MCTB2 audiobook?

John Not2, modified 2 Years ago.

MCTB2 audiobook?

Posts: 71 Join Date: 4/25/19 Recent Posts
Does anyone know if there is a plan to produce/publish the audiobook version of MCTB2 by the publisher or 3rd party volunteers (like the MCBT1)?  
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Daniel M. Ingram, modified 2 Years ago.

RE: MCTB2 audiobook?

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I was contacted by a guy who said he would read for about an hour per week, which should take about 33-36 weeks to read the whole thing, but then his life got complex, and I haven't heard from him in a while.

I plan to do one at some point, but it is quite the project to take on.

The average audiobook has about 9,300 words per hour.

It takes about 6 hours for a professional reader and a professional audio editor/producer/engineer to make one hour of finished audiobook.

MCTB2 has about 320,000 words, or about 35 hours long to read it at an average pace.

To finish 35 hours of audio would require professionals about 210 hours, but, as I would be doing it myself, and am not a professional, will presume it will take more than that, say 240-270, that is if I want to do it at something like professional level of quality. Except that I am a touch dyslexic, so, even reading my own stuff, am likely to misspeak and mix things up, which will slow me down a bit. I also am not sure how many hours I could sustain per day without getting tired, hoarse, etc. Thus, I imagine it would be about two months of nearly full-time work. Those two months haven't materlized, but perhaps next Spring? Curiously enough, I intentionally brought a mic with me that would be of pro quality just incase I start to feel inspired to take this on. I would, however, need a room quiet enough and accoustically dead enough to make me not cringe when I listedned to the recording, as I am a bit of an audio snob, actually a lot of an audio snob.

I actually started working on the MCTB2 Summary version, where I try to strip MCTB2 down to about 40,000-50,000 words, partly so that I could then do an audiobook of that, as it would be like a warm up, and probably would only take about 1/8th the time, being 1/8th the length, meaning perhaps a week or so, and then see how that goes and if I am for taking on MCTB2.

The other possibility is that I say basically, "Screw professional quality, this thing needs to be out there," and then just do a rapidly done version of it that would contain some glitches and the like, and it would sound exactly like what it was, and would probably contain some commentary that wasn't even in the original, but at least would exist. That might take a few weeks? Unclear.

Thoughts?

Daniel
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Andromeda, modified 2 Years ago.

RE: MCTB2 audiobook?

Posts: 393 Join Date: 1/15/18 Recent Posts
Tough call. Reading the whole thing straight sounds like a PITA even without dyslexia. 

Just getting it done and not worrying about it sounding "professional" would have the advantage of taking less time and energy, but it might also be more enjoyable for you to do. Less pressure,  less stress about the dyslexia, but also you could ad-lib and probably say some things you want to say that aren't in the book. As they say, no book project is ever truly finished.  That might be fun for people to hear, and more people might listen if it's released sooner rather than later. Hard to say. And there would be nothing stopping you from doing a "professional" quality version later if the urge struck. 

Just my 2 cents.
John Not2, modified 2 Years ago.

RE: MCTB2 audiobook?

Posts: 71 Join Date: 4/25/19 Recent Posts
Andromeda:
Tough call. Reading the whole thing straight sounds like a PITA even without dyslexia. 

Just getting it done and not worrying about it sounding "professional" would have the advantage of taking less time and energy, but it might also be more enjoyable for you to do. Less pressure,  less stress about the dyslexia, but also you could ad-lib and probably say some things you want to say that aren't in the book. As they say, no book project is ever truly finished.  That might be fun for people to hear, and more people might listen if it's released sooner rather than later. Hard to say. And there would be nothing stopping you from doing a "professional" quality version later if the urge struck. 

Just my 2 cents.

I feel the same, and I have an idea of a practical interim solution for getting a less-than-perfect version of audiobook out before a "perfect solution" is decided upon and the actual perfect audiobook is materialized, but I am unable to reach Daniel privately to have his feedbacks on the sample audio and the interim solution idea I am proposing.
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Daniel M. Ingram, modified 2 Years ago.

RE: MCTB2 audiobook?

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I am not sure what "unable to reach me privately" means, as there is messaging on this forum and my email is public knowledge on my website.

Ok, more votes for just getting something ok done: will use those to help balance more audio prefectionistic tendencies and see what I can do. If I did 30 minutes a day, could knock out an unedited version in two months, perhaps.
John Not2, modified 2 Years ago.

RE: MCTB2 audiobook?

Posts: 71 Join Date: 4/25/19 Recent Posts
Daniel M. Ingram:
I am not sure what "unable to reach me privately" means, as there is messaging on this forum and my email is public knowledge on my website.

