen, Paul Wilson, Jeremy Griffth and … indeed a growing list).

It will not so difficult for you to publicly accept that, like me, you were enthusiastic about something weird not worth your time.
Or experiment to use an approach very easy and pragmatic: "the proof of the pudding". This is the method that never failed me until now.
To achieve an actual relief is not so difficult at all: better late than never.

Be actually free from Actual Freedom too!

This so long-awaited state could cause a huge internal consciousness mutation shift within you. You don’t need to have a pathetical gotcha experience (PGE) for this down-to-earth manumission to happen. Just burn the bridge and – why not? – founder that ship (metaphorically). But don´t talk about these polemic things on discussion groups unless you are very thick skinned.

Althought it is a hypothesis, I don´t discharged an eventual body/mind freedom from ego and psyche (Mother Nature is really blind). This – yet to be catalogued – possibility to a large degree opened my head. Nevertheless I don't let my brain fall out.
My goal is not load quarrels or intellectual fritter away debates.
Perfection is a process, a constant process and because this aspect, never complete. It is a perfectly imperfect universe if you prefer. That´s enough to be apperceptive experiencing it.
The problem starts when all that lingo labeling and dressing the universe with teleological attributes unconsciously gathered from ancient dogmas resurface ...
It is necessary to separate the wheat from the chaff.

About this peril I sent the following post:

"The word "universe" is a very insidious term. Be careful.
If you change this word by another more commom term (God, for example), so you have another religion, even without the material and/or spiritual content attached to it.
And human being like us, you and me, have an essentialist vision of the world. Join this vision with actualism, and we will obtain new sub-products.
And this emulation could lead to confusion.
An example:
When you divide people in two groups (like AF and Human Condition people), using a borrowed criterion (from a book or website, don´t matter), you will be favorable to your side. Jump some years ahead and, mutatis mutandis, we have fundamentalism even without the material and/or spiritual content attached to it.
Essentialism is a trap in the actualism path, and perverts the common sense.
The universe is commonly defined as the totality of everything that exists.
To borrow an Aristotelian [or Taoist] approach over it is an old error."

This is the major initial menace I see on this trail. And new types of ASCs during the actualism process/practice has great chance to occur. Mainly in places ample by young neo-buddhists.

In short, this cyber world are exponentially fully infected with self-awarded expert´s versions of life and its meaning.
Quoting Bartleby, the Scrivener:
"I would prefer not to."
Finally this is my last post here and there.
Let´s move on!

May you live well, and be wildly joyful and kind.

Luciano

RE: How I achieved Actual Freedom from Actual Freedom
Answer
10/20/10 9:15 PM as a reply to Luciano de Noeme Imoto.
Hi Luciano - useful post! Excellent use of the English language (certainly better than my own native usage). And, to end with Bartleby, this practically tickles me I like it so much.


Getting down to brass tacks [1]:

You write:
The more you believe it, the more it starts to become “actual” for you.

Yes! And I think of this as the treasure in the AF trove:
1 - To develop conviction in the plausibility of no self means one may actually achieve no self.
2 - After which point one directly knows mu (nothingness) and can play in being the ephemeral existence of a human, with a who-knows/cares-what view on after-death concepts.

Here is another master (Keido Fukushima) on the subject of "empty of self":
"The experience of mu may at first glance seem purely negative or passive," he says, "but it is not so at all. Being mu, or empty of self, allows one to actively take in whatever comes. Our world today and all in it are separated into dualistic distinctions of good and evil, birth and death, gain and loss, self and other, and so on. By being mu, not only does one's self-centeredness disappear, the conflicts that arise with others dissolve as well. Here is a simple example: When we look at a mountain, we tend to observe it as an object. But if we are mu, we no longer see the mountain as an object; we identify with it; we are the mountain itself. This transcendence of duality may sound like some psychic ability or spiritual power someone possesses. But that is not true. Rather, it is simply and naturally a case of being free, creative, and fresh. We become human beings full of boundless love and compassion."


