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Random Bodily Jolts...
Answer
12/21/19 3:29 PM
Meditation is very flat and featureless (I think in Daniel parlance this is called Equanimity, but I don't know) but during meditation my extremities suddenly jolt. Sometimes they can jolt the full range of their capacity, like my arm will stretch right out very quickly. I'm thankful that this only occurs during meditation otherwise I could possibly knock someone out (I'm 6 foot 2 and heavy built). Sometimes, my chest will thrust outwards with a sharp intake of breath. Does anyone have any thoughts on these odd bodily movements?

PS: When you blow your nose, somewhere deep in the cosmos a supernova explodes.

PS: When you're falling through the dukkha nanas, make sure to take out those pretty, shiny images you've constructed about the spiritual path. (I'm at the point of taking a saw to my Buddha statue).

RE: Random Bodily Jolts...
Answer
12/21/19 4:22 PM as a reply to Bardo.
I've had one lately that is a full body jolt. Seems to come from the spine somewhere but it's so fast it's hard to tell. I really think it has to do with cycling through the fear stage. Also in the three c's I would get the entire left arm jolt which seemed to come from the spine as well but I would also have a bunch of leg shaking to in that stage. The arm jolt happened at work one day and scared the crap out of me. Never happend outside of practice again. I think Daniel talks about them in the chapter of the three c's. There's a bunch of writing on it. Some call them kriyas. You can check out this page that talks about them.
https://kundalinisymptoms.com/info/kriyas/

These kriyas can happen in a few different stages. Daniel recommends a book by Jack Kornfield that has some interesting stuff in it about these energy movements.

RE: Random Bodily Jolts...
Answer
12/21/19 4:36 PM as a reply to Bardo.
Bardo Cruiser:
Meditation is very flat and featureless (I think in Daniel parlance this is called Equanimity, but I don't know) but during meditation my extremities suddenly jolt. Sometimes they can jolt the full range of their capacity, like my arm will stretch right out very quickly. I'm thankful that this only occurs during meditation otherwise I could possibly knock someone out (I'm 6 foot 2 and heavy built). Sometimes, my chest will thrust outwards with a sharp intake of breath. Does anyone have any thoughts on these odd bodily movements?

PS: When you blow your nose, somewhere deep in the cosmos a supernova explodes.

PS: When you're falling through the dukkha nanas, make sure to take out those pretty, shiny images you've constructed about the spiritual path. (I'm at the point of taking a saw to my Buddha statue).

I always have these jolts (in the last two years). It used to be on the tale bone and base of spine mostly for sometime, it would feel that suddenly some hammer hit my tale bone, and my body would jump. Recently it's mostly on elbows and knees, and if I practice more and get more concentrated, it can happen on the base of spine too. In my case, I am guessing that it's related to root chakra. Whenever those "energetic" sensations at the base of spine start to arise, then all kinds of strange sensations start to occur, which one of them is these jolts.

Sudden deep in-breaths is another one by the way.

About a year or so ago, they started to become much more intense, and for several days I did a practice before sleep, that seemed to help relax them. I would lie down in corpse mode, and often without a pilow under my head, and relax all parts of body, and then focus on something that generates good concentration. For me that object was color statics in the murk with eyes closed, and I would let the body to jump and do all kinds of crazy things. Mostly my arms would jump, sometimes my whole body would jump, and there was times that  the energy would release by making strange sounds, at the time of jumping of whole body. After about 30 minutes, I would get tired and relaxed and get a deep sleep, and the next day, jolts would happen less.

RE: Random Bodily Jolts...
Answer
12/21/19 4:55 PM as a reply to Bardo.
Yup. I have such kriyas too now and then. It is stage related and will pass. 

RE: Random Bodily Jolts...
Answer
12/22/19 3:36 AM as a reply to Dustin.
Dustin:
I've had one lately that is a full body jolt. Seems to come from the spine somewhere but it's so fast it's hard to tell. I really think it has to do with cycling through the fear stage. Also in the three c's I would get the entire left arm jolt which seemed to come from the spine as well but I would also have a bunch of leg shaking to in that stage. The arm jolt happened at work one day and scared the crap out of me. Never happend outside of practice again. I think Daniel talks about them in the chapter of the three c's. There's a bunch of writing on it. Some call them kriyas. You can check out this page that talks about them.
https://kundalinisymptoms.com/info/kriyas/

These kriyas can happen in a few different stages. Daniel recommends a book by Jack Kornfield that has some interesting stuff in it about these energy movements.

Thanks. I'll look into the Jack Kornfield book. The link was interesting to. I've had kundalini symptoms every day for about 18 months so it seems related to this in some way. 

RE: Random Bodily Jolts...
Answer
12/22/19 3:44 AM as a reply to Siavash.
I've been doing guided body scans at night for 15 minutes but meditation seems to be where it all occurs. 

Corpse mode - I find this death related term quite amusing given the context of awakening. I recall of phrase in the Zen tradition:

The secret of life is to die before you die.

If only it could be as simple as shouting, "Initiate corpse mode! - permanently!"