Ok, more votes for just getting something ok done: will use those to help balance more audio prefectionistic tendencies and see what I can do. If I did 30 minutes a day, could knock out an unedited version in two months, perhaps.
Thanks again Daniel, I a new to the site, for unknown reason the message function doesn't work for me, as I have posted above, asking for advice on how to message you, and I also can't find your email address.  
John Not2, modified 2 Years ago.

RE: MCTB2 audiobook?

Posts: 71 Join Date: 4/25/19 Recent Posts
Hi Daniel,

Since I am unable to send you the sample audio file privately for your review and feedback, I am posting the link to the sample audio file publicly here.  Everyone can access the sample file and all feedbacks are welcome and appreciated.  I have the entire audiobook done already and can make it available here if you think it is a valid interim option before your better versions are made.  I am also interested in opinions and feedback from the forum users, as we are now in a fast-changing technology age, the traditional approach to creating audiobooks may soon become obsolete.

Thanks a lot!

John

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Inri-JtW9P7Z-IwldNpNvFtXd5Rx5dRc
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Daniel M. Ingram, modified 2 Years ago.

RE: MCTB2 audiobook?

Posts: 3214 Join Date: 4/20/09 Recent Posts
For the Messaging Portlet, simply be patient and follow instructions. If it is not working when you do that, let us know.

As to my email, my website is at www.integrateddaniel.info, and there you will find my contact information. It is also on the DhO wiki. When I type "Daniel Ingram contact information" into Google, my website's contact page with my email is what shows up.

As to a text to speech version, I do understand the appeal, as it is quick and cheap. That's how I managed to get through TMI the first time when I was given the .pdf by Culadasa to write a blurb about, as I was commuting a lot, as I was working a ton, and by text to speech the commute time was put to good use. Still, the real audio book is so much easier to listen to. Would a text-to-speech version be better than nothing? Perhaps, but the mispronunciations and the errors are real and annoying, at least to me. Perhaps those annoyances will inspire me to create the real thing sooner.

Did you edit the text in a few places to turn "I" into "one"? If so, why?

Thanks at least for being concerned that such a thing needed to exist and helping to make it exist.
John Not2, modified 2 Years ago.

RE: MCTB2 audiobook?

Posts: 71 Join Date: 4/25/19 Recent Posts
Thanks Daniel.  I did follow the message instruction and am unable to get it to work.  I couldn't find your email on this site either and didn't think of using google site search, thanks for the email info.

The audio is not produced using the conventional text to speech technology, and I didn't edit the source text, it was from the first day Amazon Kindle release last year, so may be it was outdated already.  Thanks so much for your feedback.  I made theaudibook for my own listening only and it will stay that way.
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Siavash Mahmoudpour, modified 2 Years ago.

RE: MCTB2 audiobook?

Posts: 1448 Join Date: 5/5/19 Recent Posts
Daniel M. Ingram:
For the Messaging Portlet, simply be patient and follow instructions. If it is not working when you do that, let us know.

As to my email, my website is at www.integrateddaniel.info, and there you will find my contact information. It is also on the DhO wiki. When I type "Daniel Ingram contact information" into Google, my website's contact page with my email is what shows up.

As to a text to speech version, I do understand the appeal, as it is quick and cheap. That's how I managed to get through TMI the first time when I was given the .pdf by Culadasa to write a blurb about, as I was commuting a lot, as I was working a ton, and by text to speech the commute time was put to good use. Still, the real audio book is so much easier to listen to. Would a text-to-speech version be better than nothing? Perhaps, but the mispronunciations and the errors are real and annoying, at least to me. Perhaps those annoyances will inspire me to create the real thing sooner.

Did you edit the text in a few places to turn "I" into "one"? If so, why?

Thanks at least for being concerned that such a thing needed to exist and helping to make it exist.

My experience from listening to lots of poetry by the poets themselves, and also listening to it read by other people (professionals and poets), tells me that if you read your book yourself, it will convey one set of messages and meanings, and if someone else reads it, it will convey some other set of messages and meanings, since we get a big part of meanings and perceptions by the voice itself and its tone and musicality. I would prefer to not have an audio version, unless it's done by the write/poet. (I think it's like translations, meaning that if someone else reads your book, and someone listens to it, it's as if the person listens to a translation of your book, with all its problems)
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Daniel M. Ingram, modified 2 Years ago.

RE: MCTB2 audiobook?

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No real updates of note beyond the fact that there are about 14 chapters read and processed read by the volunteer, not sure how long the rest will take.
Alastair John Jack, modified 1 Year ago.