Having many names for the condition of empty of self/no self/actual freedom, ( all of the afore aka, "La Blah Blah") is really great for preventing one's counterproductive adherence to an Actual Freedom/no self/empty/La Blah Blah.

It is critical to be free of La Blah Blah to actually be no self/empty/actually free and able to <be> everything, now.

emoticon obrigadinho, Luciano!

_____

[1] an oldy fashioned way of 'getting it done' (boats, boots, upholstery...)

RE: How I achieved Actual Freedom from Actual Freedom
Answer
10/21/10 5:04 AM as a reply to Luciano de Noeme Imoto.
In Siddhartha Guatama's time, he was surrounded by the concept of Atta, Self, a Brahmanic culture holding a belief and respect/fear of the many selves of rebirth - lower or higher than one's current station.

In Gautama's time the realization of no inherent self (an absolute equivalence with all life and all lives' condition of death) causes the belief, fear and arising contrivances of 'rebirth' to become meaningless/of no concern/ non-existent to such free persons, enlightened ones, ones empty of self. Hence to realize no self would realize no rebirth, exit from the cycle of existence. To the extent one realizes no self, then this is the extent to which one is free to live one's own life and determine its boundless or bonded nature. Similarly, a modern person may find their life based on assumptions, desires and contrivances which have limited bearing on the reality of existence.

Other buddhist doctrine -- that outside of anatta, anicca, dukkha -- is buddhist psychology and/or practice through which to coach people 'home'; buddhism is to no self as actualism is to AF.


[EDITED one hour after post to hone in on better word choice]
[EDIT 2: next morning 6:00 a.m. very last phrase clarified upon waking up (literally, not that Waking Up ;)

RE: How I achieved Actual Freedom from Actual Freedom
Answer
10/20/10 10:09 PM as a reply to . ..
I don't really understand what Luciano says. I know he denies that anyone except Richard is AF, even though Richard himself has verified that others have achieved AF. I don't know what his rationale is for this steadfast denial. But it doesn't matter anyway because isn't AF about experiencing AF for yourself (not believing in anything)?

Is there anyone here, who has had a PCE where their identity was clearly in abeyance, think that Luciano has never actually had a full on PCE? In my understanding, a PCE is a factual experience. You can verify what it was by knowing its attributes, just as you can verify an object by its description. You don't need to believe anything into existence. So when Luciano implies that an experience (a PCE) is only a PCE if you believe it to be a PCE, doesn't make sense.

RE: How I achieved Actual Freedom from Actual Freedom
Answer
10/21/10 12:36 AM as a reply to Jason Lissel.
Jason L:
I don't really understand what Luciano says. I know he denies that anyone except Richard is AF, even though Richard himself has verified that others have achieved AF. I don't know what his rationale is for this steadfast denial. But it doesn't matter anyway because isn't AF about experiencing AF for yourself (not believing in anything)?

Is there anyone here, who has had a PCE where their identity was clearly in abeyance, think that Luciano has never actually had a full on PCE? In my understanding, a PCE is a factual experience. You can verify what it was by knowing its attributes, just as you can verify an object by its description. You don't need to believe anything into existence. So when Luciano implies that an experience (a PCE) is only a PCE if you believe it to be a PCE, doesn't make sense.


Hi Jason

You're right, you can verify it for yourself, and you don't need to believe anything into existence to come to terms with what actualism is all about. It's not always as easy or cut and dried as that, however. emoticon

I agree, saying that about a PCE doesn't make much sense - to an actualist. I suspect I can see the perspective from which it makes sense though - the 180 degree opposite to actualism perspective where all experiences are perfect already, and suffering can be beautiful in it's own way.

I suspect Luciano hasn't had a really clear PCE in a while.

In my experience the most important qualities of the PCE can be very easily forgotten and become really hard to access as soon as the PCE is over. In time, after failing to reliably reproduce PCEs in one's own practice, it is possible to lose ones way complete. I've gone months between PCEs and at that point it becomes more about imagination, faulty memory, and other modes of experience being mistaken for PCEs. It's surprisingly easy to do emoticon

Further, if one starts inclining towards the spiritual/mystical/meditative side of things, the 180 degrees opposite stuff, one can become convinced that Richard is deluded and has pulled a con-job on everyone, or even that actualism is dangerous. Nondual states can be mistaken for the PCE, and then all the statements made by actualists start to seem really crazy. The frame of reference has been lost/forgotten - that's if it was every had in the first place (PCE) and not just taken on faith.

