Hi. I practice Actualism but have had some experience with meditation and self inquiry although not within an tradition. I really used to love lao tzu his stuff used to hit me like a truck.

Obligatory history: January 18 in 2010 I had an experience whereby 'I' dissolved and I became everything (although not as I). This experience was characterised by bliss, beauty, centerlessness, lack of understanding the difference in reality of dreaming/awakefulness and felt like i had awoken from a dream but not in the normal sense. I described it as 'one consciousness' without hearing this phrase previously. It lasted 5 days but tapered off the whole time. For example day 1 for the first 30 mins I didn't even know it had happened, following this realisation I melted back into oneness but by the 5th day I had to 'place' or 'ground' myself in oneness and the experience had devolved some what. It continued to taper for some months following but the first 5 days was the most intense. This experience made me understand the extent to which perception can be changed as previous to this point I thought it was all some mystical far off extravaganza that probably would never occur in my time.

Anyways my query relates to this: I get these creeping rushes of blissful energy running up my spine through and over the top of my crown down to my third eye kind of area. This happens less frequently than it did post the experience described above (what was that anyways?), but probably every week or twice a week at the moment. It buzzes the whole time. Accompanying these rushes are intense emotions unattached to an object or past/future event. For example I might start crying and feel overwhelmed with beauty although there is no object of the beauty. 'I' often step in to try and claim the experience whereby it slowly dissipates. The whole thing usually only lasts a few minutes maybe 2-3.

Can someone diagnose what these curious little events are? I have limited knowledge and skill nor the time currently to investigate such things. Knowing there are a lot of peeps here with this specific knowledge, I am asking for help.

Thanks.

What preceded this 'oneness' experience? (i.e. what was your practice back then, what was a typical meditation sit in the days and weeks preceding this 'oneness' experience?)



(1) Do these periods of blissful energy alternate with more unpleasant periods where you are prone to irritability? If the answer is yes, are these unpleasant periods followed by periods of calm and equanimity?

If yes, how fast do these stages alternate among themselves?

(2) What is a typical meditation session for you nowadays?

(3) What is your goal with meditation/spirituality/whatever? What do you want to get out of it?

My practice consisted of attempting to deconstruct my beliefs surrounding things that lead to unpleasant feelings. It was merely an ongoing practice I would try and do at all moments of the day. I say attempting to because it was more like noticing the bad feelings and dissociating from them, but some genuine belief deconstruction too (this is with hindsight). I started this maybe 4 months prior to this point.

There was a lot of insight leading up to the experience in the days and weeks before although I wasn't aware of what insight was prior to coming here.

Another thing I was playing with was trying to put my sense of self into inanimate objects to try and observe a lack of separation between me and the object. The goal was to try and take the point of view of the object and look back on me (more like feel/intuit back on me from the 'outside'). I was doing this with a lamp when I 'popped' and melted into the 'oneness'. I was also quite hungover as I was in a period of compulsively drinking and smoking most weekends so the relief was palpable.

I wasn't doing any regular meditation although I had sat for 20 mins a day for a period of a year or so a number of years earlier with some curiously confusing detached and energetic experiences.

*Oh also I had a rather large experience of what I would call Acceptance about 10 months prior to the described experience. It occurred after 4 very dark days of self-loathing/pity/pointlessness/purposelessness. I am not sure if this is relevant but thought I would add it.


(1) Not immediately, but perhaps 1-2 days after I begin to get a bit more 'stuck'. I definitely alternate between periods of calm and equanimity (equanimity is a bang on description, what a lovely word) and periods of confusion, getting 'stuck' in my own problems/dramas/dirt. Is this what is called cycling? It seems that the periods of getting 'stuck' are where my intent to permanently absolve myself of these periods is built.

As I hadn't been aware that these periods were occurring until 2-3 months ago, it is difficult for me to note their frequency. However, they most definitely have been occurring for some time. I would say that they peak/trough every two weeks or so although they go back to baseline faster than in the past. Also the intensity of the peaks isn't as strong as in the past although the baseline seems to have moved higher (that is I am more calm at baseline and thus not seeking compulsive relief in alcohol/smoking/partying).