RE: MCTB2 audiobook?

Posts: 4 Join Date: 12/12/19 Recent Posts
Thanks for the response! Looking forward to it, since it's easier for me to get through audiobooks. Though it's always wonderful to hear author's read their own books, even if it's technically not as proffesional as a voice actor or whatever, but it's understandable if you don't have time for it. 
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 1 Year ago.

RE: MCTB2 audiobook?

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I would much prefer if Ken McLeod let someone else read his book emoticon seriously his voice makes me nauseous emoticon

I really appreciate and am grateful to Ingram's work but in truth his way of speaking is similar to the mind state being stuck in Cause & Effect jerkiness coupled with the speed and precission of A&P emoticon Strange coctail emoticon 

I personally think its best to give this tastk to those who have "the voice" as Shinzen sais (nothing to do with audio books tho).
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Daniel M. Ingram, modified 1 Year ago.

RE: MCTB2 audiobook?

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Well, your point about my voice and its quirks is well-taken, so sorry to disappoint you: It looks like I will be attempting an audiobook version of MCTB2 of here. I have spent many hours setting up and performance testing a heavily padded, well isolated vocal room, selecting a microphone and preamp (looks like it will be the AKG C414 XLS through the Apogee One into Twisted Wave on my phone, actually, as it has no fan noise, unlike my Macs, and my iPad will serve as the text source). Audible, where some version will almost certainly end up, has a lot of strict technical requirements, so will try to meet all of those. Of course, as always, there will be a free version as well. ;)

And, as the Coronapocalypse has me here at home for the foreseeable future, in addition to lots of other projects, I will be starting to tackle this one.

Still, I will take into account the quirks of my voice and try to reduce them to the degree that is possible without sounding too weird, e.g. Jack Kornfield's "loving-kindness" voice.

I will let you all know how this goes.

Best wishes,

Daniel
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 1 Year ago.

RE: MCTB2 audiobook?

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We love you emoticon and thank you! 
Alastair John Jack, modified 1 Year ago.

RE: MCTB2 audiobook?

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Wow, that's really exciting to hear!
Mantri Sanyasi Raj, modified 1 Year ago.

RE: MCTB2 audiobook?

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Hello Daniel, Just wondering if the MCTB2 Audio book is complete or near complete. Would love to listen to it. Any info. on this is much appreciated!
Jason Massie, modified 2 Years ago.

RE: MCTB2 audiobook?

Posts: 124 Join Date: 10/18/16 Recent Posts
Having the original audio book was really helpful. I got used to the quirks in it. 
Alastair John Jack, modified 2 Years ago.

RE: MCTB2 audiobook?

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Sorry for the bump, just curious if there was any updates on an audiobook? Thanks!
John Not2, modified 2 Years ago.

RE: MCTB2 audiobook?

Posts: 71 Join Date: 4/25/19 Recent Posts
Thanks a lot for the update, Daniel.  I am trying to PM you but the system keeps returning "Recipients not selected", how do I PM you?  
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tom moylan, modified 2 Years ago.

RE: MCTB2 audiobook?

Posts: 896 Join Date: 3/7/11 Recent Posts
howdy,
i would suggest to crowdsource it.

assign chapters with the veto power lying with Daniel.

the cool people reading it would potentially add to the charachter of the finished product while the veto power would eliminate tongue thrusting, syllabic slurring, mike popping etc.  reading samples could streamline the selection process to avoid that someone invests the time for a large chunk.

i'd do a chapter.
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tom moylan, modified 2 Years ago.

RE: MCTB2 audiobook?

Posts: 896 Join Date: 3/7/11 Recent Posts
another possible model would be for Daniel to put the proposal to people he respects (whether vocally, developmentally or otherwise) to read a chapter.

this would be a sneaky way to get some "Star Factor" and co-advertisement ;-)
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Daniel M. Ingram, modified 2 Years ago.

RE: MCTB2 audiobook?

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The question then becomes how to get something like consistency of audio across readers, meaning that people would have a good enough mic with a good enough A/D converter with a good enough room and a good enough pop filter to make it sound something like ok and reasonably consistent. As a previous pro audio engineer with good tech (Logic Pro X, iZotope RX7), I can compensate for some defects, noises, pops, echos, plosives, tonal differences, dynamic differences, etc., but not all.

Perhaps many people don't care about sound quality to that degree, but unfortunately I do. It is a true curse in some ways.
John Not2, modified 2 Years ago.

RE: MCTB2 audiobook?