Even after experiencing really clear PCEs I have spent significant periods of time in both of those murky territories.

Luciano is not the first actualist to turn away from what's on offer... I believe that ultimately, anyone who has been practicing actualism for some time, and is not yet actually free, is making the same types of choices (leading one away from the actual world) in very subtle ways during every moment they're not in a PCE. I know I do.

Also I just wanted to say that I'm really glad that the moderators acted the way they did. Thanks guys. It's a heck of a lot easier not having these kinds of misleading posts peppering every thread! Also it's such a waste for those who can contribute the most high quality stuff here to spend their valuable time responding to trolls.

Craig

RE: How I achieved Actual Freedom from Actual Freedom
Answer
10/21/10 5:42 AM as a reply to My Fragile Ego.
Oh, so we don't actually need a guide (Luciano) to help us become free from actual freedom since it's bound to start happening anyway. The pitfalls are wide and varied emoticon

RE: How I achieved Actual Freedom from Actual Freedom
Answer
10/21/10 6:21 AM as a reply to Jason Lissel.
HI Jason L -

you write:
But it doesn't matter anyway because isn't AF about experiencing AF for yourself (not believing in anything)?
I agreed with your point. Use what you find useful.

I also find that accepting someone else's existence (who's ideas may be senseless to 'you') is an effective way to confirm for yourself that 'you' and 'not you/Other' are equally significant in life.
-- This is useful at a harmonious societal level: utopias that would profess perfection in adherence to certain rules/beliefs, and the exclusion/punishment of 'Others', are usually genocidal experiments lead by cruel sorts with increasingly smaller tolerances of 'not like me/us'.
-- This is useful at a personal level, as it can avail a person to a more massive wikipedia: all that exists. We constantly find more of 'all that exists' by secondary means (meditation, telescopes, programming, painting,etc), suggesting limitlessness.

You also write:
In my understanding, a PCE is a factual experience. ... You don't need to believe anything into existence. So when Luciano implies that an experience (a PCE) is only a PCE if you believe it to be a PCE, doesn't make sense
.
From my experience and rote memory, belief is extremely potent, if not creating everything. I do not know; there may be constraints in being human.

Belief gets us to a lot of places. What makes belief not a factual experience?

Is belief affective (def: relating to moods, feelings, and attitudes)?
Is belief factual (def:S: (adj) actual, factual (existing in act or fact) "rocks and trees...the actual world"; "actual heroism"; "the actual things that produced the emotion you experienced from (http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=factual))

That which is deemed factual, 'existing in fact', is constantly expanding, not necessarily through new arrivals, but also through new understandings.

Maybe all beings, in their leisure time a part from direct survival activities, wonder what it is/wish to be absolutely objective, no perspective/all perspectives, omnipotent, God, enlightened, actually free.

RE: How I achieved Actual Freedom from Actual Freedom
Answer
10/21/10 2:02 PM as a reply to Luciano de Noeme Imoto.
Luciano de Noeme Imoto:
To Tarin, Trent, Daniel Ingram and all fellows here,

About that precipitated – and promptly public domain - effort to launch actualism in another tongue in 2009, my first error was a bad translation. My English may not be as good as yours because I speak three languages. I write a little because my poor grammar skills and lack of conversation. So, no possibility to engage in some voice talking like Skype without subtitles and a lot of on-line dictionaries consults.
No excuses. My faults.
My second error was that “jumping-in boots and all” previous enthusiasm.
And the next error was permit AFT website assume copyright over my writings (and especially my writings on a public mailing list) and, what makes this even worse, had anonymized my name on it. This is improper too. But I´m a cool guy and don´t bother.

the af trust makes anonymous by default the identities of all those who engage in correspondence with richard and other trust members in order to protect their privacy; were you to have bothered asking them to publish your name (like, say, konrad swart or jayahn saward did), they would surely have done so. as you wrote, however: you didn't bother. as any comparison between this alleged impropriety of theirs and the blatant impropriety of plagiarising, 'translating' (interpolating), and offering up for sale their copyrighted work (with their copyright removed and your own copyright added) that you have perpetrated can only be a product of bizarre reasoning or, more likely, plain dishonesty, then needless is it to ask: pointing fingers much?


