This was posted in another thread that will fade, but I thought it was important enough to put in this thread which will remain at the top, in slightly edited form to be less temporally limited and more generally applicable. It was in response to someone basically mocking descriptions of the phenomenology of some meditation experiences. Here it is:
A brief history lesson, for those who are too young and/or ignorant to remember such recent events.
It was a relatively few years ago that the world of online forums for discussing hardcore meditation practice didn't exist at all.
The best those of us who were into it had to choose from were essentially totally hostile to the notion that anything in the world of enlightenment and even the jhanas could be achieved by mere mortals in this lifetime, with the rare and possible exceptions of some of the most famous of the world's spiritual superstars, none of whom posted there.
Attempts to post on these forums would be met with about 95% flames, about 4% confusion, and about 1% interest, but that 1% interest was a sign, a hint, a fleeting glimpse that there were a few others out there that would appreciate something more. Most of us were very isolated, even when we went on long retreats, even when we showed up for local dharma groups, even when we talked with people who claimed to be meditations teachers, most of whom didn't know nearly as much dharma as we did.
So, based on those few glimmers of hope, Vince Horn and myself founded the Dharma Underground. It rapidly attracted a group of about 40 extremely strong practitioners, the type that you almost never saw posting on any online forum anywhere before that, and in a degree of concentration that I had never seen before and honestly haven't seen since.
Still, in that protected, members-only, hidden space, most didn't use their real names, as despite being extremely strong adults with very deep practices, the public reactions to disclosure of the details of practice was so near-universally toxic, and that conditioning took time to undo.
So far as I know, I was one of the very few that had been "out" on the internet, having had a website since 1999 or so that discussed meditation openly. It was a lonely place to be.
After some period of time, this amazing group got braver, and having found each other and having had time to normalize discussing these things amongst ourselves, and finally the decision was made to create a public forum for some of these discussions for those who would brave public attention. In this way, the Dharma Overground was born.
For a while, there were two forums, the Dharma Underground, for those who were still very closeted and still often under a fake name even there, and the Dharma Overground, for those who were public. Some made the transition, some basically didn't.
Finally, the Dharma Underground traffic basically dried up and nearly everyone transitioned to the Dharma Overground, albeit with many still not using their real names, which should tell you something about what it takes to get out there and discuss these intimate, personal, usually-kept-private, taboo and sensitive topics. In fact, plenty of the best practitioners still use pseudonyms.
Those who have been around a little while longer will remember those who are not here now and not posting anywhere or rarely posting anything about their own deep and impressive practices. The reasons for people basically vanishing back into the closet are many, but part of it is still definitely the reactions to people's strong practices, most of which are bad.
Notice the other private forums that have shown up to meet that need for privacy, such as the Dharma Refugees Forum, which is still private and only accessed by approval by its diligent guardians and contains many ex-DhO people and ex-KFD members.
Notice also the ratio of posts about seriously deep meditation practice to basically everything else. I would guess it is somewhere in the rough ballpark of 1:100 more just based on a cursory inspection of various threads, and even at that around 1% range, this place is routinely recognized among the best of the best in terms of places to discuss real practice. That shows a deep need for the real deal. It is a need that I, its founder, also share.
My skin is tougher than most. I have been willing to be out there about things that most people won't share even with their closest friends and maybe not even with their best meditation teachers. However, most people aren't like that, which is totally understandable, even some extremely strong practitioners. It is still a very hard thing for many to talk about, and I have been noticing that I myself share very few of the details of my own practice here.
Here is a recent example from my practice that hopefully will refresh people's memories of what I, at least, think of as the good stuff, that being the phenomenology of practice and thoughts on how to interpret it, etc.
Here goes:
About 2 weeks ago I was laying in bed trying to sleep between night shift, having not gotten on a proper night schedule yet, as it was too early into my run of shifts.
Suddenly and for no obvious reason, the jhanas started shifting strongly in the standard order, first, second, third, fourth, boundless space, boundless consciousness, nothingness, NPNYNP, out, then the first Pure Land Jhana showed up just dripping with immense gratitude, and the second Pure Land Jhana showed up, filled with that wide and deep peace it does so well, and then there was something new, at least to me.
It felt like there was about a 3x1cm cylinder in the center of my brain that was just beaming out the powerful feeling that I would describe as the very best part of the strongest new teenage crushy-love, but stripped of the weird achy parts and the nervousness and fear. It was without object, meaning there was no person associated with the feeling, it was just the feeling itself, and it was totally awesome.
It lasted about 5 minutes and faded out to something else. The afterglow as very short lived. It hasn't shown up since. I initially thought: wow, was that some weird A&P variant, but I haven't noticed anything else around it to give support to that theory, but you can see why I thought it. It seemed to have been its own thing. If it shows up again, I will let you know more about it. Anyway, one more interesting data point, and the sort of data point that you don't see a lot of out there in the rest of the world.
Back to business: one of the forum posters recently noted that some here might be creating a space that was not as conducive to reports of deep practice. It is an ominous warning and a very good point. I totally agree. It is also a reasonable critique of my moderating style, which has been too lenient of things that would create any space that hardcore practitioners don't feel comfortable sharing in.
Spaces that are safe for disclosures of deep practice are rare and must be preserved. They are the reason for this place, its founding reason. For those who don't feel safe, let me know, and we can re-open the Dharma Underground, which is still actually here, a part of this website and platform, but just hasn't operated in a while only due to the lack of people posting on it. By failing to advertise it, I think that some have been lost to other venues, continuing the splits that began in the First Great Schism of the DhO.
Other options include removing those barriers to more open disclosure (which was the dream upon which the Dharma Overground, as opposed to the Dharma Underground) was founded, meaning removing whomever and whatever those barriers might be. I presume there are lurkers who appreciate that there is good dharma that shows up here at times that would feel they were missing out if the good stuff went back Underground. If any want to chime in one time to give their support for those who feel the real thing should be seen somewhere beyond the closed doors, don't hesitate to share your good opinion.
Daniel