Posts: 71 Join Date: 4/25/19 Recent Posts
Daniel M. Ingram:
The question then becomes how to get something like consistency of audio across readers, meaning that people would have a good enough mic with a good enough A/D converter with a good enough room and a good enough pop filter to make it sound something like ok and reasonably consistent. As a previous pro audio engineer with good tech (Logic Pro X, iZotope RX7), I can compensate for some defects, noises, pops, echos, plosives, tonal differences, dynamic differences, etc., but not all.

Perhaps many people don't care about sound quality to that degree, but unfortunately I do. It is a true curse in some ways.
I have an audio sample of MCBT2 reading that I would like your feedback, and I have a different idea that may actually work and would like to run the idea by you, but I a not able to PM you because the system is not allowing it, or because I didn't know the proper PM procedure, please advice.  Thanks so much.
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Daniel M. Ingram, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: MCTB2 audiobook?

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My friend Josh generously offered to give significant financial support to the creation of the audiobook of MCTB2, such that it is now easily possible to hire pro audiobook editors to make it great, as well as professional voice talent if required.

I am fully set up to record at a pro level (great audiobooth, mic, etc.), and have a preference for this to be in my own voice, and have started recording the first few bits, and they sound fine, but I am struggling to find the time, as the EPRC and EB projects (https://theeprc.org and https://ebenefactors) are taking off, which are extremely time-consuming but very important to me also, and it is very time-consuming to read a 320,000 word book slowly, clearly, and correct all errors so it sounds pro.

Thus, I am wondering what you all would think of a hybrid solution, where I read what I feel are the core bits that my voice would lend punch to, and then find a talented pro voice actor for the rest. Sometimes I also think about hiring a number of diverse pro voice actors with diverse voices to mix it up a bit.

Thoughts?

Suggestions for favorite audiobook readers?

Thanks!

Daniel
Derek2, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: MCTB2 audiobook?

Posts: 197 Join Date: 9/21/16 Recent Posts
Daniel M. Ingram:
I am wondering what you all would think of a hybrid solution, where I read what I feel are the core bits that my voice would lend punch to, and then find a talented pro voice actor for the rest.


Daniel,

A compromise will inevitably come across sounding like a compromise.

Just record the bits you think are important, and that automatically becomes your "MCTB2 Lite" text.
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Siavash ', modified 2 Months ago.

RE: MCTB2 audiobook?

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 My vote is for your own voice.
I see it as black and white. If it's not your own voice, then I'd prefer to let it be for the reader to have their own voice in their head. If someone else reads it, to me it's like a translation. It becomes a different thing (Not saying it's good or bad, but different.).
 
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: MCTB2 audiobook?

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I like the hybrid idea of various voices and also yours for certain parts. It's a long book and having new voices come up can even make it easier to remember certain parts better. As if each chapter had another color to it.

All the best with this project! 
Danny S, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: MCTB2 audiobook?

Posts: 48 Join Date: 6/18/21 Recent Posts
I like the hybrid approach.

In my experience listening to audiobooks, most authors are, without some additional training or experience, not the best narrators of their own books. Interestingly, this seems to be true regardless of whether the author-narrator is a good public speaker. For example, Brene Brown is phenomenal when speaking to a live audience, but the narrations of her books are more lacking in dynamism and authenticity. The brain just seems to use different circuitry when narrating vs. speaking freely. I would worry that anyone who appreciates listening to Daniel talk on podcasts might be disappointed.

Daniel, you mention in a footnote that you enjoyed listening to Mark Manson's The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck as an audiobook, which was narrated by a professional. For comparison, try listening to Models, which Mark Manson narrates himself (or just look at the reviews of the narration performance).

However, I agree there are several parts of MCTB2 where the specific tone would be important, and where it feels like you are writing to make it read as though you were speaking in person. It would be great to hear your own voice for the parts most important to you! Another benefit of having the bulk of it read professionally is that it gives you time to do 2 or 3 takes reading the core parts and really make them live up to your high standards. 

In terms of audiobook readers, I thought Sean Runnette did a good job changing tone and tempo to emphasize important technical details when narrating TMI, though his slow, calming voice might be a large contrast with your own.
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finding-oneself, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: MCTB2 audiobook?

Posts: 186 Join Date: 1/7/14 Recent Posts
I think just for practical purposes this is a good idea. I would be happy with a hybrid approach and it would help me be able to listen to it, because it is long.

I also agree with what Siavash said. It's a different thing, when read in other peoples voices. Based on this and looking at the contents summary, I really want to hear it all in your voice. I thought I agreed with the "just the core parts", but when I opened the summary that's almost the entire book to me.

​​​​​​​If had to pick one it would be 100% in your voice.

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