Luciano de Noeme Imoto:

The aim was to care, to share information and actualized/updated data, investigations, researches and observations to compare notes and “spread the word”.
Fortunately, since that event and our public correspondences, some posterior non-fixed inconsistencies opened my eyes.

as you insisted, by virtue of your 'translation' (which purpose you here purport was 'to care' and 'to share information and actualized/updated data'), that 'violence and bitterness' are more adequate descriptors of what the af trust determined to be 'malice and sorrow'[1], then what you really mean by 'actualized/updated data' is 'altered data'. however, altering the data in this fashion was nothing new for you; the previous year, you wrote to another online forum the following[2]:
Luciano de Noeme Imoto:

‘... para nos libertar dos condicionamentos do ‘ego’ gerado pela paixões instintivas animais e da ‘psiquê’ gerada pela sociedade que precisa dar uma identidade uma persona, uma máscara, à esta entidade alienígena no corpo’.

translation:

‘... to free ourselves of the conditionings of ‘ego’ generated by the animal instinctive passions and from the ‘psyche’ generated by society that needs to give an identity, a persona, a mask, to the entity alien in the body’.


as this misconception you held as early as two years ago (which richard last year attempted to correct[5]) you, only last week, demonstrated once more (earlier in this thread):
Luciano de Noeme Imoto:

[Richard's] experiential method, the Actualism, require Determination, Dedication, Pure Intent, and Perseverance to dismantle the Social Identity, causing a mutation of consciousness

...then it may be a stretch to say that your eyes are open... they certainly aren't open wide enough to properly read what others have written, at any rate.

the alternative explanation, of course, is that the misunderstanding is no misunderstanding at all, and that you deliberately intend to distort the meaning of what an actual freedom from the human condition is by watering down such to mean merely the '[dismantlement of] the social identity'. this would not be surprising, as such watering down is precisely what you have accused the actually free members of this forum of[3]... needless is it to ask: projection much?


Luciano de Noeme Imoto:

No point in talk about myself, my PCEs and my own previous particular life, which I yet made public on the Yahoo Group discussion list. Prospect there if you want (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/actualfreedom/).

the dho is not the actual freedom yahoo list, and as most participants here are not participants there they cannot be expected to read through the hundreds of emails you have written there over the past two years under multiple aliases to determine what experience of actualism you have actually had that supports the ostentatious and outrageous claims you have made here (affecting the discourse on this site). to now point (and for the first time) those who ask after your practical experience in that vague general direction (of a sprawling list of now more than ten thousand emails) is churlish... and is the behaviour of someone lacking any record of experience to point directly at.

while there is no rule on the dho dictating that one must post one's practical experience in order to participate (there is no established custom of requiring it), it is expected that one is able and willing to back up the claims and statements one makes, especially when requested to, for the sake of keeping the discourse here focused and high-level. the emphasis on direct experience valued here is made clear on this website's front page and was specifically pointed out to you by another member within the first month of your registration[4].


Luciano de Noeme Imoto:

Back to the here-now place and moment subject, my goal is not to promote Dharma, cultist movements or to send my fellows to meditation$ center$ and their dissociative practices and hard-core freak merchandising. And taking this opportunity to alert the Convivialists on duty: package tour$ in any ship is out of the question too.

coming from someone who was all-too-willing to plagiarise the writings of his fellows (without first even understanding them), translate them so poorly (as to alter their meaning), remove their copyright (and insert his own), and offer them to an unsuspecting public for sale (with all proceeds going into his own pocket), your attempt to project onto others your fantasies of money-making $chemes is as glaringly transparent as your attempt to distance yourself from those fantasies.