(2) I haven't been sitting regularly for a long time as I have found it interferes with my Actualism practice. As when I go through periods of sitting it is like it changes the frequency of my normal/actualism focussed experience and when those two frequencies combine they form a jumbled combination of the two that is sometimes a great relief and sometimes very confusing.

(3) Relief from my suffering, relief from others suffering, to not cause suffering to other human beings, happiness.

I would say my goal is extirpation of ego and Self. However, feeling out my intention it is relief from suffering that is the driver with harmlessness getting a lesser look in than happiness...also to experience the magic of this physical universe which I have had small glimpses of (holy cow).


Thank you Bruno for your time and assistance much appreciated.

With the added information it is now easy to assess.


You are essentially describing various insight stages leading to stream-entry. The 4 very dark days were dark night, the 10 months after that were equanimity, and stream-entry happened when you 'popped.' That the sense of union fades away is to be expected, it is just a feeling, and as fickle as any other. It might help to recall the actualist point of view on the matter: there is nothing to unite unless there is something separated; in the end, the feeling of "union" thrives on, and sustains and preserves separation.


So you are a stream-enterer. You might profit in reading the book "Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha," by Daniel Ingram, where the cycles that you are going through are carefully and detailedly explained, as well as the path leading to the resolution of the problem as far what is here called "4th path" (link to free e-book).



You seem to be doing fine. Any specific question?

The way I'm doing this is investigating those sensations of somatic discomfort in the body, letting them dissolve, shift, change, etc, so that the whole perceptive experience becomes clearer and clearer, and the magic apparent

Ah cool. Would it be beneficial as an actualist to understand these stages better intellectually (quick scan of the insight stages on the recommended book let me know I understand them from experience) and thus assist in pointing them out faster? Or in understanding the nanas and jhanas? I haven't read about them at all yet.


Thanks for the link. I'll have to make time to read this book at length as I see it referenced around here a lot. Having a quick half hour search through, stream entry seems to fit my experience...the descriptions leave me going ah-ha! It is comforting to read these experiences that correlate so well with my own experience without the mystical ha-hoo. How refreshingly exciting.



No specific question regarding Actualism at this moment. I always seem to have things that are being investigated. I have access to most of the intellectual answers to my questions, experientially getting those answers so change occurs is a whole different kettle of fish though. I have recently become aware of intuition quite acutely with some interesting experiences. I can't recall the last time I was bored either as there is always something of interest going on now.

Another point of investigation has been around the senses. I had some insight into sensing occurring at the senses where in I had a very close to PCE (EE I guess)...sense of boundlessness at the fringes, awesome vision, sense of amazement or magic, self kind of chilling in the back seat. Actually a difficult point for me since that point has been in understanding the implications of sense occurring at the senses. The focus of which has been in searching for that boundlessness again, I am guessing that I am chasing further insight into this point rather than trying to be happy and harmless like a good little actualist.

On a side note today the energy phenomenon has happened maybe 20 times including a very intense quite uncomfortable experience while I was having a nap (hasn't happened with that intensity for a long time). It seems giving these these issues some attention has stirred them up! Ha.

I have been following your experiences on the forum and will continue to do so. Thanks for providing me with this info much appreciated.

Just a PS:



It might be useful to interpret what was happening here as an indication of the arbitrary and illusory nature of the "feeling of point of view", rather than an indicator of lack of separation between you and the object, which I'm guessing is much more clear to you when in PCE/EE mode, when the sense of union isn't really there.



Most people I know of having gotten AF had at least some insight attainments. Although I don't have enough data to recommend going one way or the other. You already clearly have a grasping of how it works, so you could just do that for as long as it is working, and then inquire further here in the forum if you get stuck.


Whatever works. In general you can bear in mind that if you can feel it out, or intuit its existence, it's not apperception. Beware of falling into a 'good actualist' trip, just stick to whatever works and enjoy yourself



The few weeks and months after stream-entry are very powerful energy-wise. This is to be expected and will eventually settle down. One thing I have noticed in myself is that in those moments when one is between sleep and wakeful consciousness, energy phenomena will seem to be much stronger than they actually are when one is fully awake. In these nebulous states of mind, one might have the sensation that one is on the verge of something enormous, only to have it fade away upon fully waking up.