RE: Random Bodily Jolts...
Answer
12/22/19 6:19 AM as a reply to Bardo.
Bardo Cruiser:
I've been doing guided body scans at night for 15 minutes but meditation seems to be where it all occurs. 

Corpse mode - I find this death related term quite amusing given the context of awakening. I recall of phrase in the Zen tradition:

The secret of life is to die before you die.

If only it could be as simple as shouting, "Initiate corpse mode! - permanently!"

It seems that techniques like body scan actually activate this energy and cause these kinds of movements to happen more. Although for me it doesn't matter so much which technique I use, it just depends on the fact of concentrating, but given that, there is a difference among the effects that each technique has. More active techniques like fast fire noting, body scan, Shinzen's See Hear Feel or Note Everything cause more of it. Also for me, when focusing on relaxation, it happens more. I guess it's because the relaxation generates more piti.

Hmm. In Islamic tradition and in Sufi tradition, this death thing is a major theme. There is a Hadith from Muhammad, that says exactly that: Die before you die. (موتو قبل ان تموتو)

Rumi has lots of it too: Die in/with this love...

RE: Random Bodily Jolts...
Answer
12/22/19 6:37 AM as a reply to Bardo.
Good, neutral or bad Kundalini symptoms? (I'm simplifying, of course.) I have had some experience with many different kinds of them. It doesn't sound like they are too overwhelming, but I thought I'd just check that you're okay. 

RE: Random Bodily Jolts...
Answer
12/22/19 8:00 AM as a reply to Siavash.
Yes, I like these cross-religious terms. It makes for a more unified journey, that we're all venturing the same territory. It's a really nice observation. Even better when you find you can suddenly intuit other religious teachings. :-)

RE: Random Bodily Jolts...
Answer
12/22/19 8:29 AM as a reply to Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö.
Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö:
Good, neutral or bad Kundalini symptoms? (I'm simplifying, of course.) I have had some experience with many different kinds of them. It doesn't sound like they are too overwhelming, but I thought I'd just check that you're okay. 

Thank you, Linda. It's very kind of you to give your attention in this way.

For the most part I've managed to phase the symptoms into the background but occasionally the energy movement is so forceful it becomes uncomfortable and often overwhelming. When this happens it is mostly pulsating up my back and into my head. The uncomfortable part is in the head. All sorts of things occur like throbbing head, the sense that something is trying to push its way out, losing the sense of my body (I work a lot with the body so when I can't get into the body it causes me some discomfort. I don't like being stuck in the head) odd perceptual changes, jaw aches, various facial twitches, old emotions, other-worldy feelings... the list is quite long really but just to summarize, it's only uncomfortable when the energy is powering up my back and through into my head. 

RE: Random Bodily Jolts...
Answer
12/22/19 8:43 AM as a reply to Bardo.
I'm pretty sure that book is "A Path With Heart" that I mentioned earlier. Also all these movements I believe are a good sign of progress. I would be asking some quick questions during practice like what self is there to be uncomfortable or what self is there to be in pain. This is a great time in practice to recognize the three characteristics over and over again. 

RE: Random Bodily Jolts...
Answer
12/22/19 10:57 AM as a reply to Bardo.
Bardo Cruiser:
Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö:
Good, neutral or bad Kundalini symptoms? (I'm simplifying, of course.) I have had some experience with many different kinds of them. It doesn't sound like they are too overwhelming, but I thought I'd just check that you're okay. 

Thank you, Linda. It's very kind of you to give your attention in this way.

For the most part I've managed to phase the symptoms into the background but occasionally the energy movement is so forceful it becomes uncomfortable and often overwhelming. When this happens it is mostly pulsating up my back and into my head. The uncomfortable part is in the head. All sorts of things occur like throbbing head, the sense that something is trying to push its way out, losing the sense of my body (I work a lot with the body so when I can't get into the body it causes me some discomfort. I don't like being stuck in the head) odd perceptual changes, jaw aches, various facial twitches, old emotions, other-worldy feelings... the list is quite long really but just to summarize, it's only uncomfortable when the energy is powering up my back and through into my head. 
I see. I find that the tricky thing can be to know when to stabilize and get grounded (which may prevent too much of a build up) and when to do the opposite. Once it is throbbing its way through the head, already inside it, I find that it is helpful to let go of solidness and realize that there is nothing there to keep the energy from flowing freely. The body isn't a bottle with a cork plug that can "pop". The passage is free, unless we make us a plug out of fear of popping. At least that's how I approach it. But even though there is a free passage, it is still not a good idea to shake the bottle too fiercely, so to speak. Yet, when it wants to get out, remember that it is open. If it feels closed, building up pressure, remember that's a fear-based illusion. If it is persistent, maybe imagine open carefully like when you open a bottle of sparkling water that has been through a rough ride. 

Walking barefoot in the soil might help too. Or just lying down and letting energies move around, surrendering to it and trusting that it knows what it's doing, without actively encouraging it.