Luciano de Noeme Imoto:

The AF claimants and some people here really believe in their practices and will find any way, or do any thing, that will validate what they do. Except, of course, rethink their claims.
Or they are just in denial. I really don’t know.

what the actually free people here understand and fully acknowledge is how 'their' practice of the actualism method enabled (in 'them') the actualism process to take place and to culminate in 'their' extirpation (and so to result in the extinction of 'their' instinctual passions - that is, the instinctual passions in toto).

the only one here in denial of anything is you, and what you are denial of is that richard's actual freedom was a result of his efforts and intent (and not a 'randomic brain mutation' as you have wildly speculated[6]) and that anyone besides richard (or u.g. krishnamurti, or bernadette roberts, or whomever[7]) can become actually free without undergoing that 'randomic brain mutation'. this is to say: you are in denial that anyone can become actually free due to their efforts and intent.

this is because 'you' do not understand that 'you' are what's in the way of the actual world being experienced as already the case ... nor do 'you' understand that 'you' are the key for enabling that (such experience) to occur.


Luciano de Noeme Imoto:

Whatever the criticisms, I remain on friendly terms with all well-minded people here. Although I don’t want to become part of their “networking”, which seem to me an increasing mutual admiration society in which everyone’s claiming one supposed - and yet to be proved - AF achievement are accepted uncritically.

contrary to this fantasy of yours, there is no mutual admiration society of actually free people at the dho, nor have i accepted anyone's claim of actual freedom here uncritically (i have been thoroughly critical). as for what others accept or do not, that is their decision to make, and i only see fit to write a response to their public thoughts when i see some benefit in doing so, or when it would clearly be a detriment to not respond (such as when someone with a poor understanding of actualism repeatedly contributes their pseudo-authoritative distortions and theories of intrigue to thread after thread, derailing sensible discourse).


Luciano de Noeme Imoto:

Again, I detected some disparities, contradictions and paroxysmals and still detecting new ones each time I read their dismissive and each time less commomsensical posts here.

as you do not substantiate these claims of disparity, contradiction, and paroxysm any whatsoever there is nothing i can respond to, and given the context in which you have made those claims, i cannot but assume that you have imagined them similar to how you have clearly imagined much everything else you've recently written.


Luciano de Noeme Imoto:

Recently I also discovered some confidential informations about Mr. Richard (surname withheld) that show me another more pragmatical direct route to my own journey.
Freedom of choice is the key.

this part is just too absurd for words.


Luciano de Noeme Imoto:

Compared to another newbie members here, I´m more than 2 years ahead in this researches and probably you will arrive in the same conclusions of mine after continuous observations and deep reading (also called “slow reading”).

hmm.. that would be better called 'perpetual mis-reading'. for your two years of reading (and 400+ emails/posts of writing), you have apparently understood little about actualism; i can only conclude that the two years spent reading were not two years also spent practising the method advocated.


Luciano de Noeme Imoto:

Are you ingenious or ingenuous? Be careful which you use to investigate AF stuff and the actualism practice/process.

it takes both a degree of ingeniuity (inventiveness, originality) and ingenuousness (lacking in cunning, artlessness) to succeed at the actualism practice. by lacking the latter, you close the door on yourself to the simple wonder of what it is to be here; to the stillness of being alive, here and now, and the intimacy in the world that is always apparent.


Luciano de Noeme Imoto:

Only recently I agreed with a conclusion from a fellow blogger:
That seeking of "perfection" is due to an inability to bear the normal psychological pushes and pulls of life. It is an escape mechanism.


what actualism offers is indeed an escape; it is an escape from malice and sorrow, and from their needless perpetuation, into a perfection that is actual, here and now.