My conjecture is that in the absence of sensory input, what would otherwise seem like a weak and vague stirring of the feeling-body now takes on a full-fledged hallucinatory dimension. After concluding this was the case, I found it interesting to let the energy phenomena go all the way, which in the dream-like transitory state of near-sleep 'felt dangerous', but actually didn't turn out to be at all so. If you really let it go, you will probably enter a dream where your head explodes, or where you are getting enlightened and can suddenly fly, or where you are being bathed by the white light of god, or whatever weird delusion strikes your dreaming fancy at the time. It can be fun, but is of little consequence

These strong dreams can feel very vivid, and are usually indications of the A&P stage.



My pleasure

No disagreement with Bruno's lucid evaluation -- just an additional thought in case you want another avenue to explore.

Your statement:



The up-the-spine-to-the-crown-and-down-to-the-brow-chakra experience is a textbook version of the energy effects of deep yoga practice, aka shakti, aka kundalini, aka prana. If you want to explore the energy practices more, you might look at some of Richard Freeman's works, among others.

Yes, much more clear in EE mode, definitely no feeling of union there. Nice one.




I am prone to investigate better ways of doing things to reach goals faster, hence my interest in these things. Further, my insights more pop up out of nowhere rather than are cultivated, is this how it works usually or is this due to having no formal practice? For example I might be pottering about and notice something interesting then fall into a very clear line of concentration that allows for clear discernment of cause and effect relating to some phenomena. Does this 'clear line of concentration' type thing have some name?

I am in the process of trying to piece together a bunch of things that I know but don't have any intellectual understanding of and thus am unable to be cognisant of them until I read something and go, 'ohh thats what that experience is'. Having this understanding I might be better able to tap that knowledge to get where I want to go + it is fun to learn these things. I will make time to read the recommended book.



Yeah, that makes sense. They generally fade as soon as I wake up. They do 'feel dangerous' and the head explodes thing is pretty close to my experience.

I have a few more questions if you would be so kind?

How did you get from first to second path (I think I read that you were at this point)? Did you do the same things as before? Do most people just do the same things as before?

I was reading a thread on no-dog tonight and found out I have access to the '3 speeds' as described by Jack Kornfield here http://www.shambhalasun.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1594&Itemid=243 and listening to a 'Hurricane Ranch Dialogue' someone mentioned (pretty sure it was Kenneth Folk) that these modes can be used to progress. Does this apply to stream-enterers? I used to sit in 1st while driving and in painful repetitive physical exercise pre-stream-entry (I thought of it as meditating while awake), not sure how I learned 2nd and 3rd and wasn't cognisant of 3rd until tonight.

What was your experience regarding the increase in perception/clarity/concentration/general mental acrobatics from 1st to 2nd path?

It is Easter here and public holidays so I am having some time off studying and am using it to investigate some of these things, sure is fun =]

Hi Sean!

I will almost certainly do some reading on this stuff at some point, thanks for the author's name. I have a query if you wouldn't mind?

I can force/activate a different type of energy up from the base of my spine. It doesn't take much concentration and I have been able to do this for many years but am not sure how I found out how to do it. While doing this I feel rapture in a bodily sense. This forcing can only be sustained for a short period and it runs out of gas for a lack of a better word although the longer I sustain it the more of the body it encompasses and the more rapture increases but doesn't seem to move in the same way as the other type of energy through the crown/brow.

It used to make my eyes roll back in my head and my eyelids shake but does not do this anymore, although there is still some uncontrolled arching/straightening/cracking of the back and minor body shaking.

Why is this energy of a different quality to the unforced energy that creeps up the spine/crown/down brow during the previously described events? Is it of the same 'type' but somehow different?
Why doesn't this 'type' of energy move without me activating it?

Further it feels more dense, doesn't flow as easily and is more 'powerful' than the other type if this is relevant.

Thanks for your time.

I don't know.