RE: Random Bodily Jolts...
Answer
12/22/19 2:08 PM as a reply to Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö.
Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö:
I find that it is helpful to let go of solidness and realize that there is nothing there to keep the energy from flowing freely. The body isn't a bottle with a cork plug that can "pop". The passage is free, unless we make us a plug out of fear of popping. :

Nice! I like this view. Sometimes I think paracetamol will help. It never does! :-)

RE: Random Bodily Jolts...
Answer
12/22/19 2:10 PM as a reply to Dustin.
Dustin:
I'm pretty sure that book is "A Path With Heart" that I mentioned earlier. Also all these movements I believe are a good sign of progress. I would be asking some quick questions during practice like what self is there to be uncomfortable or what self is there to be in pain. This is a great time in practice to recognize the three characteristics over and over again. 

How are they defined as being a good sign of progress?     

I'll try to track the book down. Might be a PDF online somewhere. Thanks.

RE: Random Bodily Jolts...
Answer
12/22/19 2:15 PM as a reply to Bardo.
Bardo Cruiser:
Dustin:
I'm pretty sure that book is "A Path With Heart" that I mentioned earlier. Also all these movements I believe are a good sign of progress. I would be asking some quick questions during practice like what self is there to be uncomfortable or what self is there to be in pain. This is a great time in practice to recognize the three characteristics over and over again. 

How are they defined as being a good sign of progress?     

I'll try to track the book down. Might be a PDF online somewhere. Thanks.


Shinzen gives here a framework for explaining these kriyas, and also gives some guidelines on how to work with it.

Kriyas and Complete Experiences

And:

Kriyas and the Cloud of Unknowing

RE: Random Bodily Jolts...
Answer
12/22/19 2:23 PM as a reply to Bardo.
Honestly, I don't think they are a sign of progress. It seems to be more the case of purification happening than anything else. For some people this happens a lot, for others not so much, and that doesn't say anything about attainments. 

I'm glad you found my approach helpful. Last time I told someone about it I was accused of trying to lead them into chaos magick. As if it were more magickal to think of the body as not solid compared to the opposite.

RE: Random Bodily Jolts...
Answer
12/22/19 2:33 PM as a reply to Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö.
Yes, I've had similar responses when sharing spiritual stuff with people. It turned out to be a kind of magick as they never spoke to me again and thus disappeared. emoticon

RE: Random Bodily Jolts...
Answer
12/22/19 2:48 PM as a reply to Siavash.
Thanks. That first video mentions a purification precisely what Linda shared. Also, I'm noticing core beliefs rising up in my mind. This has been happening for a few weeks now. I seem to be picking them off with mindfulness. They rise up as sensations like how he describes in the video. Interesting. 

RE: Random Bodily Jolts...
Answer
12/22/19 2:52 PM as a reply to Bardo.
Bardo Cruiser:
Thanks. That first video mentions a purification precisely what Linda shared. Also, I'm noticing core beliefs rising up in my mind. This has been happening for a few weeks now. I seem to be picking them off with mindfulness. They rise up as sensations like how he describes in the video. Interesting. 


Yes, also Culadasa uses the term purification for those (also it's described as some manifestation of piti, but again related to purification). In stages 4 and 7 of his system/book/TMI, these purifications are addressed. (And in the interlude before stage 7 in that book)

RE: Random Bodily Jolts...
Answer
12/22/19 3:01 PM as a reply to Bardo.
Bardo Cruiser:
Thanks. That first video mentions a purification precisely what Linda shared. Also, I'm noticing core beliefs rising up in my mind. This has been happening for a few weeks now. I seem to be picking them off with mindfulness. They rise up as sensations like how he describes in the video. Interesting. 

Interesting. Do you think those core beliefs are what has currently been blocking your development, and that the kriyas have been dealing with those "blockages"?

 

RE: Random Bodily Jolts...
Answer
12/22/19 3:02 PM as a reply to Bardo.
Bardo Cruiser:
Yes, I've had similar responses when sharing spiritual stuff with people. It turned out to be a kind of magick as they never spoke to me again and thus disappeared. emoticon


That's their loss. 

RE: Random Bodily Jolts...
Answer
12/22/19 3:40 PM as a reply to Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö.
Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö:
Bardo Cruiser:
Thanks. That first video mentions a purification precisely what Linda shared. Also, I'm noticing core beliefs rising up in my mind. This has been happening for a few weeks now. I seem to be picking them off with mindfulness. They rise up as sensations like how he describes in the video. Interesting. 

Interesting. Do you think those core beliefs are what has currently been blocking your development, and that the kriyas have been dealing with those "blockages"?

 

Possibly. I made the connection with the Shinzen Young video in which he describes how kriyas could be related to deep causal grooves in the mind and then I remembered the core beliefs rising up in me. They're all destructive beliefs about my view of myself and the world. They have nowhere to go. My thoughts can no longer attach to these beliefs so perhaps they are being released through these sudden bodily movements. It's all very fascinating. 

RE: Random Bodily Jolts...
Answer
12/22/19 4:12 PM as a reply to Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö.
Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö:
Bardo Cruiser:
Yes, I've had similar responses when sharing spiritual stuff with people. It turned out to be a kind of magick as they never spoke to me again and thus disappeared. emoticon


That's their loss. 
Yes, some people's conceptual world is threatened by listening to another person speaking from beyond concepts. It's fearful for them.