Luciano de Noeme Imoto:

Today I know - by experiential and intellectual ways and some serendipitous discoveries and fortuitous assistances along this researches - that AF website content and its statements is the masterpiece of a single writer.

whatever your 'experiential and intellectual ways' and 'serendipitous discoveries' were, and whatever 'fortuitous assistances' you received along your 'research' were, clearly all did not amount to much, as the one thing you tout those things as having led you to 'knowledge' of - that the af website content and its statements is the masterpiece of a single writer - is just so utterly untrue that i cannot even begin to guess how you came to this absurd conclusion.

so it is clear, i have actually met richard, as well as peter and vineeto - the other two writers of the af trust website (as well as another member of the trust); i have been in the their office, i have used the computers that the website content is currently written on; i have even personally witnessed vineeto writing some of that content. i can verify that, even setting all the content written by the (mostly) anonymous correspondents, the af website content and its statements is most certainly not 'the masterpiece of a single writer'; there are definitely other people involved in all of this.

then again, maybe all those people whom i met (as well as all those people featured in the af trust's dvd's) were actors hired to play 'peter' and 'vineeto' and others whenever they were needed. but if you would go so far as to assume that, then why not assume that the 'richard' whom i met is played by an actor as well? heck, why not assume that the 'tarin' who is writing this post to you right now is also a fiction? maybe - just maybe - the 'luciano' who has been writing on the dho lately is actually another pseudonym for that same single writer, too? and maybe all this could be a dream...

a dream within a dream within a dream within a brain within a vat within a hot dog with mustard and fries.


Luciano de Noeme Imoto:

His book and semi biography (sic) are at most an attractive fantasy fiction, but a fiction at all, similar to L. Ron Hubbard, Carlos Castaneda and Paulo Coelho´s books. A “Third Alternative”, of course, into the dialectical approach.
[Note: In my experience it tends to be the more freaky ones (science fiction writers by example) that are the more innovative, the ones that stand out from the mold, but I am drifting off the point.]

you are likely not just drifting off your point but are losing touch with reality... but that is not all too surprising considering the books you here compare richard's journal to (which books you must have read in order for your claims of knowing about them to be even possibly sensible) are fiction about greater super-realities (where 'super-' here doesn't refer to 'greater' or 'beyond', but to 'upon', as in 'super-imposed'... on reality).


Luciano de Noeme Imoto:

I have spent almost three years to check this … hope your individual journey to be free from Actual Freedom labyrinthic path will end more quickly.
If any of you eventually need more information regard this issue, I could suggest five referential web sources today in order to get an idea where I’m coming from. Read these links, which cover a wide amount of topics and make interconnections which you not have previously considered.

http://harmanjit.blogspot.com/2010/03/epitaph.html

http://www.ugkrishnamurti.net/ (read “Mystique of Enligtenment”)

http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/1095285.Richard_Maynard

http://fishminogue.host-ed.net/investigations/FHA/evidence.html (just change “Jeremy Griffth” by “Richard” and “AF claimant” name and the coherence of that questionings for evidence still worth. By the way, on the Mr. Griffth´s australian website http://www.worldtransformation.com/ you also find a “paradigm shift” achievement too...

your red herrings are red, and i have bigger fish to fry than to address every tenuous link you attempt to draw and specious point you attempt to make... though as you have invited readers here to peruse the 'actual freedom' yahoo mailing list, perhaps just one relevant link from there (containing a quote from one of your sources above) would be appropriate[8].


Luciano de Noeme Imoto:

I personally do not need to know every thing there is to know about Richard (surname withheld) and all that fast on-demand crop of AF claimants, for example, to realize that some of the things I am aware points to another direction – indoctrination - knowing what I do about their today. But again that is my personal view. You can take it or leave it.

duly noted... and rejected as an entirely unsubstantiated claim.


Luciano de Noeme Imoto:

About the “consciousness mutation” and “paradigm-shattering breakthrough” concepts, after you - better late than never - understand the human condition´s neurobiological mess inside your head ruling your thoughts and behaviors, it will be like to hit a Peak in Darien subjective and exceptional consciousness experience.

ah yes, a peak in darien: silent... thoughtless...

(utterly senseless...)


Luciano de Noeme Imoto:

In my case this was not a temporary and ephemeral conquer.

as the 'mutation of consciousness' you claim to be possible to achieve is arrived at via the '[dismantling of] the social identity', then whatever it is you have conquered (however temporary and ephemeral or permanent and enduring), it has nothing to do with an actual freedom from the human condition.