For me getting second path was very different from attaining first. While for first path I aimed at powering up my investigative momentum, becoming equanimous because the mind was so powerful that I could 'take it all in', nailing second path was a matter of grounding, and I reached 2nd path equanimity when the super-intense energetic phenomena settled down. I did specific grounding exercises during those days, most especially the three amigos.

Then nailing "third" (or whichever major shift I got next) was a matter of balancing relaxation and investigation, and getting "third again" (whatever major shift I got after "third") happened when I stopped being so obsessive about investigating a particular blockage.

Now nailing fourth (or "third third") seems to be a matter of letting go of the urge to control.



(1) I can't help you with the no-dog because I have only practiced it briefly, and never liked the dissociated feel of it. But remember, whatever works. Christian Ballhaus, another naturally talented fella who sometimes posts here, gained a lot non-dual teachings, as well as from the instruction "turn the light of awareness back on itself" mentioned in that hurricane ranch discussion (which led him to 4th path).

(2) More clarity and less suffering as always when getting paths, and from first to second path in particular the ability to live through powerful energetic phenomena, as well as strong emotions, fear, anger, sadness, etc, without being blown away. "third" and "second third" brought a tendency and ability to relax more.

can you describe this more? is it essentially what Matt was saying, to take the point of view of any sensation and try to look back on 'me'?

I never got the mentioned technique to do anything for me, but Christian Ballhaus apparently has. Here is the link.

Hey BCDEFG(lol) I think they're slightly different. For example you know how when you get an awareness that you're the little man in the head? Well you know how that little man can observe a bunch of stuff but only from within a box? In no-dog 1st speed you are the watching of the box (with pointed focus on the watching perspective rather than on physical time and space) from a distance and are unaffected by anything happening in said box - in fact the box is quite mundane as it is not the point of focus. The different speeds are like different points of viewing the box but the same 'you are the watching of the box' theme. It has a dissociative feel as Bruno mentioned which is why one might have an aversion to it for sure - its not as much fun in no-dog as you have no stake in the fun to begin with! EE is about a zillion times (slight over exaggeration) better than no-dog for sure!

Also reading Daniel Ingram's article on 'No Dog, Some Dog and the Simplest Thing' [1] he says, "I realized something very important: Some Dog and No Dog are both of the same nature, both are conditioned, both are empty, both are just variations on the basic theme of perception, or manifestation, or luminosity, or suchness, or whatever you wish to call it.." which is an absolutely bang on point insight and reminded me of something half forgotten! (they are both conditioned states)

ANYWAY, the thing I was doing has a slightly different perspective to it from my point of view.
Similarities are
-the inclination of the mind is along the same lines as the no-dog inclination
-both may lead to recognition of the same thing eventually
Differences are
-point of focus for what I was doing is 'out there' in physical space. goal was to bridge the 'out there' so it became no longer 'out there' (I guess I was trying to trick the mind into some form of non-dual perspective). point of focus for no-dog is not 'out there' in physical space, it is some point absent from physical space (not here or now). It watches the here and now from that absent-from-physical-space-and-time perspective

*Also of note regarding no-dog. Last night I meditated (for the first time in a long time) with a goal: to maintain no-dog regardless of what happens. I noticed for the first time the movement of cycles of meditation (eg some of them were narrowing of focus, widening of attention, bliss, dissolution of bliss state, uncomfortableness, not necessarily in that order (hard to remember)). Anyways the whole time maintaining no-dog so as to have no stake in what was happening. This lead quickly to massive pressure at the top of the spine, base of the skull, through the throat, creeping skull, straining back, opening of mouth, flickering eyelids (whole bunch of shit)...this happened through 5 or 6 different periods all the while trying to maintain no-dog...i was exhausted afterwards...this pressure was not comfortable and didn't involve any pleasant energy...i am guessing this is some kundalini phenomenon, not sure if I want to pursue this experience too much. Kind of wonder if there is a release at the end if I get good at it though.



[1]http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/dharma-wiki/-/wiki/Main/No%20Dog,%20Some%20Dog%20and%20the%20Simplest%20Thing/pop_up;jsessionid=08E27F6611E255BF76E33110BBA6F4AB?p_r_p_185834411_title=No%20Dog,%20Some%20Dog%20and%20the%20Simplest%20Thing