Luciano de Noeme Imoto:

So, to achieve an actual consciousness mutation as one consolidated “virtual freedom”, what you need is to understand our neurobiological bondage, both genetic and cultural inputted conditioning. However, that alleged “physiological mutation” into the human skull is an organic, rare and randomical reboot of the human brain due some unknown blind nature evolutionary mechanism. One which is debatable whether it would work to specie survival, but would most definitely not work to allow a commonsense discussion.

as the very premiss (of an organic, rare and randomical reboot of the human brain due to some unknown blind nature evolutionary mechanism) you put forth here as being 'debatable whether it would allow to specie survival' is entirely a figment of your imagination, i agree that it would most definitely not work to allow a commonsense discussion, since your premiss - being so far from common sense as to be entirely irreconcilable with it - is a fiction of the purest sort. (whether it turns out to be 'an attractive fantasy fiction' or a 'freaky science fiction' will depend on how your dismantled social identity writes it, due to, um... some unknown blind nature evolutionary mechanism.)


Luciano de Noeme Imoto:

Especially when people live in one false democracy ruled by gods and guns, I wonder what your rationale is for doing what you are doing …
To be fully aware of the human condition it is not recreation, it is not religion, it is not about marketing or appealing to what people enjoy. It is for people that walk in the door wanting to learn for real how to handle themselves in this dynamic and objective universe.
Don’t waste your time and investiment searching to be one more self-declared actually free person.

If you choose to ignore this advice, which you probably will, then here is some more.

hmm.. continuing to give unsolicited advice to people whom even you predict are choosing to ignore you? what an unusual way of 'not ... marketing'.


Luciano de Noeme Imoto:

The first thing you have to do is challenge your own beliefs at every level before you can even begin to change or influence the beliefs of others. You’ve got to develop objective criteria by which to judge everything you see within the human condition field. And this was not, is not and will be not easy.
Be your own worst critic.

such wise words ring hollow when their writer only writes them.


Luciano de Noeme Imoto:

Challenge yourself and chosen convictions from every angle. This allowed me to make radical changes and be somewhat “wild”. I have no vested interest in all the trappings of success. I’m just a happy and harmless guy to my peers.

it has recently come to my attention that you have put up another blog (starting from june this year), with much the same material as the website promoting the book you had for sale which contents you plagiarised from the af trust website, poorly translated, and claimed ownership of last year (the same site you took down and book you made unavailable in compliance with richard's cease-and-desist letter last october[9]). it has also come to my attention that three days ago (the day after my first post in this thread, in which i mentioned your old enterprise), this current blog of plagiarised and altered material became 'open to invited readers only' (thus effectively hiding its interpolated contents from the internet at large).

'radical changes', and 'no vested interest', hey?

tarin

[1]
Richard:

Here is but one more example of editorial meddling:
•••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••
• : ‘Apesar de todo este fascinante avanço tecnológico e desenvolvimento organizacional da espécie humana sobre este planeta, a Condição Humana permanece presente e visivel em dois fatores...
VIOLENCIA E AMARGURA
O próximo desafio e o mais crucial ao longo da história da espéce humana é trazer um fim ...’. (page 17; ‘Introdução’ (an RMC FlipBook); www.liberdadeatuante.com/).
: ‘Despite all this fascinating technological and organizational development of the human species on this planet, the human condition is present and visible on two factors ...
VIOLENCE AND BITTERNESS.
The next and most crucial challenge throughout the history of mankind is to bring an end ...’. [End Translation].
[’Introducing Actual Freedom’]: ‘Yet, despite the amazing technological advancements and organizational development of the human species on this planet, the Human Condition is still epitomized by two major factors ...
MALICE AND SORROW.
The next significant and timely challenge facing the human species is to bring an end ...’. actualfreedom.com.au/introduction/humanbeings.htm
•••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••
As it would be so simple to have written ‘malícia e tristeza’ (malice and sorrow) instead of ‘violencia e amargura’ (violence and bitterness) there could be more to this needless editorship than just poor translating skills ...

(http://actualfreedom.com.au/directorscorrespondence/04AMatterofTranslation.html)

[2] http://br.groups.yahoo.com/group/voadores/message/83892


[3]
Luciano de Noeme Imoto:

Probably that ‘lizard-brain’ mutation out of its primeval state is to much randomic to be artificially achieved.
So, the Direct Route is a consciousness mutation instead.
In this context, the *actual* and complete (or perfect if you want) AF still to be claimed by another human being since Richard in 1992.

(http://dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/1076056#_19_message_1119228)

Luciano de Noeme Imoto:

Be safe. Be sincere (i.e. don´t lie to yourself).

(http://dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/1076056#_19_message_1119327)

Luciano de Noeme Imoto:

(...) if Tarin and others (including you, Trent, not exception) still in this frivolous claims, the one-eyed leading the blinds will remains.

(http://dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/1119482#_19_message_1119482)

Luciano de Noeme Imoto:
Your "actual world" seems to be a stillness mind growing up from subjective experiences.

(http://dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/1078599#_19_message_1089002)

[4] florian weps, a long-term dho member and moderator, posted this reply to you on the 29th june, 2010.

[5]
Richard:
As what you are telling the corespondents on that forum is that society generates the psyche – in effect that the social identity = the psyche when it does not – then it is quite possible that it is a poor understanding which gives rise to the poor translations.

(http://actualfreedom.com.au/directorscorrespondence/04AMatterofTranslation.html

[6]
Luciano de Noeme Imoto:

After a randomic brain mutation process that suffered and delivered what he labeled by "Actual Freedom"... (...)

http://dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/1147530#_19_message_1119600

[7]
Luciano de Noeme Imoto:
AF is probably a randomic neurobiological mutation happened inside Richard and another fellow´s head/brain (see UG and Ms. Roberts).

(http://dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/1111974#_19_message_1111974)
and
Luciano de Noeme Imoto:

The labeled "Actual Freedom" seems to be similar to that Natural State achieved by Mr. Uppaluri Gopala Krishnamurti (aka U.G.) and the No-Self Path achieved by Ms. Bernadette Roberts. (...) So, the Third Alternative and its own lingo is a good way to show new things without all that old stuff from U.G. and Bernadette.
Nature is busy creating absolutely unique individuals, remember? Accidents happens ...

(http://dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/1110107#_19_message_1110107)

[8]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/actualfreedom/message/10051

[9] http://actualfreedom.com.au/directorscorrespondence/04AMatterofTranslation.html#29Oct09

RE: How I achieved Actual Freedom from Actual Freedom
denial of the human condition self-deception dudeism
Answer
11/3/10 6:41 AM as a reply to Daniel M. Ingram.
Repeating my - no more - private messages to you:

Dear Daniel Ingram,

No way to Skype real time voice talks: my fluency in English is too much bad. My fault.
We go back some weeks and I've spent quite a bit of energy trying to change your direction, but judging from this private message you're into the AFT stuff.

Can you explain to me why, when there is all the evidence out there to debunk AFT enterprise and its Directors, why you're still engaged in this oversimplification and idealization of freedom from human suffering? One which is debatable whether it would work on the modern stress, but would most definitely not work to allow any brain mutation. Especially when you know Tarin, Kenneth Folk and others I'd like to know what your rationale is for doing what you're doing.


And today:

Hi Daniel,

Being able to proactively put myself out from any self-deceptive mindset should give you the edge. But that blindspots are really difficult to resolve, I know.
As everything else without this accomplishment is somewhat academic.
However, your trust in friendship and secondhand experiments with a fictitious theory (actualism) are enough to you ...
So, I don´t have whatever objection to a happy and harmless life.

Harman spent 6 years, I spent 3 years; maybe you will miss only one year from now to arrive in the same verdict and debunk this and others "Artificial Freedom" too.
I just delivered some clues to facilitate this task: be free from Actual Freedom Trap.

About my bad and wild English posts on DharmaOverground, don´t worry. This is my last post/message here. I promise ;-)
Cordially,

Luciano


http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/1112167